22 mag for self defense?

[5of7]

A friend of mine asked me to get a S&W Airlite PD in .22 Mg., so I did.

It is a very nice pistol, a 7 shot gun with a 2" barrel. When I asked him what he wanted it for, he told me as a carry gun for his daughter.

Now as far as the gun goes, it is nice and light and should carry well in a purse, but I advised him regarding the external ballistics saying that he was probably looking at a little less than 1000 fps from that 2" barrel, and didn't he think that she would be better served with an LCP of an LCs, each of which were better choices than a 2" 22 Mag.

He was adamant, which I can understand, given that he had just ponyed up $600+ for the .22 Mg.

Did I give him a bum steer about the .22 mg., or was I right. 8)

 

[Jeepnik]

While not my first choice, that would have been a .38 spl of some sort, I feel she'd be pretty well protected. It's really more about shot placement than caliber, anyway.

Interestingly, I've found that steel "J" frame sized .38's, are easier to handle than any of the lightweights, even those in .22 mag.

 

[GunnyGene]

Depends a lot on the ammo. Hornady Critical Defense .22wmr is specifically designed for short barrel handguns. It's about the best you can get in this application. See this: http://www.hornady.com/store/22-WMR-45gr-Critical-Defense/

 

[varminter22]

You made a good point. But in the end, his daughter probably should shoot/carry whatever she is comfortable and proficient with.

Maybe the .22 Mag is the ticket, at least for now. Maybe she'll be inspired to select another caliber in the future.

 

[5of7]

Well after I told him about the ballistics, I felt a little bad about it. He is after all a friend of mine and he had just spent about twice the money he needed to for a PD gun that is a little short in the powder dept.

I gotta learn to keep my mouth shut... 8)

 

[k22fan]

Well after I told him about the ballistics, I felt a little bad about it. He is after all a friend of mine and he had just spent about twice the money he needed to for a PD gun that is a little short in the powder dept.

I gotta learn to keep my mouth shut... 8)

No, you gotta learn to speak up before your friend passes the freeway exit.

 

[Ray Newman]

"But in the end, his daughter probably should shoot/carry whatever she is comfortable and proficient with."
--Varminter 22

BINGO!

 

[lipofsky]

to quote my Great-Grandfather, "a hit with a .22 beats a miss with anything else you have"

 

[ADP3]

Have your friend look at the ballistics for a NAA Black Widow (2" Barrel) over at http://northamericanarms.com/ball_bwm

They show a mean of 1300 fps w/ CCI 30gr +V JHP, 1193 fps w/ Win Supreme 34 gr JHP and 1098 fps. w/ Win 40gr JHP. The 2" J-frame in .22 Mag ought to have velocities close to these which all exceed 1,000 fps.

Best Regards,
ADP3

 

[GunnyGene]

Have your friend look at the ballistics for a NAA Black Widow (2" Barrel) over at http://northamericanarms.com/ball_bwm

They show a mean of 1300 fps w/ CCI 30gr +V JHP, 1193 fps w/ Win Supreme 34 gr JHP and 1098 fps. w/ Win 40gr JHP. The 2" J-frame in .22 Mag ought to have velocities close to these which all exceed 1,000 fps.

Best Regards,
ADP3

Here's another comparative chart of FPS by the inch: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html

 

[planetcat]

I carry my lcr .22 mag every now and then. Even though I'm a big bore guy, that little revolver is so easy to shoot and incredibly accurate. I don't feel vulnerable with it. It might not stop a gargantuan pcp addict, but I wouldn't want to be shot by one. Tell your friend his daughter should feel safe carrying it. Hopefully she never needs to use it in a defense situation.

 

[Mike Armstrong]

As I always say when this subject comes up, talk to a trauma doc or EMT in a big city about what .22 WRM does when it hits a human center mass (You will get lots of cussing first, I'll bet). A lot of killing power, not so much stopping power, tho. Multiple hits help.

There is also certainly something to grandpa's remark about .22s....

 

[REP1954]

A quality rimfire magnum round in a revolver of quality make and build is for sure a force to contend with. I have never had a failure to fire with good quality 22 Mag ammo and gun combination. Buy cheap and get cheap.

 

[CraigC]

It's a long way from ideal but surely enough to make any would-be attacker think again about his choices. Better for her to have a .22Mag at all times, versus a .38 she's afraid to shoot and leaves at home.

 

[contender]

We teach a lot of ladies how to shoot for the first time through our NRA WOT program.
We get that similar type of question all the time.
ANY firearm must fit the person, AND they must be able to operate it. What works for me will not work for most ladies.
Before he plunked down any $$ he should have gotten her into a class to learn what SHE was comfortable with.
Offer to take her shooting & leave him at home so she can relax w/o daddy looking on. Teach her to use her gun & offer to let her try a few others,,, to see if she if she likes them. I do tend to strongly suggest the simplest operating handgun for those folks who only occasionally shoot. That would be the DA revolver.

 

[noahmercy]

Five-of, you are exactly right. The 22 Mag has well-documented inconsistent expansion when fired from handguns. That means a tiny (.223") hole through the target most times and muzzle blast from a snubby 22 Mag is surprisingly obnoxious. A much better choice for a recoil-shy shooter is a gun chambered in 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R, or 327 Federal. A hot 32 S&W Long with a semi-wadcutter or wadcutter bullet (pretty sure Buffalo Bore makes a couple loads along these lines) will do far more damage than a 22 Mag from a short barrel, and doesn't have the flash and bang which can be more intimidating than the recoil to some folks. Step up to the magnum rounds when the shooter is proficient and comfortable and you have an exceptional performer that won't abuse the person behind the trigger.

