40 Cal: P944, Glock or CZ?

[soldernut]

In shopping for my first 40, these three guns seem most to my liking - within my pay grade.

The P944 is on my short list because I'm a fanboy, and I've owned an ultra-reliable (but none-too-accurate early production P89). I've heard that shortly after my P89 was made, Ruger significantly improved their barrels.

The Glock is there because, although I'm not enamored of striker-fired, plastic guns, it's trigger was surprisingly good, sights were good, Gs have a good reputation, and I can afford it.

The CZ is on my list because of it's gorgeous fit-n-finish, the longevity of the "75" design, and the fact that it's one of the most copied designs ever. I'd consider a full-size, the "compact" P-01, or the Rami (which I haven't yet handled). They appear to be a little more costly than the other two, but not by too much.

The Springfield XD is not on my list because I found that backstrap safety to be a royal pain. Didn't care for its mushy trigger, either.

Uses: I want a good, double-duty gun. Home defense is one application. The other is target shooting. It's fun to make a good showing at the range.

Opinions? All are welcome, but I'd especially like to hear from those that have owned and really "pounded on" one or more of the candidates.

The main things I'm looking for are:

1: Reliability & durability

2: Great out-of-the-box accuracy. I don't have the budget (or patience) for fancy gunsmithing

3: Affordable price. I'm afraid the the Sigs and H&Ks are beyond my current means.

Although seeking opinions, I'm also including a poll to maybe simplify things. In the poll, please vote based upon experience - if possible.

Thanks in advance to all.

 

[Anthony Williams]

I totally endorse the P-944.


A.W.

 

[gb6491]

I have limited experience (variety wise) with the .40 cal. pistols. Currently, I have a Glock 27. It's been an outstanding pistol for me; accurate and never misses a beat. Love it's versatility, I've used it with a 9mm conversion barrel for lower cost range time and have a .22 conversion for plinking. I recently added a complete G26 top end for it and plan on getting a .357 SIG barrel in the future.

Speaking of SIG, the only other .40 I've owned was a P229, it's a nice enough gun, but I found I did not shoot it much after buying the Glock and sold it to fund something else.

My only other .40 "hands on" was with a CZ Rami. I shot it quite a bit and like the package.

I voted Glock.

Regards,
Greg

 

[revhigh]

I totally endorse the P-944.


A.W.

You wouldn't know an accurate gun if it came back from the dead, jumped out of the lake, and bit you in the .... well ... you know where !!!

REV

 

[aaronrb204]

I would choose a CZ-75 standard compact. The full size are a bit large for most purposes I think. The P-06 is the .40sw version of the P-01. They both are decockers and have rails. However the decocker triggers are usually far inferior to safety triggers. Versions with safeties can be carried with the hammer down but you have to lower it manually.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

I would choose a CZ-75 standard compact. The full size are a bit large for most purposes I think. The P-06 is the .40sw version of the P-01. They both are decockers and have rails. However the decocker triggers are usually far inferior to safety triggers. Versions with safeties can be carried with the hammer down but you have to lower it manually.

Aaron, you are right about the P-06 being the .40 version of the P-01 and if recoil is a concern than I wouldn't recommend a P-06 as it really does snap pretty damn hard when fired. I do disagree with your assesment that a CZ decocker's trigger is far inferior to a safety model (with both being stock), they are fairly close to the same as far as I have seen.

 

[aaronrb204]

I would choose a CZ-75 standard compact. The full size are a bit large for most purposes I think. The P-06 is the .40sw version of the P-01. They both are decockers and have rails. However the decocker triggers are usually far inferior to safety triggers. Versions with safeties can be carried with the hammer down but you have to lower it manually.

Aaron, you are right about the P-06 being the .40 version of the P-01 and if recoil is a concern than I wouldn't recommend a P-06 as it really does snap pretty damn hard when fired. I do disagree with your assesment that a CZ decocker's trigger is far inferior to a safety model (with both being stock), they are fairly close to the same as far as I have seen.

Cheese, I owned a PCR (father of the P-01) and traded it to get a standard compact. The trigger of the latter was definitely better.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Cheese, I owned a PCR (father of the P-01) and traded it to get a standard compact. The trigger of the latter was definitely better.

Aaron, the P-01 is a newer design even though it looks very much like the compacts but it is somewhat different. I have eight CZ pistols that are based on the CZ75B, three are decockers. The DA and SA pull on each when stock was about the same. The decockers are not as easy to do a trigger job on as the trigger mechs are a bit more complicated. My guess is your PCR being a slightly older model may have had a tougher trigger, the newer models (P-01, SP-01 Tactical) do not.

 

[wixedmords]

Howdy soldernut,

One Sig you may not have considered is the Sig Pro. A fantastic pistol in my opinion. It does have the polymer body, but everything else about it is like the all-metal Sig, except the price. There are quite a few in various forums that have preached about the trigger of the Sig Pro, some like that trigger better than metal Sig's. I'm a fan of the trigger. A Sig 2340 or 2022 is worthy of your consideration, but it will be a bit higher priced than a CZ or Ruger, but not up in the price range of the all-metal Sig's.

