44 special loads using HP38

[opos]

I just picked up a Lipsey's Flat Top 44 special and will be loading for it. I am a fairly new reloader but am now loading 38 special, 357, and .45 acp and getting along great with the help and input from many folks. Using a single stage press and to date I'm using HP38 for all of the calibers and like the way it feeds in the measure, etc. I have Speer, Lyman, Hodgden, Hornady and Lee manuals.

I don't want to make a baby .44 mag out of this gun....I've been told that loads developing about 900-950 fps are nice loads. I am wondering what "moderate" loads anyone might have done up using HP38 or Win 231 with a relatively available hard cast bullet? I won't be casting at this time so will need to find a bullet (thinking along the lines of a 200 grain SWC). I am sure there are other powders that might be preferred by many folks but if possible I'd like to stick with the HP38 for now. I see Hodgden has some loads listed and have noticed that many of their loads are really on the low velocity side...almost to the point of being like a squib load in some cases...again, don't want a baby 44 mag but something in a nice shooting, accurate moderate load..any help appreciated.

 

[UnderDawgAl]

Hi there. I'm new to the 44 Spl, as well. I've had some good groups using 5.7-5.8 grains HP38 with 214-gr SWCs.

There are more experienced folks here who will probably offer up other loads.

 

[Hammerdown77]

Check out this post with a scan of some of Brian Pearce's recommended loads in Handloader. He lists 6.0 grains of 231 (HP38) with a soft 250 gr. Keith bullet. I have not tried that particular load yet, but I've never had one of his recommendations not shoot well, so I'd be confident in its performance.

I'd recommend using a 240 gr. or 250 gr. bullet, unless you have issues with not having a tall enough front sight and the gun shoots high. Mine seems to shoot better with the heavier bullets, the exception being 200 gr. XTP, which shoot phenomenally well in my gun.

The best loads I've found so far in my gun using a 240 to 250 lead bullet are the Skeeter load of 7.5 grains of Unique (or the same charge using Universal Clays), or 8.5 to 9 grains of Power Pistol. The Power Pistol load is really accurate and does 1075 fps avg. out of my gun, but is soft enough to shoot all day.

http://rugerforum.net/reloading/24926-back-issue-handloader-magazine-july-2009-260-a.html

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Hi there. I'm new to the 44 Spl, as well. I've had some good groups using 5.7-5.8 grains HP38 with 214-gr SWCs.

There are more experienced folks here who will probably offer up other loads.

Oh I don't know... That one sounds pretty good to me, too.

I do 5.8gr under a 240gr LSWC I get from a local caster for a nice target load. I love that load, and could shoot it all day.

-- Sam

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Hi there. I'm new to the 44 Spl, as well. I've had some good groups using 5.7-5.8 grains HP38 with 214-gr SWCs.

There are more experienced folks here who will probably offer up other loads.

Oh I don't know... That one sounds pretty good to me, too.

I do 5.8gr under a 240gr LSWC I get from a local caster for a nice target load. I love that load, and could shoot it all day.

-- Sam

I do the same with 5.8gr of HP-38 and either a 240gr SWC or 200gr LRN cowboy bullet. Both shoot great. But I most often shoot the 5.8gr of HP-38 with a 240gr Rainier copper plated bullet.

...Jimbo

 

[Hammerdown77]

Well, there's another load I'll have to cook up and try...

 

[opos]

Well, the Ruger Forum folks came through again...many thanks...combining what was posted here with what I've accumulated from the loading manuals gives me a nice point to start from...can't wait to get the gun in my hands (it's in the "California 10 day jail")and get to loading...

Again, many thanks to all who chimed in..

 

[M'BOGO]

opos,

Hardcast boolets may not always work so great in that velocity/pressure range. Hang in there if the road gets bumpy.

I know one of the big name companys, speer or hornady has some swaged boolets that may work for your application. If the slug is too hard, it may not bump up at the base, and complicate your fun time. The hard cast slugs are more for the high pressure mags, but sometimes it does work. It depends on the combinations used.

I just fact checked the swaged slugs that were mentioned above, wow prices have gone up. Glad I started casting.

 

[opos]

"The best loads I've found so far in my gun using a 240 to 250 lead bullet are the Skeeter load of 7.5 grains of Unique (or the same charge using Universal Clays), or 8.5 to 9 grains of Power Pistol. The Power Pistol load is really accurate and does 1075 fps avg. out of my gun, but is soft enough to shoot all day."

Not being familiar with the 44 special and doing some reading on it...the "Skeeter load" keeps coming up with the 7.5 grains of Unique under a 240 SWC boolit. I know I'd asked about the HP38 use but got a question on the "skeeter load"...first, it looks to be fairly hot but probably not an issue for the Flat Top Ruger....but is the load heavy enough to shorten the life of the pistol if used a lot? Also I got a bit of arthritis and don't want to aggravate it...is the "Skeeter load" reasonable recoil"? I shoot moderate loads in my 357 GP100 all day long with no issues...seem about like factory loaded 357 loads in terms of recoil....how would the 44 Skeeter load compare to that kind of recoil?

