A few comments about the 22LR

[Mobuck]

I was going to post this under the rimfire section but it mostly pertains to SD type use.
I shoot quite a bit of 'stuff' with a 22 especially during trapping season. I often switch ammo types to compare the performance. I've found a high degree of variability with every type of 22 ammo I've tried. One type of ammo may work great several times and the next seems totally ineffective due to unknown factors of application or target animal's resistance.
With these very 'unscientific' results in mind and IMHO, using a 22LR for self defense is unwise unless there's absolutely no other choice. Not saying it won't work but saying it may not work as hoped for or expected in every scenario.
I carry a little SR22 during spring and fall farm work because it's small enough to not be in the way or conflict with tractor seats. I also fully understand/expect that it's 'iffy' and would require specific targeting to be adequate. Keep this in mind as you watch those videos and gell block tests that animate targets don't show/feel/reflect the same results.

 

[kmoore]

There is far too much difference between the many ammo makes of .22lr, primer compounds used, rim thickness from brand to brand and just plain quality control for me to ever consider the cartridge for SD. I haven't mentioned the limited Power of it vs the 9mm/38spl and above cartridges yet either.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

I disagree, of course, as they are my favorite rounds. As for the many different types, makes, and qualities, it's sort of our business as gun owners to learn about them. As a matter of fact, I have more interest in ammo types than I do the guns. Also, as far as reliability: I have mentioned in threads that most problems are caused by the shooter, not the ammo. Due to the .22LR cartridge size, you simply can't put just any type of ammo into a semi and expect it to work. You can't use subsonic "quiet" ammo, and should stay away from even standard velocity.
High velocity rounds are required to re-cock the pistol reliably. Just physics. Can't limp wrist either. I constantly see people dry firing .22s without snap caps / dummy rounds which WILL damage the gun and make IT unreliable. Cheap ammo is cheap for a reason. I have NEVER had a problem with CCI Min-Mags or Blazers, Aguila Super Extra. While I have never had a problem with Federal Punch defensive rounds, their others are iffy.

I will never buy another Remington or Winchester round of any type ( with the possible exception of a Winchester Super X .22/250 if I can't find any Hornady) again.

I always hear or read the myth about .22s being unreliable. Been shooting them a long time it has NOT been my experience.

 

[blume357]

22lr would pretty much be my last choice for self defense but I will say it is great for training, especially someone who is new to shooting.
And even us old timers with thousands of rounds shot can still like it. On top of that 22lr is the cheapest way to put holes in paper and such.
One of my possible goals with my upcoming retirement is to actually become a firearms instructor and with that in mind it would be interesting to have a few 22lr semi-autos that are close to the same size and such as larger caliber guns for novices to start with.

 

[Mobuck]

I'm not talking about the functionality or reliability of the 22 LR firearm(s). I'm relating the variability of the terminal performance of the ammo.

 

[peachhead]

There is an argument that the 22 is responsible for more deaths than any other caliber in history.
That sounds pretty terminal to me

 

[Milvax]

Your post should be required reading for anyone considering a .22 for primary self-defense.

 

[s4s4u]

I always hear or read the myth about .22s being unreliable. Been shooting them a long time it has NOT been my experience.

I had a brick of Winchester 22LR, in the white box, that would fail to fire a few times out of each box of 50...from a 10-22.

I do not have enough confidence in the ammo to trust a 22LR firearm with my life.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

I'm not talking about the functionality or reliability of the 22 LR firearm(s). I'm relating the variability of the terminal performance of the ammo.

Apologies for the misunderstanding. Mobuck. That being said, I stand by the [art of my post regarding ammo knowledge.There are a LOT of very different .22lr rounds out there.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

I had a brick of Winchester 22LR, in the white box, that would fail to fire a few times out of each box of 50...from a 10-22.

I do not have enough confidence in the ammo to trust a 22LR firearm with my life.

Like I said, Winchester and Remington are probably the very worst .22LR mfrs. It;s not the caliber, it's the quality-

 

[Mobuck]

"There is an argument that the 22 is responsible for more deaths than any other caliber in history.
That sounds pretty terminal to me"
If there were 500 Chevies on a stretch of road and 50 Fords, Would the fact that Chevies had more flat tires be conclusive evidence?

 

[RC44Mag]

I’ll add, an “argument” doesn’t mean confirmed data

 

[NH Rugerman]

There is an argument that the 22 is responsible for more deaths than any other caliber in history.
That sounds pretty terminal to me

I seriously doubt the accuracy of that statement, unless you are talking about Center Rifle 22 calibers, i.e. 5.56, etc. Think about how many people died in WWII or WWI….not many of them died at the hands of ANY 22 Caliber ammunition that i am aware of.

 

[gunman42782]

Like I said, Winchester and Remington are probably the very worst .22LR mfrs. It;s not the caliber, it's the quality-

You know, I agree with the Winchester part, but .22s are so ammo picky. My wifes Walther P22 won't shoot nothing but Remington Thunderbolts! It doesn't even like Mini Mags. You have to see what your particular gun likes. My MK2 and 22/45 will digest almost anything.

 

[peachhead]

I seriously doubt the accuracy of that statement, unless you are talking about Center Rifle 22 calibers, i.e. 5.56, etc. Think about how many people died in WWII or WWI….not many of them died at the hands of ANY 22 Caliber ammunition that i am aware of.

There was a DOJ study some years back but I think the conclusion was murky. If I recall correctly it said something along the lines of, "probably more homicides or death were caused by 22 caliber than anything else" not counting military action etc.
I haven't taken the time to look it up. I think it had more to do with the commonality of it and the widespread availability.
Anyway, I was just making the argument. I don't think 22 is the most lethal caliber there is, but I think it's better than nothing.

