People keep mentioning Buffalo Bore.... I conversed with Tim Sundles some years back about rounds for black bear defense, Tim having killed more bears than most folks, plus being the man behind BB. He seemed to be of the opinion that with black bears (for defense) you just had to hurt them bad enough and they would turn and run off. You didn't need monster kill them right now stopping power like you would like with a brown bear. Again, not talking about hunting, just saving your skin.
180 gr. Hard Cast For Black Bear??
- Thread starter whichwatch
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I've had two bear encounters one black and one brown. The black I had no gun and she was more interested in the cubs than me for some reason, the brown I had a Single-Six and he just looked at me for what seemed like days and then left. a 180gr .357 would have been adequate in both situations. 
Evidently you were posing no threat to neither the sow or her cubs but place yourself between her and her cubs and a whole different story can unfold rather quickly. She may have been teaching her cubs to avoid humans and I'm she did not hang around long.
whichwatch
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cas said:
I agree that if a bear is intent on doing you harm your first thought is to do whatever it takes to save yourself and I would do the same. Long after the fact I believe I would have a hard time knowing that I shot something and didn't kill it and let it run off, to die a long agonizing death, or maybe to recover completely and that would be fine if recovery were to happen. I would imagine that in the case of turning a bear the opposite direction with a well placed, or not so well placed bullet the last thing on your mind at the time would be the condition of the bear and tracking it to finish it off probably wouldn't even cross your mind in light of what you just went through.
CraigC
Hawkeye
Yep, big difference in the capability and mindset of brown versus black bears.cas said:
It's been a long time since I've talked to Sundles but in years past I've talked to him several times and he is able to contribute some amazing information and give you more options than you might have thought. He is quite an experienced hunter. He's specifically the reason I carry his good 45 Colt +P 325 grain hard cast in my 454 Alaskan. He made some good points and let me know how good his ammunition was.
Biggfoot44
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Statement #1 - IF .357 is a given as the only option , such a loading of heavy cast bullet is better than steely glare and stern language . ( As would somthing in 160gr, pushing close to 1400fps , but not enough difference between the two to change the discussion .
Statement #2 - Any number of cals would be better choices than any .357 .
I get it is for more of all around back country use just in case and not dedicated hunting . And I get it that " somewhat controllable for multiple shots " could be desirable, if only for potential SD against two legged miscreants. In that spirit , I would sugguest starting point of 255gr @ 900fps ( hint- traditional.45Colt), up to whatever is suitably controlable, and starts with a "4" .
Statement #2 - Any number of cals would be better choices than any .357 .
I get it is for more of all around back country use just in case and not dedicated hunting . And I get it that " somewhat controllable for multiple shots " could be desirable, if only for potential SD against two legged miscreants. In that spirit , I would sugguest starting point of 255gr @ 900fps ( hint- traditional.45Colt), up to whatever is suitably controlable, and starts with a "4" .
whichwatch wrote
" tracking it to finish it off probably wouldn't even cross your mind in light of what you just went through."
From the voice of experience, I couldn't agree more.
I lived in the backcountry of Montana for 10 years and had many bear encounters. Most bears were just nosing around and looking for food. On the other hand, the word ferocious just doesn't cover a description of an angry bear. If I hear someone tell me they wounded a bear and then tracked it, I call bulls**t. That is not bravery, that's stupidity.
I absolutely love the 357. The Maximum is my favorite caliber.
That being said, the 357 mag is totally inadequate for bear. Placement can get you home, but I think it's irresponsible to not carry a caliber than can clearly do the job. Wounding an animal from poor caliber choice and not tracking is about the most chickens**t thing I can imagine.
However, I would never advocate for a shooter to track a wounded bear. If you really feel quilty, go ahead and shoot yourself. If the shooter was in my camp, he would have to live with his new CS label for life.
Sorry fellow shooters. Wounded animals are at the top of my pissed off list. No excuses for it, none.