How do you feel about Beretta's? It is funny that 25 years ago nearly all the magazine covers were plastered with Beretta's and Glock's. Sig's were pricey and many other pistols weren't as advanced, or finished really, as the Glock's and Beretta's. Since then Beretta's seem to have nearly fallen off the map. Just looking to find out why you haven't mentioned one as you could likely pull one off for a decent price.

We are very fortunate at this time to have so many good choices we didn't have a fee decades back. A P944 is a good choice, but specifically so to reduce recoil. The P944 is an easy, comfortable shooter from my perspective.

I think you are just going to have to get a hand on each of these fine pistols and fire them to decide. These pistols aren't that far apart as they may have been in the past.

 

[Gizmo42]

My choice..

I dont like glocks. Expensive, bulky, clunky, and just dont feel right to me. Never tried a CZ but was considering one before I bought the KP944.

 

[wheelgun1958]

The only 40s I have are a CZ-40P and a S&W 4013. Neither on the poll but work just fine.

 

[soldernut]

Wixiewoods,

Thanks for mentioning the Sig Pro. I wasn't aware of it. I'll add it to my shopping list until it falls off the high end of my budget.

As for Beretta: The only 40 I've seen in stores around here is the Px4 Storm. At first glance it looked, well, interesting. Both the shape of the slide, and the rotating barrel.

When I handled it, it didn't "feel" right; a little topheavy for my liking but, in fairness, it was unloaded. Then I asked the salesman his opinion. "If somebody gave me that gun, I'd give it right back. Wouldn't have one. The Ruger is a better gun."

 

[soldernut]

Wheelgun1958:

Thanks for your reply. I wasn't aware of either the CZ40B or the S&W 4013. I'll look into them.

The 4013 kind of brings back fond memories of a S&W Model 39 I owned years ago. It was in incredibly accurate pistol (9mm), and I loved its looks.

What are typical US prices on those pistols, respectively?

 

[PointNshoot]

for a first gun id start with whatever you shoot best with
Rent a few at your local range and make your own
assessment.....Of your list Id opt for the Glock first personally

 

[Sonnytoo]

memories of a S&W Model 39 I owned years ago. It was in incredibly accurate pistol (9mm), and I loved its looks.
What are typical US prices on those pistols, respectively?

Since you like the smith 39 so much, that explains why you might enjoy the CZ's. They are beautiful; totally impressive in design. My P-01 9mm is ultra-reliable, alloy instead of plastic (if you like that). I paid $460 for this gun from Top Gun.
CZ now has the P07 DUTY in .40 caliber; was featured on the cover of some gun mags. Can be switched back and forth from decocker to manual safety, depending on preference. List is $600. Has a new Omega trigger system that simplifies and makes for a shorter, lighter trigger pull. (My P-01 has a very long pull).
The CZ slide runs INSIDE of the frame for nearly the full-length, unlike most semi's, and feels like greased...whatever. Absolutely the smoothest-riding handgun I've ever handled, and I've handled many. Contributes to their accuracy and reliability.
Sigs are nice; have owned three. Two were P220's in .45 ACP. Too large for me but absolutely accurate and reliable. They have a model 2340 which is used by the DEA. Sigs have always been known for their accuracy, and are ultra-reliable. They have a more compact 9mm model, the SPC 2022 also available.
H&K's are outstanding firearms. They are expensive, which you know. I don't own one, as the bore axis sits too high and they seem rather massive.
Berettas are still worth looking at. My son used one in "the sand" and said it worked in that harsh environment. Very accurate as well.
By selling one or two guns to buy another, I am able to buy any gun that I want...within reason. (less than ~ $1000).
I am presently shopping and will likely buy a Glock model 19 (9mm) for $500 this wkend. By joining GSSF for $35, you can buy one for $425.
I've had eight Glocks over the years; have three at present. Would reco model 27 subcompact for IWB carry and compact model 23 for choices in .40 caliber. Their reputation is well-known. They have always been 100% for me.
It's always fun to look, to check out the specs. Other folks will post different preferences; you can learn from each. Hope you choose one you enjoy. Stay safe.
Sonnytoo

 

[soldernut]

Sonytoo,

I'm replying below, email style,

>Since you like the smith 39 so much, that explains why you might enjoy the CZ's.

[sn] What I loved about the 39 was its accuracy. Years ago I went with some friends to scout out some like pig hunting territory. They both had 30-30 rifles; I had only the 39.

We didn't find either pigs or pig sign but we did have fun doing some plinking. Along the way we encountered a canyon with a small stream in the bottom. Junk was floating down the stream and they started shooting at those cool moving targets.

One was a milk jug. They both shot at it a few times - and missed. Just for grins, I took a shot with the 39. It was about 75 yards. First shot I blew the jug out of the water and up onto the far bank. Second shot I hit it as it came to rest at its high point. Then I let it roll back into the water and and hit it once more. My remaining three shots were all close, but missed.

My buddies couldn't believe their eyes. Lucky shots, for sure. I'm not normally that good. Still, it satisfied me as to the gun's accuracy.

