357 magnum *SUCCESSFUL UPDATE WITH PICS*

[Kevin]

Hello, I'm starting to reload handgun. I've got some cases primed and ready to go.

This is what I have:
125 grain copper coated
HP-38 powder.
CCI 550 small pistol magnum primers.

Question:
I am seeing listings anywhere from 5.6 grains to 7 grains of powder. This seems like a huge difference.

Question:
In one of my books, with HP38, if the bullet weight increases, they list a lighter powder load. For example, 125 grain bullet is 7 grains of powder, for 160 grain bullet, they suggest 3.4 to 5.2 (two lines on the chart, with velocities from 800 to 1000 ft/sec.) Is this true? Why would the powder decrease as bullet weight increases?

Question:
Should I throw away the book in question two? It is "Complete Reloading Guide" by Stoeger 2004.

 

[6gun]

Does the HP-38 powder call out for a magnum primer? very few powders do, I only know of 2 and HP-38 is not one on my list.

Also to anwser one of your questions, yes lighter bullets do take larger powder loads.

 

[anachronism]

HP-38 is used with std primers.Check Hodgdons loading data online and see what data they recommend.

 

[wixedmords]

You can use the magnum primers you have with HP38, but you are gonna push the pressure limits quickly. Keep the load light. It would be better to change the primers or powder if you were going for upper velocity loads. Pretty quick powder there, magnum primers aren't needed nor recommended actually. You may get away with pipsqueak loads, but that pressure is gonna rise quick.

Changed "powders" to "primers" after magnum.

 

[Precision32]

Smokeless powders are "progressive burning" propellants. As the pressure in the cartridge case starts to rise after being ignited by the primer, the powder will burn faster. If the pressure gets too high within the cartridge case, the powder can detonate rather then burn. The balance between the amount of powder and the weight of the bullet is why proper load tables are so important. Push the limits too far and rather than BANG you get BOOM. Can ruin your whole day.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Question:
I am seeing listings anywhere from 5.6 grains to 7 grains of powder. This seems like a huge difference.
That seem about right. The 357mag is very versatile and can be run very mild like a 38special or all the way up to very hot, as it is a high pressure round. With copper plated bullets you should use lead data.

Question:
In one of my books, with HP38, if the bullet weight increases, they list a lighter powder load. For example, 125 grain bullet is 7 grains of powder, for 160 grain bullet, they suggest 3.4 to 5.2 (two lines on the chart, with velocities from 800 to 1000 ft/sec.) Is this true? Why would the powder decrease as bullet weight increases?
As bullet weight increases pressure (back pressure) increases in the case. To maintain the same (correct) pressure the powder load must decrease as the bullet weight goes up.

Question:
Should I throw away the book in question two? It is "Complete Reloading Guide" by Stoeger 2004.
No use it as one of your references.

 

[6gun]

It's not so much the weight of the bullet that builds up pressure, it's more the size of the bullet and how much room inside the case it use's that changes the pressure.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Copper coated?
Do you mean jacketed or plated?
If plated, you'll want to stay below 1,200 fps.

Hodgdon, Nosler, Sierra, Lyman and Hornady all list magnum primers for all their .357 loads.

Speer and RCBS list a standard primer for HP-38.

Most of the max charges of HP-38 for a 125 JHP in my data are over 8 grains.

I would start at about 6.5 grains and work up until accuracy falls off. I wouldn't go any higher than 7.5 with a plated bullet.

 

[Kevin]

I did get some of the information from Nosler. They say magnum primers but didn't specify only with certain powders. I'll try some light loads and report back.

 

[6gun]

I did get some of the information from Nosler. They say magnum primers but didn't specify only with certain powders. I'll try some light loads and report back.

Hodgdon 110 and Win. 296 are the only powders I know of that use a mag. primer in revolver ammo, and these are powders used for 44 mags. I don't know of any powder for 357 that use's mag primers.

I once made the mistake of using mag primers for 357 loads with a powder that didn't call out for them, it made the pressurer to high and expanded my brass to the point all my brass was stuck in the cylinder after firing, lesson learnd and I had 200 rounds to pull bullets on and reload correctly.

 

[Kevin]

I hear what you guys are saying, I am not trying to argue and would be the first person to admit I don't know a whole lot about reloading. I do want to point out, on my canister of HP38 it lists 7 grains of powder for 150 grain bullet and a magnum primer.

I guess I'm more confused about this subject than anything. I find different amounts for reloading data in different places. I'll go look for either some different powder or different primers.

Believe me, I want to be safe and don't want to hurt myself or the gun. On the safe side, I will be doing the shooting in a GP100, so I don't think I'll blow the top strap off.

Thanks, Kevin

 

[sourdough44]

I'd check the Hodgdon site for data & work the lower end. I don't care for max 357 loads with the lighter bullets. Also depends some on intended use, mostly range I'd be mild to mid.

