Thoughts on .45 Colt & .45 ACP Convertibles

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Bob Wright

Bob Wright

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
8,597
City & State/Province
Memphis, TN USA
Two of my .45 Colt Rugers. I bought the 7 1/2" gun in 1987, the 4 5/8" in the year 2000.

100_0020_zpse9670b73.jpg


At the time I bought these, Ruger was not offering convertibles, but would fit an ACP cylinder if the gun were returned to the factory. So, I did just that.

Here, neatly boxed in one of my many little boxes I've accumulated over the years:

100_8677_zpsgstbp8rp.jpg


These cylinders will not interchange between these two Blackhawks, will not drop into the frame window.

I have a .45 Colt Vaquero bought in 1996, sort of on a lark:

101_0010.jpg


I tried the ACP cylinder from the 4 5/8" Blackhawk and it fit fine, also indexed seemingly perfectly. So, I hied off to my gunsmith, Keith Warner, for verification, and he judged it blessed.

So, I'e fired some of my shortened .45 Colt cases, which I've called the Xtra Short, as well as some .45 ACP rounds and everything works just fine.

100_9048_zpspxba5au7.jpg


Incidentally, that 4 5/8" Blackhawk has had a face lift and now looks like this:

100_0479_zps1r95u05l.jpg



Bob Wright
 
I have this Cimmeron Thunderer made by Uberti with both cylinders but have never worked it out yet on paper, I did a plinking session with it. I need to work with it. Almost forgot I had it.
https://i.postimg.cc/5NHNjBj9/Uberti-C-012399.jpg
 
Bob Wright said:
So, I'e fired some of my shortened .45 Colt cases, which I've called the Xtra Short, as well as some .45 ACP rounds and everything works just fine.

100_9048_zpspxba5au7.jpg


Bob Wright
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,

Three exceptional Rugers!

Are your 45 Revolver M 1906 (xtra short) rounds based on the 45 S&W Special (45 Frankford) from the Army Trials, but a tad shorter to chamber in the Ruger 45 ACP cyl?
 
Hondo44 said:
Bob Wright said:
So, I'e fired some of my shortened .45 Colt cases, which I've called the Xtra Short, as well as some .45 ACP rounds and everything works just fine.

100_9048_zpspxba5au7.jpg


Bob Wright
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,

Three exceptional Rugers!

Are your 45 Revolver M 1906 (xtra short) rounds based on the 45 S&W Special (45 Frankford) from the Army Trials, but a tad shorter to chamber in the Ruger 45 ACP cyl?
Click to expand...

They are the same length as the .45 ACP.

As to the length of the M-1906 cartridges, dimensions varied so much that it is difficult to tell exactly what their length was. One of the problems at the time.

Bob Wright
 
I have a new model convertible with 4 5/8" barrel that I keep in my truck when out in the woods.
I keep it loaded with my 45 Colt hunting load (290 gr SWC @ 1,050 fps from this revolver) and it has taken 7 or 8 hogs in past few years...but no deer yet. The load is very accurate with 5" group for 10 shots from 50 yards on most days. With the 45 ACP cylinder I've never shot better than 7" group while using factory loads or hand loads. I rarely shoot the 45 ACP cylinder but my wife likes the 45 ACP when plinking with this revolver. I like the versatility of the convertible model and may pick up a 6" barrel version in future.
 
fiasconva said:
Is there much difference in accuracy between the 45 colt vs the 45 acp in each gun? Which is more accurate?
Click to expand...

You know, I've never really compared them side by side. The .45 Colt in all of my guns is a very accurate load. As to hair splitting accuracy, I've not done that with the .45 Special or ACP loads. But using ACP in my S&W Model 625 years ago I shot a 5/8" five shot group at twenty five yards. Never done that since!

But my .45 Special, well, that's sort of "What if......" type of thing and one pleasant shooting plinking load.

