Theoretical 22LR question

[powder smoke]

I have a serious 22 LR question about the best 22 LR stopping power. I have a relative who is a non shooter but an avid camper.

Best advice you can give him is a 22 is not a good defensive weapon.
Get him to move up a notch or two. JMO. ps

 

[kmoore]

Not theoretical just fact, that gun and caliber make no sense as a SD weapon. A SD weapon if used can mean life or death to someone. Do your relative a big favor, teach him or get him into a class and learn all about the liability, reasons for carrying a SD gun. I thinks it's great that the relative is wanting to protect himself with a firearm. No reason to be stupid or ignorant about carrying a firearm to used for SD.

 

[mikld]

I would explain to your friend that the 22 lr has very rarely, if ever stopped a fight. Many have died from a 22 lr wound, but it usually takes time, something a defender doesn't want. Then there's the fact his choice of weapon is a small single action, a bit slower to use than other action types. Of course several rounds to the head or torso will severally wound/kill a human, but I would rather have one or two rounds STOP the fight...

I recently read about some 22 lr "segmented" ammo (CCI), and 3 little pieces of lead running around inside his body may make the bad guy bleed out quicker, but I would still want something to stop the fight faster, like right now!...

 

[Cholo]

↑ I think we all do. Well, except one guy

 

[GunnyGene]

Sit him down in front of YouTube and show him some body and surveillance cam videos of real life defensive situations that will drive home just how fast his world can go to hell.

 

[Captain America]

My wife carries a .22lr LCR all day, every day. She practices a lot with it and is very good with it. CCI ammo doesn't eject well from her LCR but WWB does and we've had very few duds with thousands of rounds fired so that's what she carries. They go through 2x4's with ease and make cans of Spam explode out of the backside. Shot placement is vital with any caliber which is why she practices a lot, 17 misses with a 9 mm will not be as effective as one .22lr in the eye.

 

[GunnyGene]

My wife carries a .22lr LCR all day, every day. She practices a lot with it and is very good with it. CCI ammo doesn't eject well from her LCR but WWB does and we've had very few duds with thousands of rounds fired so that's what she carries. They go through 2x4's with ease and make cans of Spam explode out of the backside. Shot placement is vital with any caliber which is why she practices a lot, 17 misses with a 9 mm will not be as effective as one .22lr in the eye.

Good for her, but an obvious question: What kind of practice?

 

[Captain America]

Good for her, but an obvious question: What kind of practice?

Drawing, moving in different directions, that sort of stuff, it's hard to find volunteers to run at her with live fire. The most important practice she performs is situational awareness. She's from the inner city and is keenly aware of her surroundings at all times.

 

[Mobuck]

Here's a few of my observations:
I carry a SR22 at times. It's loaded with 8 rounds of common HVHP and I fully understand it's limitations.

Given my recent experiences with most 22 ammo, I can't recommend the use of any 22lr to an inexperienced user. If there's no other choice, it's better than a sharp stick. As I've said before, attitude and intentions may be worth more than the tool in hand.

Years back, I gave my Daughter a Taurus 9 shot 22lr 2" barrel revolver. The results of shooting HVHP(including Velocitor) were unimpressive. Of all types of 22lr ammo I've used lately, the most impressive performance has been with CCI 40 grain sub-sonic HP. The "segmented" variation might be even better for SD.

 

[grobin]

Killing something depends on hitting it in a vital spot, nothing else! A 22lr is plenty accurate. I worked with LEO for 20+ years. We had deputy who consistently won combat pistol champaionships. He got into a bar fight where the BG was ~300lbs and hoped up on PCP and booze. The deputy fired his 15 rounds with no hits. BG wiped the floor with him, he had scored no hits. If you don't hit it you doin hurt it!

The 22 LR is fine if you can get consistent hits in a small area. If when stressed your accuracy at 15' is minute of barn maybe you shouldn't be carrying!

As for SA being slow it's not how many rounds you put down range it's where they go!

 

[kmoore]

Not to beat up the .22lr too much, I have as many officers carried one in a pocket or elsewhere at some point. Why? it's better than a .25acp. It is to be used as the last chance, the BG and you are hand to hand combat. Officer holds the gun to the BGs head/body etc. and fires until threat is over. Now days the miro .380s takes that roll.
No firing at a BG or animal on a trail at over arms length away and no cocking the hammer to shoot each shot.

 

[Cholo]

Why? it's better than a .25acp.

I agree. In '75 or so I bought a Galesi-Brescia .25 ACP from a friend for $25. At the pit we used to shoot at was a 2x4. A .22 short HP out of my 6 1/2" Single Six went thru the board which surprised me. The .25 HP stuck in the board and I pulled it out with my fingers.

I sold it to a co-worker for $30. I actually wish I still have that little POS. I carried that thing every time I went out with my then wife. The noise would scare a BG more than being shot with it.

