460 Rowland in Blackhawk

[Arisin' Wind]

I was reading some articles about the 460 Rowland and how gunsmiths convert S&W 625s, 25s and Ruger Blackhawks to this super 45 ACP cartridge. Apparently the 460 Rowland operates at around 40,000 CUP. This seems way too high for a 45 caliber cylinder in a S&W to handle - and maybe even a Ruger 45 cylinder. Is this a safe conversion? If so, why can't 45 Colt S&W 625s, 25s, and Blackhawks be loaded to 40,000 CUP?

Something just doesn't seem right.

 

[Lee Martin]

I wouldn't do a 460 on an S&W. That pressure is a tad high for a N-frame with 45-cal holes in it. Even on a Blackhawk you're pushing things in a six-shot configuration. So yes, I agree with you.

 

[CraigC]

Clark Custom says it's safe and they convert both N-frames and Blackhawks to the .460. I don't like the idea for either gun but especially the N-frame. We're talking about 4000psi higher pressures than the .44Mag with larger holes. Or 8000psi higher than "Ruger only" loads in Blackhawks. Although I do understand that the .460 will have slightly tighter chambers than factory .45Colt's. Still makes me uneasy.

 

[Lee Martin]

It probably works but again it doesn't have the margin of safety I'm accustomed to.

 

[Arisin' Wind]

That's what I was thinking too. Seems like the margin of safety just isn't there.

 

[s4s4u]

Not sure why go to the trouble. The 45 Colt will outperform the 460 Rowland.

 

[Silent Sam]

Exactly, at lower pressure, so why bother. The heaviest Rowland load is low end 44 mag power. It was designed to get that power in a 1911 platform. It makes no sense in a revolver.

 

[Revolver-Time]

Exactly, at lower pressure, so why bother. The heaviest Rowland load is low end 44 mag power. It was designed to get that power in a 1911 platform. It makes no sense in a revolver.

Besides meeting the historical need does your theory mean that the 45 ACP, 9mm, 10mm, 40S&W make no sense in a revolver? I like that on days I don't feel like chasing my brass I can just eject them out of my revolvers.

 

[Laserbait]

I think he means: Is it worth the trouble of of possibly damaging the firearm/yourself/others, just to get performance of the 460 Rowland, when the existing 45 Colt chambering already can already exceed that safely?

I would say not...



The 9mm/40S&W/10mm/45ACP would not be above what are considered safe pressure levels for a Blackhawk, so I'm sure those weren't included in the worthiness discussion.

 

[M'BOGO]

Exactly, at lower pressure, so why bother. The heaviest Rowland load is low end 44 mag power. It was designed to get that power in a 1911 platform. It makes no sense in a revolver.

Besides meeting the historical need does your theory mean that the 45 ACP, 9mm, 10mm, 40S&W make no sense in a revolver? I like that on days I don't feel like chasing my brass I can just eject them out of my revolvers.

It's not like you can get white box .460 Rowland at the Mega-LO-Mart for blasting, like you can with 45 ACP, 9mm, and 40S&W.

Maybe 460 Rowland in a five shot custom(?). Other than it being an excersize in something nobody else on the block has, it falls into the what is the question that this is the answer to catagory.

In a standard sized duty type pistol, it makes sense. Almost a .44 mag (almost because you cannot load heavy slugs), in a conventional sized frame, with 8 to 15 rounds in the mag.

 

[s4s4u]

It's not like you can get white box .460 Rowland at the Mega-LO-Mart for blasting, like you can with 45 ACP, 9mm, and 40S&W.

Exactly. You will have to load the Rowland yourself or pay a buck a pop from Clark's. A handloaded 45 Colt will easily excede anything you can load in the Rowland, and at a lower pressure which also makes it more shooter friendly as well.

I can see the 45/45acp because of the cheaper bulk ammo, but that doesn't really apply to the Rowland, IMO.

 

[Knuckles]

Twas my original understanding that the 460Rowland was aimed at auto-Loaders (1911's and such)... maybe they found a "niche audience" of multi-gun folks wanting to screw around with the 460 in there revolvers too... I don't know, you got me??? :?

 

[s4s4u]

I don't know, you got me???

Yea, I got a couple things myself that don't make logical sense either :wink:

 

[raven5]

Arisin' Wind, I like your avatar. That yours?

I've thought the same as well hearing about those conversions. Now, putting that into an XD or such would be cool.

 

[jpdesign]

This article is about loading .45 auto up to rowland levels for the blackhawk.

http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=41

 

[Lee Martin]

Same reason the 45 Win Mag never flew in a single-action (and United Sporting Arms chambered a few back in the early 80's):

Mine is a convertible and with a 45 Colt cylinder there's little need for the Win Mag (except it's rare and adds to collectibility).

 

[Silent Sam]

Exactly, at lower pressure, so why bother. The heaviest Rowland load is low end 44 mag power. It was designed to get that power in a 1911 platform. It makes no sense in a revolver.

Besides meeting the historical need does your theory mean that the 45 ACP, 9mm, 10mm, 40S&W make no sense in a revolver? I like that on days I don't feel like chasing my brass I can just eject them out of my revolvers.

Wasn't referring to other chamberings other than 460 Rowland. I said it doesn't make sense in a revolver due to pressures and cost. You can load 45 ACP brass to a higher pressure in a Blackhawk than you can in a semiauto. You can also load 45 Colt to do anything the Rowland can do, and more, at lower pressure. There is no advantage to chambering and using 460 Rowland brass in a revolver. I have a 460 Rowland kit in a Kimber Target model. I also have a Mech-Tech carbine in 460 Rowland so I do understand the concept and use. I just don't see the point of chambering a revolver in 460 Rowland.

 

[dlhredfoxx]

But a .480 Ruger in a 5 shot... now that get's the old juices flowing! I think Ruger did that once? But pulled the cord too quickly...

Heaven would be a 5 Shot 475 Linebaugh in a factory Ruger large frame Vaquero... oh what could have been!

 

[Arisin' Wind]

Well, the bottom line is I still can't see a 460 Rowland in a Blackhawk or S&W as being safe. That 40,000CUP seems a little too high. Especially for the S&W.

 

[Arisin' Wind]

Arisin' Wind, I like your avatar. That yours?

I've thought the same as well hearing about those conversions. Now, putting that into an XD or such would be cool.

Raven5 - Yes, that's my 454 Redhawk using a Super Redhawk cylinder.