.45 ACP for Revolver Loads?

[Rclark]

Not that I'll be shooting a lot of .45 ACP, but now that I do have two convertibles, I wonder what works well for you guys out there as a good starting place for me to work up some loads. I do have some 230g plated bullets to work with at the moment. Note that these loads will never be put in a semi-auto, so can be loaded up and down.

I've tried 6.1g of W231 pushing a 200g XTP bullet, but it has a large 103fps spread (23 shots) and of course shoots low.

Looking for loads that are around 900-1000fps for 230g (is there a 250g?) just like my normal 250-255g .45 Colt loads. Hoping to eventually find a load that matches up well, so I don't have to move the sights (or use much Kentucky windage) when occasionally using the .45 ACP cylinder.

 

[Snake45]

Try 5.3 of your 231 with 230 grain bullet. It MIGHT work with 250 grainer, too.

 

[WIL TERRY]

HHmmmmm.....both of my RUGER 3-SCREW 45/45 convertibles, a 4 5/8" and a 7 1/2" , put 45ACP 200GR 452460 SWC 975fps handloads in the same group as their favorite 45COLT-260GR 454424-1075fps loads. After sighting in in 1972 I've never had to adjust the sights on either pistol.
Now that I think about this some more, the same loads also do the same in my COLT 4 3/4" 45/45ACP convertible.
NO...I will not put the loads on the internet as No one seems the least interested in correctly working up loads for THEIR guns anymore. I will note the two cartridges used UNIQUE and 2400 respectively. NO OTHER PROPELLENT has proved their equal since then.
And so it goes..

 

[Rclark]

Thanks guys... I do like Unique so maybe I'll start there. But keep the information flowing .

Also, if some one could clear this up for me.... Some times I read .451 bullets other times I read .452 bullets work. So can I use both? I've been using .451. What about the expander die? Also I read some using 255g SWC .452.... But that doesn't seem like leaving much room for powder.... Anyway, just trying to get a feel for this cartridge .

No one seems the least interested in correctly working up loads for THEIR guns anymore.

Oh, I am ... but I do like to start with a load that works well for someone else and start there. Why kick experience in the face so to speak . May or may not work, but it's a starting place and may save some time (and money) .

 

[G2]

I fit this shortie w/ a 45acp cylinder,

230 Xtreme bullet, 9.0 grains of Power Pistol, 2.5 Remington Primer.

I found 500 Starline 45 Super cases and they are for Ruger Revolver 45 acp ONLY....
The short 45acp case sure works way-mo-better to eject with the short ER.

 

[Rclark]

First Unique results are in.

6.0g Unique, 230g HP Plated, CCI-300 : 929 Avg, 14 Std, 45 Spread (25 shots) . Shot 30 but discounted 5 as they were 'obviously' not right as they were in the low 800fps range. I am shooting mixed field brass....


Not bad. Not bad... Going to try 6.5g next. See if it brings down the POI a little bit and get on the high side of 950fps...

 

[anachronism]

You can use 45 Colt bullets if you want, and 45 Auto-Rim loads.

 

[Rclark]

6.5g Unique, 230g HP Plated, CCI-300 : 965 Avg, 19 Std, 65 Spread (25 shots) . 28 fired but 3 shots discounted for way low and high. Better. Now I'll do a full box for accuracy testing.

One thing... I think the cylinder throats are a bit tight. I notice sometimes it is hard to insert a shell to get it to seat fully. When I popped out the shell the bullet side showed scrape marks.... Sometimes I have to pick another chamber. A .451 Pin Gauge will go through but not a .452. Just wondering what you guys think?

 

[anachronism]

If you're happy with the accuracy, You might not want to make any changes. Since I shoot cast bullets almost exclusively, I'd have the throats opened up a bit. The auto rim loads I mentioned include heavier bullets if you're interested.

 

[Rclark]

reamed 'em out at lunch time today.... The 'other' forum resident gunsmith also recommended it. So .... we are .452 now. See how it goes now .

Thanks for the auto rim tip. I'll look into it.

 

[Rodfac]

rclark...6.1 gr of 231 sounds like a very hot load in .45 acp...I'd check the hodgen site for they're recommended max...

In my guns, 1911's, a convertible .45 SAA Colt, and a S&W 1955 Target M-25 revolver, 5.3 gr with any good 200 gr twc is a fantastic load...chrono's at 870 fps from the 6-1/2" S&W.