 

[Hammerdown77]

In my guns, 6.5 grains of HP-38 under a 158 gr lead SWC bullet, lit by any standard primer, is a great load. Not a powder puff load, not really a "magnum", but easy to shoot while letting you know you're sending some power downrange.

 

[dougader]

Hodgdon 110 and Win. 296 are the only powders I know of that use a mag. primer in revolver ammo, and these are powders used for 44 mags. I don't know of any powder for 357 that use's mag primers.

H110/W296 are commonly used in loading high velocity 357 magnum ammunition, and also use magnum primers.

HP38/W231 do not need magnum primers. Data is all over the place online and in printed manuals. For a basic plinkling/target round with your 125 grain plated(?) bullet, I'd use about 6 grains of HP38.

For something more serious I'd order some jhp bullets from Speer, Sierra or Hornady and use their data with the aforementioned H100/W296 with mag primers, or 2400, AA9 with standard primers.

 

[greenmtnguy]

No need for Magnum primers in the 357Magnum unless you're loading with 296 or H110 powders with jacketed bullets, like the Hornady XTP rip-snorter loads. These are meant to be run at the upper end of the power spectrum.

 

[6gun]

I hear what you guys are saying, I am not trying to argue and would be the first person to admit I don't know a whole lot about reloading. I do want to point out, on my canister of HP38 it lists 7 grains of powder for 150 grain bullet and a magnum primer.

I guess I'm more confused about this subject than anything. I find different amounts for reloading data in different places. I'll go look for either some different powder or different primers.

Believe me, I want to be safe and don't want to hurt myself or the gun. On the safe side, I will be doing the shooting in a GP100, so I don't think I'll blow the top strap off.

Thanks, Kevin

That load would be OK if you were using jacketed bullets and standard primers, first thing you need to do is get rid of the mag primer idea, use standard primers, you also state your using copper coated bullets, so use lead bullet data not jacked bullet data, (coated bullets are not jacketed)

A real safe powder for you to start out with is Trail Boss hard to blow yourself up with that.

 

[6gun]

Hodgdon 110 and Win. 296 are the only powders I know of that use a mag. primer in revolver ammo, and these are powders used for 44 mags. I don't know of any powder for 357 that use's mag primers.

H110/W296 are commonly used in loading high velocity 357 magnum ammunition, and also use magnum primers.

HP38/W231 do not need magnum primers. Data is all over the place online and in printed manuals. For a basic plinkling/target round with your 125 grain plated(?) bullet, I'd use about 6 grains of HP38.

For something more serious I'd order some jhp bullets from Speer, Sierra or Hornady and use their data with the aforementioned H100/W296 with mag primers, or 2400, AA9 with standard primers.

I have no data for Win296 or H110 in 357 not saying there is none but it would make some hot rounds, I like Win 231 best for 357

 

[dougader]

I have manuals from Speer (x3), Sierra (x2), Hornady (x2), Nosler (x2), and Lyman (x3) that all show data with H110/W296 and magnum primers.

I have what's left of an 8 pound keg of W231(HP38) and I use it for soft shooting to medium velocity loads with standard primers in 32 mag, 38 special/357 mag, 9mm, 44 Special, 45 auto, and 45 Colt.

Unigue, Power Pistol, and Blue Dot make for some good medium to medium-heavy loads in 357 mag, again with standard primers.

As mentioned above, the magnum primers are most always used with the ball powders H110/W296 as well as the bulk powder WC820 and WC297. I have seen data both ways (std/mag primers) with the newer Alliant Power Pro MP-300 powder...

 

[Kevin]

Boy oh boy, lots more to consider, Thanks. I'll go shopping for some different powder and primers, I just might know an out of the way place....

Next week, I'm going to load up a bunch of .327 magnum.

 

[6gun]

I have manuals from Speer (x3), Sierra (x2), Hornady (x2), Nosler (x2), and Lyman (x3) that all show data with H110/W296 and magnum primers.

I have what's left of an 8 pound keg of W231(HP38) and I use it for soft shooting to medium velocity loads with standard primers in 32 mag, 38 special/357 mag, 9mm, 44 Special, 45 auto, and 45 Colt.

Unigue, Power Pistol, and Blue Dot make for some good medium to medium-heavy loads in 357 mag, again with standard primers.

As mentioned above, the magnum primers are most always used with the ball powders H110/W296 as well as the bulk powder WC820 and WC297. I have seen data both ways (std/mag primers) with the newer Alliant Power Pro MP-300 powder...

I did find some Win. 296 loads for 357 in my Horandy book after looking again now I remember why I never use it, takes to much powder, can use 1/2 that much going with Win 231.

 

[sourdough44]

Boy oh boy, lots more to consider, Thanks. I'll go shopping for some different powder and primers, I just might know an out of the way place....

Next week, I'm going to load up a bunch of .327 magnum.