Prescut
Forget recoil. If you need it, even a cannon seems small. Bear spray turns them.
" tracking it to finish it off probably wouldn't even cross your mind in light of what you just went through."
From the voice of experience, I couldn't agree more.
I lived in the backcountry of Montana for 10 years and had many bear encounters. Most bears were just nosing around and looking for food. On the other hand, the word ferocious just doesn't cover a description of an angry bear. If I hear someone tell me they wounded a bear and then tracked it, I call bulls**t. That is not bravery, that's stupidity.
I absolutely love the 357. The Maximum is my favorite caliber.
That being said, the 357 mag is totally inadequate for bear. Placement can get you home, but I think it's irresponsible to not carry a caliber than can clearly do the job. Wounding an animal from poor caliber choice and not tracking is about the most chickens**t thing I can imagine.
However, I would never advocate for a shooter to track a wounded bear. If you really feel quilty, go ahead and shoot yourself. If the shooter was in my camp, he would have to live with his new CS label for life.
Sorry fellow shooters. Wounded animals are at the top of my pissed off list. No excuses for it, none.
Prescut
Forget recoil. If you need it, even a cannon seems small. Bear spray turns them.
I don't believe anyone here has said the 357 mag is the best choice in a hand gun. But it is better than a stick or a rock. I've lived in grizzly country most of my life and been out and about around them, I always carried a 44 mag or more around with a heavy load.
I don't trust Bear Spray for grizzlies, I trust it even less with black bears. It will run off black bears but they will come back if their interest was predatory.
BPGuy
Single-Sixer
Bear Paw Jack said:
Reminds me of that old joke - You can always tell when someone went in the woods wearing bells and carrying OC spray for bears. The bear scat has bells in it and smells like pepper! :lol:
The .357 has excellent speed and penetration. 180 grain rounds in a .357, even if it takes several, will put down almost anything on this continent. In the past, people have killed bears with heavy 38 Special loads. Some guy even killed a grizzly bear with a 9mm not long ago. A rifle or shotgun is better but one can certainly defend oneself with a .357.
whichwatch
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teuthis said:
Thank you, I agree. .357 was used on big game long before the advent of the larger magnums and todays "super magnums". My .357 would be carried for so called "protection" NOT as a primary hunting gun, in fact I'm not even hunting while hiking in Colorado anyway. I have much bigger calibers but the .357 is something my wife could pick up and get a shot or 2 off if she had to also. Plus it's easy it's carry and/or conceal. I'm actually more concerned about human predators as not everyone on the trail and campgrounds is necessarily a stand up person, good samaritan or all around nice guy.
The guy that killed the grizzly with a 9mm is Phil Shoemaker. He's a master Alaska guide. He's been in on over 100 Grizzly kills and has been guiding for years. He's got a LOT of experience with bear anatomy, and is using a Buffalo Bore bullet.
Having said that the 357mag has been used for some big animals successfully. What it boils down to is using a good bullet and personal shooting proficiency. The percentage of people who are mauled by a bear of any kind is pretty small. I actually know a fair number of people who have had to shoot bears and other critters in defense of life and property over a LOT of years, it happens but not often by any stretch. But one thing I do know, is that it doesn't matter what you run into or don't run into, it's a good feeling to have a gun on your hip that you have confidence in. Most people can proficiently handle a 357 magnum. That can't be said about a lot of other magnums.
Having said that the 357mag has been used for some big animals successfully. What it boils down to is using a good bullet and personal shooting proficiency. The percentage of people who are mauled by a bear of any kind is pretty small. I actually know a fair number of people who have had to shoot bears and other critters in defense of life and property over a LOT of years, it happens but not often by any stretch. But one thing I do know, is that it doesn't matter what you run into or don't run into, it's a good feeling to have a gun on your hip that you have confidence in. Most people can proficiently handle a 357 magnum. That can't be said about a lot of other magnums.
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