Weird revolver question--historical.

[wolfee]

Has anyone ever made a single action revolver with a swing out cylinder? Double action with a fixed cylinder? No reason, just wondering.

 

[22/45 Fan]

Well, the S&W Model 3 and Schofields were break open single actions so, while the cylinder didn't swing out sideways, it was exposed so all 6 empties could be ejected simultaneously. Many early pocket pistols were double action but loaded singly through a loading gate.

 

[wolfee]

Thanks, I knew about the Schofields, but not the "pocket pistols".

 

[varminter22]

Check out the Sedgley revolver on Hamilton Bowen's website:

http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/gallery.html

R. F. Sedgley was one of the most prolific American gunmakers and exerted a great deal of influence in the trade, particularly between the two World Wars. Best known for his Springfield and Mauser sporting rifles, he also dabbled in handguns. Many of the famous revolvers conceived and owned by Elmer Keith, including the No. 5 gun, reflect his handiwork.

Among his least known designs are the lift-out cylinder single-actions. Known examples are based upon Colt SAA guns suitably modified to contain what is essentially a double-action cylinder with an extractor and extractor rod for simultaneous ejection. The rod is pulled forward freeing the bolts so that the cylinder can be removed through the loading gate.

Bowen Classic Arms has recreated a modern version of the Sedgley design based upon the Ruger Vaquero. This particular specimen is done up in the classic light-weight style complete with a 4 inch barrel, Colt-pattern dovetail front sight, scalloped receiver and a Bisley hammer. The two-piece grip frame assembly is fitted with a spectacular set of one piece French walnut grips from Roy Fishpaw. Chambered for the .45 Schofield, the gun has an extra fitted cylinder and a lanyard ring.

 

[J.Johnson]

The Colt 1877 would be a good example of a double action gun that was a fixed cylinder. Loaded through a gate and ejected empties with an ejector rod the same as a Colt SAA.

 

[k22fan]

Has anyone ever made a single action revolver with a swing out cylinder? Double action with a fixed cylinder? No reason, just wondering.

While the only example of a production single action revolver with a swing out cylinder that comes to mind was S&W's SA model 14 .38 special, double actions with fixed cylinders were a widely used type of European military cartridge revolver in the nineteenth century. A few of the later ones remained their country's primary military handgun through WWI and continued to be used through WWII.

Double action rimfires and center fires with fixed cylinders were preceded by DA fixed cylinder pin-fires. While the British 1856 Beaumont-Adams .442 caliber and American Star .36 and .44 caliber DA percussion revolvers of course had fixed cylinders, the French military's Lefaucheux M1858 12 mm pinfire is the earliest example that fired metallic cartridges.

Examples of fixed cylinder DA military revolvers were the Austro-Hungarian's M1870 Gasser 11.2x29.5mm, M1876 Gasser-Kropatschek 9mm and M1898 Rast & Gasser 8 mm, the French military's M1873 Chamelot-Delvigne 11mm and M1892 8 mm, the Swiss military's M1872 10.4 mm (.41 Swiss) rimfire, and the Italian military's M1898 Rast & Gasser 10.35 mm.

Colt also made DAs with fixed cylinders. In addition the previously posted mid-frame M1877 Colt made a large frame M1878 primarily in .45 Colt and .44-40.

It's a whole lot harder to find examples of single action revolvers with swing out cylinders. Mateba's recoil operated automatic revolver could be counted, but self cocking is hardly what Ruger revolver fans think of as SA. S&W's SA .45 acp model of 1955 is rare, so consequently as a practical matter there is only their model 14.

 

[Bkat]

The Colt 1877 would be a good example of a double action gun that was a fixed cylinder. Loaded through a gate and ejected empties with an ejector rod the same as a Colt SAA.

This was Colt's first double action, the .38 Lightning, followed shortly by the .41 Thunderer, both with fixed cylinders and birdshead grips. The 4.5" and up barrels had ejectors, but the shorter barreled "pocket pistols" did not.

Bkat

 

[rugerguy]

High Standard made a line for them as well as under the JC Higgens brand over the years, double action, swing out cylinder, convertibles even ,,,,,Durango, Double Nine, High Sierra, Sentinel, etc.

 

[Bob Wright]

It was an illustration of the rod-ejector double action Colt Model 1878 that got me really started on my quest to learn about guns, especially the revolver. There was an illustration of that DA .45 in my Daisy Red Ryder Handbook that piqued my curiosity, as it wasn't a "Cowboy Gun."

When I knew everything about guns I knew there was a "Cowboy Gun, an Army Pistol, a German Luger, a Police gun, and a Snub nosed .38." What more was there to know?

Bob Wright

 

[BearBio]

The Colt 1877 would be a good example of a double action gun that was a fixed cylinder. Loaded through a gate and ejected empties with an ejector rod the same as a Colt SAA.

This was Colt's first double action, the .38 Lightning, followed shortly by the .41 Thunderer, both with fixed cylinders and birdshead grips. The 4.5" and up barrels had ejectors, but the shorter barreled "pocket pistols" did not.

Bkat

Also, the 1878 and 1902 Colts. Some longer barrels (on the 1877) didn't have ejectors either.

 

[BearBio]

The Colt 1877 would be a good example of a double action gun that was a fixed cylinder. Loaded through a gate and ejected empties with an ejector rod the same as a Colt SAA.

This was Colt's first double action, the .38 Lightning, followed shortly by the .41 Thunderer, both with fixed cylinders and birdshead grips. The 4.5" and up barrels had ejectors, but the shorter barreled "pocket pistols" did not.

Bkat

There was also the .32 Rainmaker.

 

[BearBio]

Since I didn't speak up fast enough to make a contribution, I'll throw out some pics:
Colt 1878 in 45 Colt. Don't have a picture of my 1902 but it's the same except blued and larger trigger guard.


A pair of Colt Lightnings:


A Thunderer:


The 1877 were famous for being VERY fragile in double action. They were favorites of John Wesley Hardin and Billy the Kid, though.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Cool guns bearbio!

 

[Walter Rego]

Here are a couple of European revolvers that are double action with non-swing out cylinders and pivoting ejector rod systems. They are both chambered for a 7.5mm rimmed round, the Swede is a 7.5 x 22R and the Swiss is the 7.5 Swiss Ordnance Revolver round and they are generally interchangeable.
The Swiss revolver has an interesting design called the "Abadie" mechanism, I suppose named after the inventor, which is an interlock with the loading gate. When the gate is open, the hammer is disengaged. Pulling the trigger double action advances the cylinder for ejecting and/or reloading rather than having to advance the cylinder by hand as in a single action revolver.

 

[22/45 Fan]

Other single/double action revolvers without a swing-out cylinder were the H&R .22's that required removing the cylinder completely to remove empties and reload. You pulled the base bin out and the cylinder then fell out into tour hand.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

High Standard made a line for them as well as under the JC Higgens brand over the years, double action, swing out cylinder, convertibles even ,,,,,Durango, Double Nine, High Sierra, Sentinel, etc.

I was thinking of those High Standard guns as well... single action styling but double action in function and with a swing-out cylinder.

 

[toysoldier]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Russian Nagant revolver. There's a whole lot of these double-action/loading gate revolvers available in the States.