Shotgun for home defense

[Hillbilly Jim]

Love that address Cut'N Shoot.
In my 70 plus years and ownership of a number of Mossbergs I have never broken a safety, not saying it cant happen just that it has never happened to me.
Most of the people I see who have gun problems when you get down to the bare facts we find that operator error is the problem.
Always read the manuals and follow the instructions. Treat firearms as if they were made of gold. Protect them and they will serve you well.

 

[Big John]

If you're not familiar with it you may want to Google "Joe Horn shooting." Essentially Mr. Horn shot and killed a couple of burglars on his daughter's front lawn with his "dove gun." I never got deep enough into the details, but I would assume it was a 12 ga., probably plugged for three rounds, and probably loaded with bird shot. My guess is the legal result of Mr. Horn's case would have been significantly different if he'd confronted the burglars with a "tactical" shotgun loaded with eight rounds of 00 buckshot.

 

[Hillbilly Jim]

Assumptions and probably's dont count for nothing. Guessing is just that an uneducated comment by a person equivalent to a stab into the dark.
No I am not familiar the Joe Horn case, but do know enough that when I am on the stand I dont guess or make assumptions unless I have been qualified and accepted as an expert witness.

 

[Major T]

My bedroom gun is also an A-5, 22" with Lyman chokeloaded with copper plated #2 shot. I also have a model 12 that came with the 20" riot barrel that someone added a Cutts compensator to. I suppose the A-5 is an old friend that I have had since 1963 and it has never let me down. I also have a 26" vent rib hunting barrel for it. I am also fond of older 870s. Mine lives at my younger daughters house to negate the need for me hauling a shotgun back and forth to the ranch. With an 18 or 20" barrel, it would serve well. Those mentioned are all 12 ga, but the 20s work well too.

Be safe,

Jack

 

[DGW1949]

I remember the Joe Horn case.
It revolved around two main points, and "what type of shot gun was used?" had nothing to do with it....namely, the burglary which prompted the chain of events neither happened on his property, or on property "under his control"...nor did it occur at night time....both of which are necessary elements relative to the "legal use" of deadly force to "prevent the consequences of theft" in Texas.

DGW

 

[vito]

I was asked what model Mossberg 500 I bought. Was able to bring it home today, it is a "Persuader" model. I bought two boxes of Federal 00 buck and a shotgun cleaning rod so now I should be great to go. Thanks for all the good advice re shotguns. BTW, I mentioned to the gunsmith in the gunstore about the plastic safety and about replacing it with a metal one. He suggested I wait until I need to do so, stating that he has worked on many, many of these guns and can't recall ever having to replace that piece. So for now I'll just see how it goes. I also bought a Shotlock to secure the gun in my closet and hopefully will get it set up in the next couple of days.

 

[Snake45]

Rather than blasting up your expensive Federal 00, I suggest you buy a couple boxes of the cheapest "target" loads you can find in your area, and run those through your gun while you get used to the operation and feel of the thing. After 50 or 100 rounds of the cheap stuff, then blast a few of your 00s just to get the feel of them and then put the rest of them away for Doomsday (and it IS coming).

And buy that Ayoob Stressfire II book I mentioned above. You can thank me later.

 

[GunnyGene]

I was asked what model Mossberg 500 I bought. Was able to bring it home today, it is a "Persuader" model. I bought two boxes of Federal 00 buck and a shotgun cleaning rod so now I should be great to go. Thanks for all the good advice re shotguns. BTW, I mentioned to the gunsmith in the gunstore about the plastic safety and about replacing it with a metal one. He suggested I wait until I need to do so, stating that he has worked on many, many of these guns and can't recall ever having to replace that piece. So for now I'll just see how it goes. I also bought a Shotlock to secure the gun in my closet and hopefully will get it set up in the next couple of days.

Nice gun. I'm sure you'll like it. Nearly identical to my old Mariner (which still has the original safety button after nearly 26 years of use and abuse). I'd suggest getting a inexpensive sling for it, since it is on the heavy side when fully loaded. I also agree w/Snake on the target ammo process. Walmart here has a sale on 7 1/2 shot. 100 rds of Winchester for about $27.

 

[vito]

Thanks for all the recommendations. As to a sling, there does not appear to be any place to attach a traditional sling. I see a little nub on the stock that I guess one could tie a loop of something in, but nowhere on the front section of the gun to attach anything.