As a matter of note, I originally called my cartridge the ".45 Xtra Short" but lately have decided to call it the ".45 Special" as that was what S&W would have dubbed it had it been adopted by the Army and then become a commercial round. Somehow, I just can't warm up to the appellation ".45 Cowboy Special." I make my labels, I call it what I want to.

Bob Wright
 
fiasconva said:
Is there much difference in accuracy between the 45 colt vs the 45 acp in each gun? Which is more accurate?
Click to expand...
I have a 1972 OM convertible in 4 5/8". In mine when using my general plinking rounds (slower-range load that I use for plinking purposes and is not made for a specific gun, both ACP and LC running around 725 FPS) the ACP runs a little better. I prefer using the Colt loads though, just feels right.
 
Bob Wright said:
They are the same length as the .45 ACP.

As to the length of the M-1906 cartridges, dimensions varied so much that it is difficult to tell exactly what their length was. One of the problems at the time.

Bob Wright
Click to expand...

Very true. I standardized my cases at .923". Shoot them in an old S&W Triple lock 455 with a modern Model 25 .45 ACP cyl. Moved the chamber shoulder .030" for them. I never shoot ACP, a few 45 Auto Rim, but mostly the 45 S&W Spl (1906) as a tribute gun to the original Army Trial Triple Locks.
 
Now that Ruger doesn't offer nor will they fit a second cylinder to the gun unless it left the factory as a convertible, one must be more resourceful if one wants a convertible. I bought a NM Vaquero 45 Colt and wanted another cylinder so I bought a NM Flattop Blackhawk convertible and "borrowed" the 45 ACP cylinder from it. This cylinder I reamed to 45 Schofield by using a 45 Colt finishing reamer with a stop made from a piece of a case so it cuts the correct chamber length for the Schofield, and it worked out pretty good.

Just so happens the Flattop's ACP cylinder dropped in my Vaquero with only about .001" difference than the 45 Colt cylinder the fit was phenomenally good!

Shortly after this our infamous worst POTUS in history issued his EO making conversions like this into manufacturing instead of simple gunsmithing so the rest of us are sol as far as getting one done.

I figured Ruger gave us a FINE tier two platform with the medium framed revolvers, they are some of the best fit and finished Rugers I have came across, virtually no thread choke in the specimens I have had in my hands, so why not come up with an equally fine tier two load to match the gun? SAAMI won't ever sanction a 45 Colt +P load, and there is a conspicuous void of published load data for the Schofield in +P pressures as well, so other than Brian Pearce's articles and loads, you must seek out a copy of QuickLoad to safely develop loads in the tier two power band.

I chose the 45 Schofield because of the shorter case = higher load density and I also wanted to avoid the resulting freebore in front of the case mouth by using Schofield brass in a 45 Colt chamber.

This makes for excellent hunting loads with slow powders and less bullet weight than the Ruger Only loads, and one can still get a 260gr WFN to 1200fps while holding pressures just under the 23,000psi ceiling that the medium frame 45s are rated to. Recoil is snappy but not at all sharp and not nearly as violent as touching off a 300gr load over a full house load of H110 or W296. In fact it is downright liveable with no gloves or other protection to the bare hand.

Not intending to steer your thread Bob, just to toss a little twist into it ;)

I looked hard for a Blued/CC Vaquero to use for this but couldn't find one and the price on this one was too good to pass up, with only 50 rounds fired.

 
Hey Doug,

Have you seen this?

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/01/trump-administration-finalizes-removal-of-itar-gunsmith-license/?utm_source=Ammoland+Subscribers&utm_campaign=356e81bdd2-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-356e81bdd2-7179273#axzz6BsEUXYll
 
smith1961 said:
Hi Bob,

Nice. Who did the Case hardening on those babies?

Woody
Click to expand...

All of my Rugers were worked over by Doug Turnbull. I usually and other work done by my 'smith and he did the forwarding and receiving from Turnbull.


Bob Wright
 
bogus bill said:
I have this Cimmeron Thunderer made by Uberti with both cylinders but have never worked it out yet on paper, I did a plinking session with it. I need to work with it. Almost forgot I had it.
https://i.postimg.cc/5NHNjBj9/Uberti-C-012399.jpg
Click to expand...

