Suppressor Without A Suppressor?

[Joe Chartreuse]

I enjoy learning about the zillions of types of ammo more than guns, but I just got stumped. A new one for me: Suppressor ammo. Not necessarily subsonic either. I guess that the powder formulation is different, but what is the effect? Gas production without sonic explosion? I am a science guy and this is driving me nuts. Below see a CCI version- not subsonic, and I hear that Federal (not my favorite) makes them as well. Can anyone tell me if my guess above is correct, or give an explanation of the physics?

 

[contender]

Read the box.

"Clean"

Many types of ammo are just plain dirty when shot through a suppressor.

 

[Cholo]

It is subsonic @ 1,000 fps.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

Both #2 and #3 beat me too it.....as Homer SImpson would say......

 

[RoninPA]

Also, remember that powder in ammunition does not explode, it just burns at different rates. As such, burn rates of different powders will cause different noises when shot from short barrels versus long barrels and the gases will cool differently going down different barrels and the sound will be different when the gas comes out of the barrel(s). The extra cooling of the gases when going through a suppressor is what mitigates the sound at the barrel end.

You can still have the supersonic crack of the bullet when it exits the muzzle but still muffle a lot of the sound from the burning powder. When shooting ammo that is called subsonic, the mfg uses powder that when it burns will not create enough pressure to force the bullet supersonic and which doesn't create the amount of gas noise when it exits the muzzle. When you shoot that , that's when you get the Hollywood quiet suppressor sound(s).

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

It is subsonic @ 1,000 fps.

This one is- barely. Most subs are 700-900 FPS. I am told some aren't I know that it's clean too. However, I am told that "suppressor" rounds like this are also quiet rounds even if not sub. Could this be the case?

 

[Cholo]

No, not at 1,000 fps.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

Thank you.

 

[Mobuck]

As several have mentioned, how well a suppressor works is affected by powder burn rate, bullet weight/shape, and barrel length.
Even sub-sonic ammo can be louder or quieter depending on powder burn rate.
I've been cleaning up some partial boxes of sub-sonic 22 lately shooting it through a suppressed Charger barrel. Three brands all 40 grain bullets with similar advertised velocity BUT there's a noticeable difference in sound. I could speculate that the results might even be different when used with a different design or construction. Suppression is an inexact science IMHO.

 

[RoninPA]

ANY ammo firing a bullet that has a velocity of over 1,126 ft/s at the muzzle is going to make a "crack" that you can hear. Depending on the suppressor you may not hear the muzzle blast but you would still hear the sound as the bullet breaks the sound barrier.

Take big game hunting for example - the bullet is traveling so fast that the animal being shot at really isn't startled by your firing at it. Say it's a 100 yd shot, which is only 300 feet. If you aimed correctly, the bullet has probably hit the animal before it hears the sound. It reacts to the hit probably more than the sound (unless you miss ) . However, any other animals close by are affected by the sound and move/scatter. The closest animal, the human, is affected immediately. How many hunters do you know, or have known, wear hearing protection while hunting (especially small game hunting - but you can get suppressors for shotguns now). I'll bet not many, they want to be able to hear noises in the woods. That is where the new versions of hearing protection that amplifies noises while in the woods but shuts down/cancels VERY loud close noises comes in. Also, this is why suppressors for hunting rifles are being used more and more.

 

[s4s4u]

This one is- barely. Most subs are 700-900 FPS. I am told some aren't I know that it's clean too. However, I am told that "suppressor" rounds like this are also quiet rounds even if not sub. Could this be the case?

The speed of sound is about 1126 fps, + or -, depending on altitude and air temperature.

Anything that exits the muzzle at a slower velocity should remain subsonic. Barrel length has a lot to do with velocity, especially with 22LR.

As for the OP, "suppressor" ammo is supposed to burn cleaner to reduce maintenance.

 

[Hertervillian]

I look at that box and the claims, my “read” is its clean shooting. About the time you lean into scrubbing your rimfire suppressor you’ll appreciate any help you can get. That Suppressor monicker speaks to the guy that spent the better part of his Sunday night removing the buildup left by his bulk box .22 rounds.