 

[Fox Mike]

You know, I agree with the Winchester part, but .22s are so ammo picky. My wifes Walther P22 won't shoot nothing but Remington Thunderbolts! It doesn't even like Mini Mags. You have to see what your particular gun likes. My MK2 and 22/45 will digest almost anything.

I have the opposite, as Remington Thunderbolt was the worst ammo I have ever used. The only thing it worked well on was my Henry. Guns, like ladies, can be picky.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

It's true that bolt and lever action rifles- bolt more so- are not so snarky about what you put in them. Hell, I have some single shots and tube feeders that take shorts, longs, or long rifles. I don't, but I probably COULD put cheap ammo through them with no problem.

 

[flattop44]

Some tunnel rats in Nam used Ruger MK1s with a silencer. I saw one on a Army guy and asked him about it. He handed it to me and let me see it. He said it would do the job and not defen him.

 

[Mobuck]

Not a 'tunnel rat' but had experience with the older High Standard HDM OSS version. Currently have/use an updated 22/45 version (not integrally suppressed but generally look alike).

 

[LDB]

I'd rather have a 22lr than nothing at all. I'd rather have almost any other option than a 22lr.

 

[bowzette]

I asked the "Armed Attorneys" YT channel how many cases they defended where someone used a .22lr from a handgun where the BG was not stopped by a shot(s) to the head or high center mass, assuming Mr. BG was not wearing heavy clothing? Response was "None". If you don't hit the CMS, heart, or pelvic bone you are punching holes with a handgun. From what I've read the muzzle velocity from a rifle has to produce 2000-2200 FPE to destroy organs from energy shock. Nevertheless, I carry 9mm Federal HST 124gr, or Buffalo Bore .380 100gr Hardcast, flat point +P, not a .22lr.

 

[bobski]

it took 5 shots to kill a squirrel once.
it wasnt the ammo, and i am a good shot. it was the squirrels desire to live.

 

[Jagdhund]

I think the storage of .22 rimfires might be a consideration. I have a Ruger Bearcat that I carry while working in the pasture. I hadn't shot it for some time, so I took it out the other day for a practice session. It had been stored loaded with 6 rounds of Blazers in a "6-pack" size plastic cooler for about a year. The first round sounded like an air rifle shot. I couldn't see where the round hit. Mis-fires in .22's are not uncommon, so I ran the ejector rod through the cylinder to eject the round. Except it wasn't a mis-fire. Then I used the ejector rod to see if the bullet was stuck in the barrel. It wasn't. All six rounds were like that. The last three or so I could see were hitting about 3 feet below POA. Velocity must have been very low. My surmize is that the oil in the chambers had seeped past the crimp and damaged the powder. So now I will leave it unloaded until I need it.

 

[Byron Bay]

50 odd years ago when laws in this country were not so limp wristed and it was legal to shoot roo's without any special permit i only used a .22 to knock them down. Now kangaroos are a large animal i would shoot from 50 to 70 mtrs out as they take flight pretty easy and you have to move in carefully.
I used a ruger 10/22 fast shots head or lung and always killed them with one shot, took down 5 in one go one day, younger and faster reflexes and just regular hollow point ammo as a rule, but in saying that ammunition was probably better back then as well.
Never underestimate any weapons potential.

 

[Cholo]

It had been stored loaded with 6 rounds of Blazers in a "6-pack" size plastic cooler for about a year.

Where was the cooler stored?

 

[Byron Bay]

Like I said, Winchester and Remington are probably the very worst .22LR mfrs. It;s not the caliber, it's the quality-

Strangely enough while I agree 100% about Winchester ammo, I have found the Remington golden bullets to be very accurate and problem free in my Ruger mkiv Hunter.
My son was using them and beating me at the range while I was using cci, converted me

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

I think the storage of .22 rimfires might be a consideration. I have a Ruger Bearcat that I carry while working in the pasture. I hadn't shot it for some time, so I took it out the other day for a practice session. It had been stored loaded with 6 rounds of Blazers in a "6-pack" size plastic cooler for about a year. The first round sounded like an air rifle shot. I couldn't see where the round hit. Mis-fires in .22's are not uncommon, so I ran the ejector rod through the cylinder to eject the round. Except it wasn't a mis-fire. Then I used the ejector rod to see if the bullet was stuck in the barrel. It wasn't. All six rounds were like that. The last three or so I could see were hitting about 3 feet below POA. Velocity must have been very low. My surmize is that the oil in the chambers had seeped past the crimp and damaged the powder. So now I will leave it unloaded until I need it.

Doesn't sound like ammo was the original problem. Storage.. I understand that you were talking about oil, but another thing I do is store all weapons and ammo with moisture AND oxy absorber packs. Keeps everything beautifully. Would not have helped your seepage problem though. I think some heat made it into that cooler.

 

[Mobuck]

I've left a loaded 10/22 in the roof rack of my UTV for months/years and plain cardboard box of 22's on the dash of my pickup for ??years exposed to sunlight, moisture, and whatever else was blowing around. Ammo failure was not a problem. Excess oil in revolver cylinder? Maybe. Stiff springs from congealed/solidified lube? Bigger maybe.

 

[vito]

I normally carry a 9 mm semi auto, an LC9s or sometimes a Glock 26. But sometimes, especially in hot weather when I am lightly dressed, I carry my LCP2 in 22lr in a Desantis pocket holster. Right or wrong I feel pretty confident that the 22LR will be enough for me to avoid further problems with whomever I encounter that means me harm. Even in the lightest cottom shorts I can carry this LCP2 without a problem.

 

[Mike J]

Everyone can carry whatever they like. That is fine with me. I honestly don't view .22 LR as a viable option for self-protection. If I had no other choice or I was incapable of using something larger due to arthritis or other physical problems I might. I am not infirm & I have other choices.