Rod

 

[mattsbox99]

FWIW, Sierra No. 5 has a section dedicated to revolver loads in the .45 ACP. They are stout and NOT for any kind of semi auto.

 

[444thumper]

On the subject of Auto Rim loads, I assume the reference was to the actual load data. The AR cases won't work in the Ruger guns. The rim is too thick and the cylinder won't turn unless you face off the back of the cylinder. Found that out the hard way, like most of my lessons. :roll:

 

[Rclark]

rclark...6.1 gr of 231 sounds like a very hot load in .45 acp

That is actually middle load in the Hornady manual for the 200g XTP bullet. Range is 5.8 to 6.3. Seemed rather mild in the revolver . My chrono read 931fps from 5 1/2" barrel. All my .45ACP loads will be shot from a revolver.

 

[dougader]

As Matt stated above, Sierra actually has a separate loading section for 45 auto revolver, and it warns against using the data for semi-auto handguns.

230 grain Sierra jhp/5.3 - 7.6 grains Unique for 900 - 1100 fps w/ 7.5" bbl.

240 gr Sierra jhp/6.1 - 7.0 gr Unqiue for 900 - 1100 fps.

Talking about hot, I would definitely start low, and carefully work my way up to the Power Pistol load listed above. Especially since your revolver is built on the medium frame, and G2's Vaquero is built on the large frame Ruger.

FWIW, Hornady lists 7.6 grains Power Pistol as max with their 230 grain xtp bullet. Sierra lists 8.2 gr PP as max with their 230 grain bullet in their Revolver Only section and 7.3 gr PP as max in their semi-auto data.

 

[gerryb158]

Oh well. I don't really understand the logic or the reason for loading the .45 ACP for "revolver only" use. Sierra may recommend it and you may be "sure" the revolver only loads will never find their way into an old "auto" pistol. But someday, sometime, somewhere, somehow one of them "just might" end up in the wrong gun. It would be sort of like winning the lottery. Gerry

 

[Dale53]

There IS a way to insure that your revolver only loads in your particular Ruger Single Action (chambered in .45 ACP).

I have a Bisley SS .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible. This, of course, is the full size frame.

Now, in MY particular revolver, .45 Cowboy Special brass works just fine. The headspace is correct and the rim thickness is the same as .45 Colt brass but the case is the same length and has the same capacity as the .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim.

http://www.cowboy45special.com/cowboy45brass.html

I can load revolver only loads in this brass and it will NOT function in an auto due to the rim.

Another way is use the .45 ACP brass but seat too long for the auto (I often use the NOE Clone of the Lyman 454424 250 gr Keith bullet ROLL CRIMPED in .45 ACP cases in my Ruger convertible with the ACP cylinder. These will NOT chamber in my .45 ACP 1911's.

More than one way to skin a cat...

NOTE:
Before ordering out a bunch of the .45 Cowboy Special, make sure that they headspace properly in YOUR particular revolver cylinder (I only have one revolver to check them in - YMMV).

Dale53

 

[Rclark]

Gerry, I see no reason why not. Loading for just '.45 Auto' is rather limiting, but for revolver, I can load heavier bullets, different shaped bullets, go faster, go slower in the cartridge. Opens up a whole new use for the cartridge.... And it is fun .

 

[Chief_10Beers]

Gerry, I see no reason why not. Loading for just '.45 Auto' is rather limiting, but for revolver, I can load heavier bullets, different shaped bullets, go faster, go slower in the cartridge. Opens up a whole new use for the cartridge.... And it is fun .

I'm wondering how much hotter you can load the 45ACP in our 45 FT? I sure wished that Hodgdon and Lyman would have had the recipies for the 45 Convertible :? ......................................

 

[Dale53]

Chief;
I would suggest not going over 900 fps or so, using Unique
behind a 250 gr Keith. In my large frame Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible I get just over 900 fps with 7.0 grs. Elmer Keith loaded 7.5 for years (in the "N" frame Smith's) but I am happy to stop at 7.0 even tho' I could probably safely load more (the new Unique is reputed to be a bit hotter than the "old").

At any rate, I will use my .45 Colt cylinder for the heavy loads with .45 Colt cases.

The Flattop should be limited (with both cylinders) to no more than 20,000 lb psi according to Brian Pearce. I have great respect for his suggestions and have NO desire to exceed his loads. His article on the RCBS .45-270-SAA Keith style bullet has loads of three levels detailed (Handloader April-May 2007). If you go to Wolfe's Publishing and take a look at back issues, you can download that article in a sample of that issue. It was published before the Flattops were produced but his assessment of the similar frame of the New Vaquero puts in the 20,000 psi class. I believe that is where I would put the new Flattop (same as the New Vaquero).