 

[rcs9250]

I have a suppressed 22LR I use for pesting. I’m going to have to try some to see how accurate they are.
I use a Tikka T1x with Lapua subsonic that is extremely accurate. In my opinion all 22LR is dirty. It would be nice if subsonic “suppressor” ammo is quiet and accurate. We’ll see.
I found a YT video that had a process for coating the baffles for easy cleaning. Both chemicals are auto parts store sprays. It definitely made cleaning easier/faster.

 

[RoninPA]

rcs9250 - let us know what the sprays are. Anything to make the baffles easier to clean is a big plus when talking about .22 suppressors.

 

[kmoore]

The clean CCI rounds I tested are ploy-coated bullets. Sub sonic at 1070 fps. Clean, I am not sure how much better than others. My testing was for function. I shot another CCI clean as I recall that was 750 fps. Same day shot Remington lead sub sonic. Suppressor was still damn dirty.
When I found them at the gun shop, I only guessed that Clean met poly coated lead and MAYBE cleaner powder. All I know is using a suppressor on the 10-22s sure turns most working parts black. I clean the rifle parts and suppressor in a sonic cleaner.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

I have a suppressed 22LR I use for pesting. I’m going to have to try some to see how accurate they are.
I use a Tikka T1x with Lapua subsonic that is extremely accurate. In my opinion all 22LR is dirty. It would be nice if subsonic “suppressor” ammo is quiet and accurate. We’ll see.
I found a YT video that had a process for coating the baffles for easy cleaning. Both chemicals are auto parts store sprays. It definitely made cleaning easier/faster.

For close range small pesting near the garage and shop I just use shorts. No suppressor cleaning and the neighbors don't complain because if they hear them at all it sounds like a nail gun.

 

[Cholo]

CCI Quiets have a much lower report than a regular Short. Of the three CCI makes, the Quiet Longs are quieter than the Quiet Shorts and Quiet LR's. Strange but true.

 

[XUSNORDIE]

CCI Quiets are a much lower report than a regular Short. Of the three CCI makes, the Quiet Longs are quieter that the Quiet Shorts and Quiet LR's. Strange but true.

True. I discovered that as well and prefer the longs over the Ls over the S's for off the deck chipmunk sniping on the deck to the sand mound. Regular shorts can crack!

 

[Cholo]

I've shot the CCI version for 50 years now; they used to be called CB's as in CB long and CB Short. They both shot a 29 gr. bullet, but the longs were noticeably quieter for the same FPS. My late friend didn't listen to me and he bought the Quiet Shorts because I had to be wrong. He told me he should have listened to me LOL

 

[XUSNORDIE]

I've shot the CCI version for 50 years now; they used to be called CB's as in CB long and CB Short. They both shot a 29 gr. bullet, but the longs were noticeably quieter for the same FPS. My late friend didn't listen to me and he bought the Quiet Shorts because I had to be wrong. He told me he should have listened to me LOL

I still have a partial sleeve of CB Shorts....and have no use for them (as intended). I was shocked how loud they were. Longs are what stands by for close in chipmunks and feral cats under the bird feeders....or a PCP 22 which is about the same decibel as the long.

 

[Cholo]

I bought a Rem. 581 in 1976. I had the barrel cut from 24" to 18" because it would scrape my truck's headliner when I'd pop a crow or a groundhog out the window. That became my backdoor sniper rifle until about 3 years ago when I switched to a CZ 452 with a 23.5" barrel. It literally sprayed the Quiet Longs and I couldn't hit a small target at 42'! I bought a brick of 40 gr. Quiet LR's and it stacks them, but has a louder report than the longs out of a 7.5" less barrel. Go figure.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

OK, I believe everyone, but the science guy is coming out again. Two quiet subs, or short- with way less of a cartridge, and on LR. How is the LR quieter unless it's velocity. Both are subsonic.

 

[Mobuck]

^^^ OK, not an outlandish question.
I'm assuming you mean 22 short vs 22 long rifle? Most/all semi-auto 22's are designed to function with long rifle cartridge length. Ammo makers try to approximate the ballistics of the 22 short in a cartridge that will cycle and function in most (?) 22LR firearms and not clog up the front of the chamber as can happen with 22 short. They do this by adjusting powder type or charge and/or bullet weight.
The difference between a typical sub-sonic and a 'suppressor' loading may not be anything more than packaging but that's dirty pool IMHO. True 'suppressor' ammo should incorporate powder type/charge adjustments, non-fouling bullet lube/coating, and bullet weight changes that improve probability of function in semi-auto firearms.
Powder in rimfire loads is already 'fast burning' but best suppressed results will come from a powder that burns even quicker and is basically pushing the bullet with residual gas pressure before it hits the suppressor or the action begins to cycle.
Grease type bullet coatings will gum up a suppressor rapidly so copper or polymer coating will help keep the muffler clean(er) for longer.
A heavier bullet creating more resistance will help improve cycling of semi-auto firearms while staying in the sub-sonic velocity window.
Why did Cholo's firearms sound quieter with one round vs the other? A fluke or quirk of nature and/or firearm's mechanics. Some things can't be scientifically explained.