What I didn't like about the 39 was how pissy it was about ammo. If you didn't feed it just the right stuff, it would either jam on feeding - or stovepipe the ejected cases. That's why I got rid of it.

After I took up handloading, I wish I had it back because I'm sure I could work up loads it would like.

>They are beautiful; totally impressive in design. My P-01 9mm is ultra-reliable, alloy instead of plastic (if you like that). I paid $400 for this gun.
CZ now has the P07 DUTY in .40 caliber; was featured on the cover of some gun mags. Can be switched back and forth from decocker to manual safety, depending on preference. List is $600. Has a new Omega trigger system that simplifies and makes for a shorter, lighter trigger pull. (My P-01 has a very long pull).

[sn] Yes, the CZs are beautifully made. That's part of the attraction. To my eye, they look finer than any of the Sigs or H&Ks I've seen.

>The CZ slide runs INSIDE of the frame for nearly the full-length, unlike most semi's, and feels like greased...whatever. Absolutely the smoothest-riding handgun I've ever handled, and I've handled many. Contributes to their accuracy and reliability.

[sn] I guess that means you find them pretty accurate?

>Sigs are nice; have owned three. Two were P220's in .45 ACP. Too large for me but absolutely accurate and reliable. They have a model 2340 which is used by the DEA. Sigs have always been known for their accuracy, and are ultra-reliable. They have a more compact 9mm model, the SPC 2022 also available.

[sn] The Sigs I've seen are beyond my means. But somebody mentioned the Sig Pro (part plastic) and well accepted. I'll be watching for that one.

>Berettas are still worth looking at. My son used one in "the sand" and said it worked in that harsh environment. Very accurate as well.

[sn] Do you know which model Beretta he used? Was it a current model in 40?

>By selling one or two guns to buy another, I am able to buy any gun that I want...within reason. (less than ~ $1000).
I am presently shopping and will likely buy a Glock model 19 (9mm) for $500 this wkend. By joining GSSF for $35, you can buy one for $425.

[sn] Alas, I'm in California. Buying over the Internet, esp. from out of state, seems almost impossible. None of the local dealers I've talked with will handle an out-of-state transfer. Selling is similarly problematic.

>I've had eight Glocks over the years; have three at present. Would reco model 27 subcompact for IWB carry and compact model 23 for choices in .40 caliber. Their reputation is well-known. They have always been 100% for me.

[sn] I'm keeping Glock on my short list, but I'll be checking that any Glock I buy doesn't have the unsupported case problem.

Thanks.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

If you go for the Glock you can assure you won't have the unsupported chamber issue if you go for one of the new "Gen4" designs, with the different grip stippling and replaceable backstrap. I haven't handled one yet, but I've been reading good things about them.

Or wait a few months and do Ruger's beta testing of the SR40...

-- Sam

 

[soldernut]

Yosemite Sam, All:

Thanks for the tips on 4th gen Glocks. It's as I suspected; this nonesense can't keep going on.

As for "beta testing" the SR40...

It looks like I'll be waiting a few months in any case. Some unexpected dental expenses are going to blow away my pistol fund. Oh well, time for more research - which is always a good thing.

In my day job, I do software engineering. I've learned I don't want to beta test anybody's software - or any other product for that matter. So we'll see how the SR40 looks when released, then see what problems crop up and get addressed quickly.

There's no real hurry.

Also, some of the informative comments in alll these thoughtful replies have me reconsidering my decision for the 40.

The one that really jumps out at me is that it seems difficult to reload well. I can see how that can be. The case isn't terribly long. Heavy bullets will really impinge on usable cartridge capacity. That could lead to dangerously high pressures in a hurry.

The other persistent comment has to do with a widespready perception that the 40's recoil is harsh, snappy - whereas a 45's recoil is more like a push.

I don't know if that's generally true, a mere perception, or an Internet legend that's gone viral. It certainly is a media in which a few perceptions, repeated often enough, take on a mantle of truth.

Whatever.... Since I have to wait, I'll spend some time at the range pestering anybody with a 40 or 45 to let me shoot it - and pick their brains. It'll also buy me the time to visit the few stores around here that handle used gunflesh and get them to let me know when interesting items come in.

Meanwhile, I can spend some time seeing what I can do to improve the accuracy of my P89.

Many thanks to all who've replied.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

> In my day job, I do software engineering.

Me, too. Hence the "beta testing" comment. Glad it didn't go unnoticed.

Having been in the tech industry for 35+ years I've developed a philosophy that carries over into the real world: Never buy "version 1" of anything. Especially these days, when the bottom line rules all, manufacturers are rushing things to market and paying lip service to QC. Let those "early adopters" find all the egregious bugs, and pay the premium for being the first to have the new hot item. I'll wait until it has been proven.

Hope the dental problems get worked out!

-- Sam

P.S. If you're anywhere near Oregon I'm sure I could arrange for you to compare some calibers first hand. Having done this myself I can vouch that it isn't a viral "legend", though I'm not sure I buy the "push" of the .45, either. It's just different.

 

[soldernut]

Yosemite Sam,

Thanks for the generous offer to compare calibers. Alas, I'm in central California (Sacramento area), and only make up to Oregon every year or so.