Bogus Bill, that's a really nice looking revolver. I've always had a weakness for the Thunderer shaped 6 guns. How's that one shoot? I mean, is it as comfortable as a Ruger Vaquero or Blackhawk in your opinion, or what would you compare it to ?
A lot of shooters seem to get one and then remark about it not being very pleasant to shoot and I could very easily take the plunge on one either in 45 Colt or 45 ACP!
Thanks for any impressions/thoughts you could offer.

Buckshot Bill
 
Nice looking guns Bob and seems to be lots of great info on this thread.

I have an OM 4 5/8 45 Convertible.
Haven't shot it yet.
Likely won't.
It's still in the box.
 
In regards to my earlier post asking questions of bogus bill-

My apologies to the op, Mr. Bob Wright. I believe I inadvertently "hijacked" his thread, and it was not my intention to do so. It was rude of me to barge into another members' thread and ask questions as I did.
Bob, I enjoy all your topics here, and I'm truly envious of your Blackhawks you show all of us.

Buckshot Bill
 
Buckshot Bill, just seen your post. I think I only took that thunderer out once or twice many years ago to just try it out when I bought it. With that grip it shot easily. I never shot it off the bench for accuracy but want to when I get on my feet this summer.
 
Buckshot Bill said:
In regards to my earlier post asking questions of bogus bill-

My apologies to the op, Mr. Bob Wright. I believe I inadvertently "hijacked" his thread, and it was not my intention to do so. It was rude of me to barge into another members' thread and ask questions as I did.
Bob, I enjoy all your topics here, and I'm truly envious of your Blackhawks you show all of us.

Buckshot Bill
Click to expand...
Nobody "hijacks" my posts, the "Join in the conversation." So long as you disagree/agree in a civil manner and speak of shootin', Rugers, Single Actions, gunpowder and bullets, dogs and decent talk, you're fine in my book.

Bob Wright
 
I have 3 Ruger convertibles. After initial purchase I tried both cylinders just to be sure they all worked well, and then put the original cylinder back in.

Last year I took my "200th Year Commemorative" Blackhawk 45 out at camp with both cylinders just for fun. The ACP cylinder had not been in the gun since 1976. I had a good supply of ACP and Colt ammo.

Now, I did not have a rest and I did not document my data. All were handloads with 230 RN Boolits. The ACP were tailored for a 1911 and the Colt loads were basically what I use for a SAA.

My findings (perception) were that the 45 Colt ammo was more accurate. Besides that, they just seemed more fun to shoot. (not very quantitative huh?)

To add yet another variation in the mix, I also tried a supply of 45 Colt ammo with 0.454 255 grain Boolits that were custom made for my S&W 25-5 with wide cylinder throats. THEY were the best of the bunch.

Anyways, just an opinion. Regardless, just having a gun that can shoot more than one caliber is enough justification in itself.
 
I'm new to the convertible game…I have a 7.5" 200th year .45 and a 5.5" Stainless New Vaquero in .45. I've wanted a convertible for a while. Last week I found one on consignment locally- a 5.5" NM Blackhawk. I was looking for an old model or especially a 4.5" flat top- but I couldn't pass this one up especially since it was basically new. I don't think it has ever been fired. I offered $600 and they accepted. I haven't put any lead down range, but I have a ton of ACP just waiting in the safe.

I used to reload some mouse fart ACP loads when I was target shooting 1911's. I need to find that recipe and see how it works on the Blackhawk. They were a hoot to shoot- felt like a cap gun, accurate as heck in a Gold Cup.