 

[krw]

Like I have commented numerous times before. Everyone hears different, and frequency comes into play. If You would have been there, maybe you would have heard it totally different. For fairness, You have to use a decibel meter for accurate assessment
If You choose to go down the rabbit hole for ultimate suppression kudo's to you. I want quite 22LR that will KILL critters at 35yds. That is hard enough to do w CCI Std Vel at 1070fps. Shooting critters with 710 velocity ammo, I'll pass. I am gonna try CCI SubSonic (1050fps) segmented ammo
Just buy a good name brand Rimfire suppressor and go shoot. I am sure you drive to the grocery store. And quite sure it aint in a Hellcat Redeye Demon. But you get your grocery's. Same as suppressor's

 

[Cholo]

OK, I believe everyone, but the science guy is coming out again. Two quiet subs, ons short- with way less of a cartridge, and on LR. How is the LR quieter unless it's velocity. Both are subsonic.

CCI Quiets are all listed as 710 fps. I'll call all Quiet ammo Q. I didn't say the Q LR had less report that the Q Short. I did say the Q Long had less report than the Q Short. Both shoot the same 29 gr. bullet. I can't explain that. I havn't shot what was then called the CB Short since the 70's when I found the CB Long to have less report.

I had to switch to the Q LR when I went to the CZ. The Q LR has much more report that the Q Long even though both are rated at 710 fps. That's easy to explain because one shoots a 29 gr. bullet and the other a 40 gr bullet. It simply takes more powder to push 40 grs. out of the barrel the same fps than a 29 gr. bullet with less bearing surface.

It doesn't make any difference, anymore. I just looked at CCI's website and they only list the Q LR, now.

 

[Mobuck]

I'll repeat what I've mentioned before: When fired through a suppressor, dropping MV below the super-sonic threshold doesn't make any perceptible difference in noise level.
Not sure if it's still this way but when 'QUIET' ammo was introduced, it came with a warning about use in longer barrels-literally, the powder charge might not push the bullet out of some rifle length barrels.
krw's comments about using a decibel meter are valid. An individual's perception of noise isn't scientific.

 

[kmoore]

The large 1 is rated for .22 centerfire and rimfire. Smaller is rimfire only. Firing either of them on a 10-22. My ears can't detect a difference with CCI mini mags, regarding sound.
You would believe a 7 inch suppresser does more suppressing sound vs a 3.5 inch. It likely does but I can't hear any difference.

 

[Cholo]

Not sure if it's still this way but when 'QUIET' ammo was introduced, it came with a warning about use in longer barrels-literally, the powder charge might not push the bullet out of some rifle length barrels.

I believe the warning was to not use them in barrels longer than 24".

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

Like I have commented numerous times before. Everyone hears different, and frequency comes into play. If You would have been there, maybe you would have heard it totally different. For fairness, You have to use a decibel meter for accurate assessment
If You choose to go down the rabbit hole for ultimate suppression kudo's to you. I want quite 22LR that will KILL critters at 35yds. That is hard enough to do w CCI Std Vel at 1070fps. Shooting critters with 710 velocity ammo, I'll pass. I am gonna try CCI SubSonic (1050fps) segmented ammo
Just buy a good name brand Rimfire suppressor and go shoot. I am sure you drive to the grocery store. And quite sure it aint in a Hellcat Redeye Demon. But you get your grocery's. Same as suppressor's

You know, this could be the biggie for me. I have lost some hearing in the human voice range, but am ultra sensitive to highs and lows (this is why I can't listen to MP3 "music"). That frequency situation would probably explain what I am hearing. Thank you for posting this.

 

[Cholo]

CCI does still offer the former Quiet Short and Long. They market them as Low Noise at the same 710 fps velocity.