You may not find much, plus you have a combination that would already work. A lighter charge of HP-38 with your magnum primers would be just fine. You may not NEED a mag primer, but with proper consideration, you would be perfectly safe.

I don't mean to suggest wild experimentation, just some reasonable.

 

[6gun]

Best thing for a beginner is a name brand bullet and that brands reloading manual to go with it, I suggest speer bullets and reloading manual, it will tell you which powder and which primer to use with what bullet, takes all the guess work away and will give you safe accurate loads.

 

[M'BOGO]

I hear what you guys are saying, I am not trying to argue and would be the first person to admit I don't know a whole lot about reloading. I do want to point out, on my canister of HP38 it lists 7 grains of powder for 150 grain bullet and a magnum primer.

I guess I'm more confused about this subject than anything. I find different amounts for reloading data in different places. I'll go look for either some different powder or different primers.

That probably has to do with different components, which can change the pressures faster than most realize. When in doubt start low.

Believe me, I want to be safe and don't want to hurt myself or the gun. On the safe side, I will be doing the shooting in a GP100, so I don't think I'll blow the top strap off.

Thanks, Kevin

 

[Skinnedknuckles]

HP-38/Win-231 is my standard powder for .38 Special/.357 Magnum. It can safely be used with magnum primers and today that is all you are likely to find if you can eve find them. HP-38 is on the faster burning side so you are not going to get the fastest magnum velocities with it before the pressures go off the charts. But if you are using plated or lead bullets you don't really want to be at those velocities anyway. You can use .357 Magnum brass and load from light .38 Special target loads through .38 Special +P veolcities and into the low range of .357 Magnum velocities so it is very versatile. I don't enjoy beating myself up with .357 Magnum level recoil so I stay at the low end, mostly using 148 gr plated hollow base wadcutters for target shooting. When component supplies get back to reasonable levels I'm going to work up a series of loads for 125 grain plated flat points as well. I use and like Trail Boss for comfortable shooting lead 158 grain SWC's.

 

[Clovishound]

It was stated before, but I will repeat it. Check your bullets are jacketed and not plated. Jacketed bullets call for much higher powder loads. Plated are loaded at lead stats. Loading plated bullets at jacketed data will likely put you outside the envelope.

 

[Kevin]

Went to the range today. I loaded up a variety of rounds.

CCI 550 mag primers with HP38 in varying amounts from 5.6 to 6.9. The 5.6 was kitty cat soft. The 6.9 was on par with some factory ammo I bought for comparison. All loads pretty accurate. I think 6.4 was my favorite in terms of accuracy and felt recoil.

Next was H110 also CCI 550 Mag primers. 18 grains and 18.8 grains. On Hodgdon's reloading website, they list 21 grains. 18 was too much. 18.8 was a real knuckle buster.

With all loads, not one stuck case or any weird characteristics or side effects. Did have one dud. Not sure why. I didn't mess around with it, just discarded it.

I appreciate everyone's comments. I went slow and with my method, I cannot double charge a case. I have a RCBS 10-10 scale and weigh each round. It goes straight into the single stage press with a bullet. It's slow, but pretty accurate. Anyway, there is some excellent knowledge here and like I said, next week, I'm going to reload some .327 magnum.

The guns used today:
New Vaquero with Sack Peterson's stag grips.

GP100. Simmons 4x scope and American Holly inserts.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Great job. The one that was a dud may have gone off it you tried it again. CCI primers are known to have cups that are little harder than the others.

I would save the H-110 for some heavier jacketed bullets.

 

[NickW]

The use of Small Pistol Magnum Primers in .357 Mag cartridges is wildly acceptable; in fact, Lyman used only CCI Magnum Primers in all their .357 mag tests for their 49th edition Reloading Manual. With the advent of powder shortages more and more reloaders have to turn to “What’s Available” powders to reload. For the safety conscious meticulous reloader this will broaden their knowledge base and provided more interest in their sport, for the not so meticulous it will be a costly learning experience at best.

 

[Kevin]

NickW:
You bring up a good point. Being meticulous and checking for mistakes. I personally know one guy who has had had several guns explode. You just can't keep blaming external factors. And no, ask him and he will never admit it was a reloading mistake. I'm surprised he's not been hurt more.

 

[6gun]

The use of Small Pistol Magnum Primers in .357 Mag cartridges is wildly acceptable; in fact, Lyman used only CCI Magnum Primers in all their .357 mag tests for their 49th edition Reloading Manual. With the advent of powder shortages more and more reloaders have to turn to “What’s Available” powders to reload. For the safety conscious meticulous reloader this will broaden their knowledge base and provided more interest in their sport, for the not so meticulous it will be a costly learning experience at best.

Problem with using mag primers with powder that don't need them is you have to reduce to the powder load so far to keep the presure down and keep it from over expanding the brass you end up with a very under powered weak and slow round with a very short range.