IMG_9322.jpeg
 
only .45 convertible I have is this '71 old model 4-5/8" barrel

IMG_20220813_0736.jpg


seems to prefer lc over acp but fun to shoot with both

IMG_20220813_2263.jpg


up in the 5-7 yard range slow fire it does well with both but the lc is still slightly tighter than acp

IMG_20220813_21785.jpg


IMG_20220813_22476.jpg
 
DougGuy said:
Now that Ruger doesn't offer nor will they fit a second cylinder to the gun unless it left the factory as a convertible, one must be more resourceful if one wants a convertible. I bought a NM Vaquero 45 Colt and wanted another cylinder so I bought a NM Flattop Blackhawk convertible and "borrowed" the 45 ACP cylinder from it. This cylinder I reamed to 45 Schofield by using a 45 Colt finishing reamer with a stop made from a piece of a case so it cuts the correct chamber length for the Schofield, and it worked out pretty good.

Just so happens the Flattop's ACP cylinder dropped in my Vaquero with only about .001" difference than the 45 Colt cylinder the fit was phenomenally good!

Shortly after this our infamous worst POTUS in history issued his EO making conversions like this into manufacturing instead of simple gunsmithing so the rest of us are sol as far as getting one done.

I figured Ruger gave us a FINE tier two platform with the medium framed revolvers, they are some of the best fit and finished Rugers I have came across, virtually no thread choke in the specimens I have had in my hands, so why not come up with an equally fine tier two load to match the gun? SAAMI won't ever sanction a 45 Colt +P load, and there is a conspicuous void of published load data for the Schofield in +P pressures as well, so other than Brian Pearce's articles and loads, you must seek out a copy of QuickLoad to safely develop loads in the tier two power band.

I chose the 45 Schofield because of the shorter case = higher load density and I also wanted to avoid the resulting freebore in front of the case mouth by using Schofield brass in a 45 Colt chamber.

This makes for excellent hunting loads with slow powders and less bullet weight than the Ruger Only loads, and one can still get a 260gr WFN to 1200fps while holding pressures just under the 23,000psi ceiling that the medium frame 45s are rated to. Recoil is snappy but not at all sharp and not nearly as violent as touching off a 300gr load over a full house load of H110 or W296. In fact it is downright liveable with no gloves or other protection to the bare hand.

Not intending to steer your thread Bob, just to toss a little twist into it ;)

I looked hard for a Blued/CC Vaquero to use for this but couldn't find one and the price on this one was too good to pass up, with only 50 rounds fired.

Click to expand...
I want to comment on the SAAMI issue concerning the .45 Colt P. I really do not understand their contempt for this caliber and power level, but Buffalo Bore ignores this and makes three levels of .45 Colt +p rounds. Since I own a flattop model, Buffalo Bore makes it clear to not shoot the top two power loads, so I have shot only the round that has 1,216 ft. lbs., and it has quite a kick and sound. I have to use two hands and a glove to shoot this round! I cannot imagine what the next two hot loads are like! What is SAAMI's problem with this???
 
"SAAMI won't ever sanction a 45 Colt +P load,"

To try & answer this,, w/o actual direct knowledge,, I'd say it has to do with the fact that the .45 Colt was developed LONG before stronger guns like Ruger & T/C were built. Weaker guns,, requires less powerful ammo, to avoid blown up guns & injured people. Which,, that,, results in lawsuits in todays world.
So,, SAMMI won't sanction loads for liability reasons. Because they know some moron will put a heavier load into a weaker gun. Then the lawyers will have a place to start hunting for deep pockets.
 
... I handload, so no reason {to shoot .45 ACP}.
Click to expand...
I 'finally' came to that conclusion too after I developed a few loads for the .45 ACP for my convertibles. It dawned on me ... 'why'. .45 Colt does it all from mild to wild. I don't have any semi-auto .45s, so the .45 ACP dies are just gathering dust now as is the 9mm dies.

{edited} to change to ACP (brain dyslexia).
 
Last edited:
I've owned a number of .45 convertible revolvers. When folks were saying the ACP rounds were inaccurate or less accurate, mine never got that memo.

Pleased as I have been with 45Colt/45ACP revolvers, I have a Sheriff's Birdshead New Vaquero in .45ACP only, and the accuracy is quite good. I will never miss the .45 Colt capability for this tiny revolver.








.
 
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