 

[RandyP]

"As for SA being slow it's not how many rounds you put down range it's where they go!"

Not quite true, an unloaded muzzleloading rifle can be supremely accurate, but it would be nothing more than a baseball bat in a SD situation when micro-seconds count. A single action revolver at rest is 'unloaded'. You need to do a pair of small muscle actions to get it to fire - cock the hammer, pull the trigger. All you ever want to do in SD situation is pull the trigger, not fumble with the hammer too. It is also why darn few instructors would ever suggest not always having a round in the pipe.

With SO many sound choices in various better caliber double-action revolvers and semi-autos, there is just NO reason/need to limit your capabilities with a SA.

 

[Snake45]

Why? it's better than a .25acp.

I agree. In '75 or so I bought a Galesi-Brescia .25 ACP from a friend for $25. At the pit we used to shoot at was a 2x4. A .22 short HP out of my 6 1/2" Single Six went thru the board which surprised me. The .25 HP stuck in the board and I pulled it out with my fingers.

I sold it to a co-worker for $30. I actually wish I still have that little POS. I carried that thing every time I went out with my then wife. The noise would scare a BG more than being shot with it.

Or you could have sold it for $500 to some "gun buy-back" program and gone out and bought a real gun! :lol:

 

[grobin]

"As for SA being slow it's not how many rounds you put down range it's where they go!"

Not quite true, an unloaded muzzleloading rifle can be supremely accurate, but it would be nothing more than a baseball bat in a SD situation when micro-seconds count. A single action revolver at rest is 'unloaded'. You need to do a pair of small muscle actions to get it to fire - cock the hammer, pull the trigger. All you ever want to do in SD situation is pull the trigger, not fumble with the hammer too. It is also why darn few instructors would ever suggest not always having a round in the pipe.

With SO many sound choices in various better caliber double-action revolvers and semi-autos, there is just NO reason/need to limit your capabilities with a SA.

The SA doesn't limit your capabilities it's your lack of practice! Often one shot does the trick, follow up shots may be needed on ocasion. Assuming that you hit the BG. Even if you miss he may get out of the area. But it's far better to hit. If you can't cock a SA maybe you shouldn't be carrying.

 

[RandyP]

In the OP's rimfire example, I don't care how 'speedy' you think you can cock, aim and fire the thing, if it goes "click" instead of bang, you are screwed and have lost valuable time you don't have to fiddle some more and give it another go. With a DA revolver, even in the horrid choice of a rimfire caliber, the worst it can get is pull-click , pull-bang. Surely you can appreciate that will prove faster, especially in a high adrenalin situation? Or are you one of those poor misguided souls who won't carry a center-fire semi-auto with one in the pipe either?

For very similar weight and size a person could bring a Glock 19 into the woods and have a fighting chance against most all critters, two or four legged.

 

[rangerbob]

GG, You meant to say" that 200 pound man on drugs" including heroin, PCP, crack, or Lortabs just to mention a few. Yes, I have been know to carry an 8 shot M43C S&W loaded with Stingers, but usually as a backup gun for my M340 357. My wife has a pair of M351C's in 22 Magnum, one for her purse and the other for around the property and home. It boils down to that are better choices than the Bearcat. Bob!! 8)

 

[grobin]

The reality is you can always get bad ammo. No way to tell it's bad except fire it-or not.

The slight pause of cocking the gun helps accuracy. The main reason for empty n round magazines is simply pulling the trigger is reflexive, if you miss you must recheck things otherwise the miss becomes habitual.

The guide that killed a griz with a 9mm did it because he stayed in control and placed all his shots into the bear.

 

[Mobuck]

I don't care who you are or how good you are or even if you're the sort who engages in gunfights on a regular basis, any expectations of precise aiming and accurate shooting are likely to be a remote spec on the horizon when you're confronted with a justifiable shooting scenario.
I (and others who care to admit it) have missed "gimme shots" at game for no known reason. I fully expect to miss during a FTF gunfight and I'm not afraid to admit this. Expecting or advising another that an under powered, single action, low round count handgun will win a gunfight is gambling more than I care for. Just my opinion.

 

[mikld]

For my way of thinking, if I had to shoot a bad guy I would want him to stop whatever he is doing right now, with as few rounds as possible. I sincerely doubt if anybody, even drug free, without adrenaline pumping will be stopped with one shot from a 22 lr or less than 12.Yeah, mebbe the bad guy will succumb to a wound from a 22 lr at some time, but he will probable be able to take your Bearcat away from you and beat you to death with it.

My personal defense weapon varies between my 9mm with 124 gr JHPs @ 1,150 fps, a 1911 with 200 gr SWC to 1,000 fps, or my 38 Special loaded with 150 gr DEWC to 900+ fps, and I practice with all three...

I'm 72 years old; too young to die and too old to take a whoopin'...