Reason I'm asking is that the guy that I'm getting the gun from offered up a 100 round batch of the "Skeeter loads" to go along with the gun...He's a long time and very careful loader so my concern isn't with his loads (would be very concerned if an "unknown loader") but just with the whole idea of the 950 fps 240grain load.

Thanks

 

[Hammerdown77]

Your gun can shoot that load all day long and not cause a bit of damage. Perfectly safe and reasonable pressures. It may seem "hot", until you consider that the gun is also capable of handling the Elmer Keith load at 1200 fps all day long, too. THAT one's "hot".

The Skeeter load is very easy to shoot. The gun rolls back in the hand a bit, so it doesn't transmit any of the shock of recoil to your joints. You should have no problem shooting that one all day.

The Power Pistol load is also easy to shoot, but moves about 100 fps faster. Power Pistol operates at pretty low pressures, considering the velocities it produces.

The standard .44 Special SAAMI pressure limits are meaningless in modern day firearms. The Ruger especially can digest hotter loads with ease.

 

[M'BOGO]

As a general rule do no break SAAMI guidelines. The .44 Special is rated in the same ballpark as the .45 Colt, because it is chambered in some old pistols, without hardened cylinders, made of questionable alloys. The Skeeter load, was Elmer Keiths "gallery load", and it was developed in the time of the first generation of the SAA. The .44 Spec Blackhawk has a larger (slightly) cylinder than the SAA, and is made of good quality modern steel, thus more material over the bolt notches.

In Handloader 236, Aug/Sept 2005, Brian Pearce had an in depth article dedicated to the .44 Spec. It was broken down by pressure ceilings, and pistol strength. In the middle bracket (22,000 psi) the 250 Keith with 8.5 grains of Unique was the limit for that powder/bullet combination. The Ruger .44/.357 (before they were factory offered) was listed as one of the safe revolvers with the loads generating 25,000 psi.

Off the top of my head, I'd estimate the Skeeter load as being in the 20,000 psi ballpark, +/-.

The recoil is more of a push, than the snap of the .357. I'm guessing at 158 gr slugs, around 1200 fps as the moderate load?

You don't have to feed it a steady diet of the Skeeter load if you don't like it. Standard velocity loads are in the .45 ACP ballpark, which has never been taken as a joke.

Sorry I don't have any experience with HP 38. I do look forward to hearing about your results.

 

[COR]

I use 7.5grs of W231 (HP38) under a 250gr Keith (Ohaus Mould). It shoots to the same point of aim as my "heavy" load of 16gr 2400 behind the same bullet. I prefer keeping things simple...I like W231 but I still use Unique also. I just use less of it since experimenting with the 231.

I also have a 200grRNFP that I put in front of 6grs of 231 that chugs along at 900fps. Here is where I buy them and at the prices here I can't justify casting my own at this weight.

http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=63&category=5&secondary=12&keywords=

All these loads are safe in your gun. I shoot mine out of a converted 5" OM done by Clements and I also shoot them in the new 44 Specials Ruger has recently done which will probably take a lot more than we can dish out and still stay together. :wink:

 

[opos]

Again...thanks to everyone that has offered up information...I've heard of Missouri Bullet and what I've heard is good...I think our local guy has a very good reputation and after the weekend is over I'm going to stop by his shop and chat with him...The Flat top I got is virtually new and only has 36 total rounds down the pipe. They were all the Skeeter loads and the man I got it from (he loaded them and the 100 rounds I got with the gun) said it was a really accurate load and only a moderate recoil. Just for drill I took 5 random rounds out of the 100 I got and broke them down...they are dead on 7.5 grains..he loads with a Dillon (has 3 of them) and is very particular. I weighed the 5 I broke down for total weight and man they all weighed almost dead on to each other...I'll weigh all the rest and if any even appear to be a bit on the heavy side they will get broken down as well....I trust the guy and am probably being "belt and suspender" cautious but I'm older and sure have plenty of time. The loads I got are all new Starline brass (he loads for other 44 specials as well) with CCI large pistol primers...all look nicely crimped and all neat and tidy.

I ordered up some once fired brass from a nearby supplier so I think I'm off and running..I'll probably use the HP38/W231 load data and start on the conservative side and work it up..always interesting to look at the Hodgden load site and do some comparing....they show a max load at 918fps of 5.6 grains behind a 200 grain cast lead round nose/flat point. I always seem to see the Hodgden data a bit on the conservative side which is just fine considering all the kinds and ages of guns they try to furnish data for. I had a situation with some 38 specials with 130 grain fmj and when I used load data from there....starting near the "beginning load" it almost didn't make it out of the barrel on my GP100...their max was just getting to a really nice and comfortable place....better safe than sorry and I don't blame them.

Again, thanks folks...makes for a nice reply to my questions.

 

[M'BOGO]

In thinking about my earlier post, and estimation of the pressure of the Skeeter load brought another point to mind. There is a run of New Vaquero's (the same frame and cylinder size as the .44 Spc Blackhawk) out that are convertible .45s. The .45 ACP has a SAAMI pressure in the 21,000 psi area, but with thinner walls over the bolt cut on the cylinder.

Just food for thought. Enjoy your new Blackhawk!