And before anyone trots out the "lethality" of rimfires, a defensive gun need not be lethal, but it better STOP the threat. Unless a tiny bullet expands to make a bigger hole AND gets deep enough to reach vital organs, or it hits the central nervous system, it is very unlikely to keep a bad guy from hurting or killing you. 22s have a proven poor track record of being fight-stoppers, particularly when the bad guy is under the influence of alcohol or narcotics, or is mentally unstable...which pretty much covers 90% of the scumbags one might have to shoot.

 

[Old Dog Soldier]

We teach a lot of ladies how to shoot for the first time through our NRA WOT program.
We get that similar type of question all the time.
ANY firearm must fit the person, AND they must be able to operate it. What works for me will not work for most ladies.
Before he plunked down any $$ he should have gotten her into a class to learn what SHE was comfortable with.
Offer to take her shooting & leave him at home so she can relax w/o daddy looking on. Teach her to use her gun & offer to let her try a few others,,, to see if she if she likes them. I do tend to strongly suggest the simplest operating handgun for those folks who only occasionally shoot. That would be the DA revolver.

SOUND WISDOM !!!!!!!!

ODS

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

Great write-up.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/6/8/the-22-magnum-for-self-defense/

.22 mag. Is actually pretty impressive and some of the newer load configurations actually outperform .380.

 

[welder]

It's a long way from ideal but surely enough to make any would-be attacker think again about his choices. Better for her to have a .22Mag at all times, versus a .38 she's afraid to shoot and leaves at home.

I feel the same way. She may well use the little rimfire as a starting point and move up, but if she doesn't she still has more defense that the vast majority of people out there concerning handguns. It will give her confidence and a much better chance to defend herself should she need to. I have friends and family who carry nothing except a cell phone and I would be happy if they would consider any gun in any caliber. The fact she shoots and carries is the main point. BTW my first gun was a BB gun followed soon by a single shot Sears .22. We all start somewhere.

 

[stevemb]

Some good advice thru above posts so I'll just add..add the 50gr Federal 22mag HP to the ammo try list.

 

[Big Old Boy]

My wife has the LCR 22 mag that is the gun she likes to use and is much better than a hand full of rocks.

 

[5of7]

Some good advice thru above posts so I'll just add..add the 50gr Federal 22mag HP to the ammo try list.

I suggested that to my friend, but he said that the 30 grain ammo produced more energy so that was what she was going to be carrying.

When I tried to explain that the penetration factor was better with the heavier bullet, he told me that energy and killing power were the same thing.

As my daughter says....'each to his own'. 8)

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

I read Hornady is working up a new critical defense load in 35 gr. It utilizes their XTP tip in a leadless copper core, and will generate devistating ballistics and energy transfer to the target. (From a 4 inch barrel or greater) Looks like a 9mm hydrashok or better in ballistic gelatin. Gotta find a link to the article.

 

[5of7]

Some people think that they are gonna get 1800 FPS out of a 22 Mg. with a 2" barrel...it ain't so. 8)

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html

 

[GunnyGene]

Some people think that they are gonna get 1800 FPS out of a 22 Mg. with a 2" barrel...it ain't so. 8)

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html

Many people have all kinds of oddball notions and false assumptions about firearms and ammo. Unless it's a friend or somebody I care about, I don't even try to educate them anymore. Especially when it comes to ballistics. The math is often over their head anyway. It's enough for them if the damn thing just goes bang when they yank the trigger. :roll:

Like this: Shotgun - Good spread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9iYvyffAh4

 

[HW11]

As several people have said it may not be the number one choice but that being said I have seen a good number of people killed with a 22 and a 25 for that matter. I've seen one killed with one shot from a 22 short. He was outside in the driveway. He was standing in a sandy spot so you could see his foot prints. The lady said when she shot him he just fell forward. Sure enough his toes were in the end of the footprint, he didn't even kick a little. I saw a very interesting outcome from a 25 one time but that's another story.

 

[Unk]

End point of my back up to primary path...Mod 60, I had hammer bobbed and made the rough out leather pocket square.

First was a Iver Johnson TP 22, next High Standard Derringer .22 mag, followed by AMT .380, then the S&W..any could have spoiled someone's day - my objective was, and is, to always go home to my family at days end.

Best.

 

[bigbill]

Don't sell the 22 caliber short. If it's fast enough it bounces off bones in the body like a ball in a pin ball machine. It can do damage.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

And before anyone trots out the "lethality" of rimfires, a defensive gun need not be lethal, but it better STOP the threat. Unless a tiny bullet expands to make a bigger hole AND gets deep enough to reach vital organs, or it hits the central nervous system, it is very unlikely to keep a bad guy from hurting or killing you. 22s have a proven poor track record of being fight-stoppers, particularly when the bad guy is under the influence of alcohol or narcotics, or is mentally unstable...which pretty much covers 90% of the scumbags one might have to shoot.

I'm not going to "trot out the "'lethality'" of rimfires" BUT I will be the first to say it's better to have something than nothing. Many times people don't actually have to fire that gun. They do NEED to understand if they do decide to use a rimfire, they just made a commitment to completely empty their gun on their attacker. Just like any other SD shooting you shoot till the threat stops. Using less power than you can handle put's you at a disadvantage. I didn't read the last few posts but agree with Contender that someone besides her husband needs to take her out to shoot and bring her up to a level of confidence with a revolver that she can step up the power some. She needs to ask herself, what would she do if her life, or the life of her family were in danger? What can she handle now?

 

[DA_TriggR4Ruger]

Heard if you can get a .22 into a skull, it bounces around like packman untill it runs out of energy. I don't want to be the one to test that out. Lol