Dale53

 

[Rclark]

behind a 250 gr Keith. In my large frame Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible I get just over 900 fps with 7.0 grs. Elmer Keith loaded 7.5 for year

Is this in .45ACP??? Reason I ask is I loaded 5.6g of Unique pushing 250g RNFP in .45 ACP and got 927fps from 5 1/2" barrel. Now my chrono may be registering a bit high (find out tomorrow when another shooter brings his chrono out), but 7.0g and 7.5g seems a bit much?

. I believe that is where I would put the new Flattop (same as the New Vaquero).

Yes, same. Cylinders are exactly the same. Tier 2 velocities range from 945 to 1093fps in the different loads for 280g bullets. For example 10g of Unique is max, 18g of 2400, 13.5 HS-6.... plenty of power in tier 2!

 

[Dale53]

I know many who have loaded this. I got my information from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook:

I use .45 Auto Rim cases in my 625-6 and 625-8 S&W revolvers and use .45 ACP or .45 Cowboy Special cases in my .45 ACP cylinder on my convertible. I ROLL CRIMP for all in the crimp groove provided in the cast bullet. This is NOT what I would consider a "hot" load. I would not shoot it in my 1911's as it would have to be seated to deep (thereby raising pressures considerably) and would batter the 1911 because of the heavier bullet. It is a revolver load. I also would NOT run this in the 1917 revolvers as they were KNOWN to be a bit soft (cylinders were not heat treated). Thousands were shot through the 1917's but Skeeter Skelton split a cylinder in his 1917 with the 7.5 gr load, I believe.

My convertible has had both cylinders reamed to accept .452" bullets (cylinder throats reamed to .4525" by me with a proper, piloted reamer).

FWIW
Dale53

 

[Rclark]

Thanks Dale. Just making sure we were talking same cartridge . My cylinders on both my convertible flattops (medium frame) have also been reamed to .4525. Well, the blued convertible .45ACP was already at .452. So 3 of 4 needed treatment! BTW can't roll crimp the ACP as it head spaces on the case mouth, so don't want to get to 'hot' .

 

[Dale53]

Thanks Dale. BTW can't roll crimp the ACP as it head spaces on the case mouth, so don't want to get to 'hot' .

You might want to try those .45 Cowboy Special cases. They have the same rim as the .45 Colt but case length and capacity of the .45 ACP. You can safely roll crimp those in the .45 ACP convertible cylinder. Since I have not tried those Cowboy cases in other than my own revolver, I suggest you try one or two before you order out a bunch. It is possible that the headspace might vary a bit from revolver to revolver....

Just a thought...

Dale53

 

[Rclark]

I tried to find the thread I created about big vs small flash holes ... but couldn't find it to post this in. Anway I had three primer burn through on three of the fedral cases non of my other .45 ACP cases are seeing the problem.... So my suspicion is the flash hole. Note my load is 4.5g of TB under 200g bullet... a mild load.

Normal flash hole on left, over size on the right
pin hole in right primer.

Looks like flash hole does make a difference!

 

[Dale53]

When I first received my Ruger SS Bisley .45 colt/.45 Convertible, I couldn't chamber any of my .45 ACP loads (cast 200 gr SWC sized at .452"). The cylinder throats were too small on both my .45 Colt and the ACP cylinder.

I reamed both cylinders to .4525" and all of the problems went away. I shoot NOTHING but cast in either cartridge and both calibers shoot extremely well.

If you want to shoot heavy bullets in the .45 ACP cylinders, see if you can get a sample .45 Cowboy Special to try. They work just fine in my .45 ACP cylinder and since they headspace on the rim (same rim dimensions as the .45 Colt) then you can easily roll crimp them. They work just fine in my revolver but suggest you try one in yours, first, before ordering out several hundred cases. I regularly shoot the 454424 (250 Keith SWC) in .45 Cowboy Special cases and crimp them with a good roll crimp. 7.0 grs of Unique gives me just over 900 fps.

This is not necessarily a recommendation, but rather a description of what I do.

Dale53

 

[wickerbill]

I shoot the same load in my blackhawk as I do in my 1911. 6.0 grs of 231 with a 230 gr LTC. Works good.
Bill