45 colt pressures explained?

[triker]

Can someone tell me the pressure levels for Ruger Blackhawks? I see 14,000, 20,000, and upwards of 25,000. I understand the medium frame has lower pressure level, but is it 14,000 or 20,000? I have a Lipsey flattop, and a large frame Williams Shooters Blackhawk, that can stand higher pressures. I don't plan on high level loads in either, but would like to know where the medium frame falls, 14,000 or 20,000? What amount of unique or universal will max out at those pressures? thx triker

 

[Tellico]

This may help.
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL%20246partial.pdf
The mid frame is good for table 2 loads. Large frame table 3 loads
Fred

 

[Rclark]

As stated above the flattop .45s and New Vaquero (the same medium frames) are good for Tier 2 loads as defined above in referenced article. The Large Frame BH is good for Tier 3. I stay within tier 2 for both medium and large frame revolvers as I am not into 'hot' loads. With the introduction of the .45ACP on the medium frame, the ceiling is lifted from 20K psi to 23K psi for Tier 2 loads (.45 ACP +P) . Not that it matters all that much . Read the article above... Should set your mind at ease.

 

[triker]

Wish I had that issue magazine. I started taking it, but after that issue. Pain to try and read from web, but I did. thx triker

 

[Bud0505]

Wish I had that issue magazine. I started taking it, but after that issue. Pain to try and read from web, but I did. thx triker

Check their website and you can probably order a copy for around $10.00 shipped. I bought the December 2011 issue with Brian Pierce's article on loading for the Lipsey's Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt through their website.

 

[triker]

Bud0505, I would like to have that issue also as I also have a Lipsey convertible. triker

 

[Rick Courtright]

Can someone tell me the pressure levels for Ruger Blackhawks? I see 14,000, 20,000, and upwards of 25,000.

Hi,

What I'm gonna say won't make me many friends, but will stand you in good stead regarding the longevity of your gun, and perhaps yourself:

The pressure level for a Ruger Blackhawk is determined by the manufacturer of the gun, NOT somebody writing a magazine article, or developing loads that are deemed "safe" because they haven't blown up the gun, yet. If you read your owners manual, Ruger will tell you something along the lines of "This firearm is designed for use of factory ammunition loaded to industry standard pressures." Wording might be a bit different, but the point is clear: "Shoot factory ammo, loaded to SAAMI specs, and you should get the service from this firearm we designed it to deliver."

Now comes the fun. If you keep your handloads to SAAMI spec (that means the 14kpsi figure in .45 Colt), you should have no worries. But if you load to higher pressures, will you have problems? It's hard to say! SOME firearms may well shoot considerably higher pressure loads for a long time w/ no apparent damage. The problem is "catastrophic" failures aren't all that common compared to the extra wear and tear of shooting hotter ammo than the factory specs. I used to have a display case full of broken shotguns and bits when I ran a trap and skeet range. Many of these failures happened using standard, even factory loaded, ammo. However, most of those guns HAD been subjected to what we affectionately called "buffalo loads" for quite some time. The damage wasn't apparent, and the failures often seemed out of place. But deep down they weren't! The damage was cumulative and finally caught up w/ 'em.

Another issue is when the factory tells us what pressure level to use, we can be assured they've built the gun w/ adequate safety margins to handle that type of ammo but nothing more. What we don't know is how much EXTRA margin they build in, nor what line changes are made in production which MAY alter it, unseen or unknown, meaning, for example, perhaps one run can consistently handle a 100% overload, while the next has a different steel or heat treatment which only allows a 50% overload. Both guns quite likely will look the same! AND they both meet factory spec! How are we to know which is which?

So, once you exceed what the factory tells you their gun is good for, you've chosen to take things into your own hands. That magazine writer's not gonna buy you a new gun if you ruin yours following his advice. Nor is the author of the loading manual going to do anything except point to the boilerplate page describing the risks of handloading. You'll be lucky to get a "sorry about that" from either!

The choice is yours, but for myself, I figure if factory ballistics aren't enough, it's time to get a bigger gun! A .454 Casull, .480 Ruger or .460 S&W are all designed for much higher pressure ammo than the .45 Colt, yet one can drop back down and shoot the .45 Colt in any of them. Safely. Even if it's loaded to hotter specs per some books. But we can't say FOR SURE that anything over SAAMI spec for the particular gun/cartridge combo is acceptable for any length of time, even though we all probably "know a guy" who's gotten away w/ it for years.

Which means you take all the risk yourself. Ask yourself, what's your budget for new stuff if you break something, and what's your risk tolerance? Mine's low in both departments. Some folks are at the other end of the spectrum in one or both... and they'll certainly jump in to tell me how wrong I am. So be it.

Rick C

 

[Rclark]

and they'll certainly jump in to tell me how wrong I am. So be it.

Ok! Your wrong. Hah! LOL .

That said, Linebaugh did extensive testing on the Large Frame .45 Colt BH (with guns actually being tested to failure) to bring us the Ruger Only Loads that are now universally accepted (They are found in most every reloading manual I have). We know that is true.... Right? We also know these loads have been used for years and years without anyone having any 'problems' ... Right? Therefore one can conclude that the loads are safe in the 'right' revolvers. At least that is my conclusion. Now, do I, in general, load these 'hot' loads? No. I don't need the power. Would I if needed? You bet! With no qualms to work up a load. So we are good to go!

As for the medium frames, you could argue the point there a bit as they are newer.... But on the other hand Ruger has ok'ed the the medium frames for .45 ACP which is in the 23K-24K range for +P. That seems to give one a 'comfortable' margin well above 14K of SAAMI .45 Colt . Brian Pearce and others seem to concur. Of course Ruger can't tell us, as all they can say is 'it will handle any SAAMI .45 Colt load' as there is NO '+P' standard for .45 Colt. What else could they say and stay comfortable behind their product? Now, do I push them to 24K (and how would I know when I got there)? Of course not. My loads (I assume of course) are in the sub 20K range (Actually not much above 14K I bet) which is plenty for my purposes. I am sure my .45s and .44s will outlast me and my kids when they get their mitts on them.

A .454 Casull, .480 Ruger or .460 S&W are all designed for much higher pressure

Yep ... and they are larger/heavier revolvers too... Point is. IF you can 'push' .45 Colt a bit further in a smaller package, you have a 'win-win' situation. Most situations you aren't going to need the 65,000psi stopping power of the .454 when 30,000psi ROL will do.... or less than 20K psi for my purposes.

Agree here with Rick ... The choice is yours/mine.... As it should be. Be 'informed', read all you can, use some common sense and you won't be taking chances... IMHO. Where Rick is quite conservative, I am probably nearer the middle of the spectrum.... I don't push hard against the upper boundaries as there is no need. Get a bigger gun if you need to 'really' push. That too I agree with.