Right now I am awaiting the chance to go with a friend to his shotgun range/club so I can get the feel of firing this gun. Then I need to figure out how to dissemble and clean it (the owner's manual is not too clear to me). Then I will feel more comfortable loading it up and having it ready in my home.

 

[GunnyGene]

Thanks for all the recommendations. As to a sling, there does not appear to be any place to attach a traditional sling. I see a little nub on the stock that I guess one could tie a loop of something in, but nowhere on the front section of the gun to attach anything.

You'll need sling swivels to attach to the little nubs. One on the butt stock and one on the magazine cap. You can get these at any decent gun shop or on-line for a few $, depending on brand. I think Walmart even carries them.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1398331116/uncle-mikes-quick-detachable-super-sling-swivel-set

 

[kevin masten]

Lots of outstanding answers on the shotgun.

Get one. Be comfortable with it. It will be the best hall sweeper and house cleaner you can own. Don 't need any thing fancy on it, such as sights, etc. just point instinctively and let her go if the need arises.

Pump would be best for home defense as there would not likely
be an accidental second shot.

Just my opinion.

Regards to all.

 

[GunnyGene]

Lots of outstanding answers on the shotgun.

Get one. Be comfortable with it. It will be the best hall sweeper and house cleaner you can own. Don 't need any thing fancy on it, such as sights, etc. just point instinctively and let her go if the need arises.

Pump would be best for home defense as there would not likely
be an accidental second shot.

Just my opinion.

Regards to all.

Like has been said; 00buck will remove flesh from bone, and your men will see what you had for breakfast.

Just be prepared to clean up the mess. :wink:

 

[Jeepnik]

Lots of outstanding answers on the shotgun.

Get one. Be comfortable with it. It will be the best hall sweeper and house cleaner you can own. Don 't need any thing fancy on it, such as sights, etc. just point instinctively and let her go if the need arises.

Pump would be best for home defense as there would not likely
be an accidental second shot.

Just my opinion.

Regards to all.

Like has been said; 00buck will remove flesh from bone, and your men will see what you had for breakfast.

Just be prepared to clean up the mess. :wink:

Pretty much always a mess no matter what someone gets shot with. Even a .22 can cause quite a bit of blood loss if things go well. Murder on carpets and hardwoods. Tile is better, and linoleum is better still. The walls on the other hand pretty much need the drywall removed and replaced. Let's not discuss lath and plaster, that's even more work. Just saying. :twisted:

 

[9x19]

Random thought:

Does homeowner's insurance cover blood clean-up? Hmmm....

 

[Cordite]

Does homeowner's insurance cover blood clean-up? Hmmm....

That would be a fun phone call to your insurance agent....

Cordite

 

[Coyote Hunter]

Someone suggested slugs for home defense. I wouldn't use a slug on a bet, for several reasons.

The first is the recoil is very obnoxious with every slug I've ever shot. (Lighter slugs with sabots might lessen the recoil, haven't ever tried one.) Recovery time after firing a slug can be significant.

For the same reason, I'd stay away from heavy turkey loads. I once bought a box of 10 3-1/2" Winchester turkey loads. To say they were brutal in the recoil department would be like calling the Mississippi river a creek. I thought the finger guard broke my middle finger. (After many years I still have 9 rounds left and will probably never fire one again as I don't turkey hunt.)

The second reason to avoid slugs is they penetrate like there is no tomorrow. Through your walls and into the kid's bedroom, the car in the garage or the neighbor's house.

A long barreled shotgun is also not what you want in confined quarters. Or at least not what I would want.

I have several boxes of 00 buckshot but would not be afraid to use smaller shot. At very close range any shot size will be devastating. At longer distances the shot will start to spread and larger shot would be preferred. I think a good minimum would be lead BB (0.18") or steel T (0.20") but I'd feel better with #4 lead (0.24") buckshot. My choice of stocking 00 buckshot was one of convenience - it is what was available at the time of purchase. (I do have a lot of T shot leftover from when I was active hunting duck/goose.)

In the end it is probably most important that the shooter use something they can handle and are comfortable with. The only way to determine that by shooting the loads.

 

[DGW1949]

Random thoughts from the FWIW Dept:

Plain-Jane, 12 GA, 2-3/4", 9-pellet 00 Buck is some bad stuff that works great against unarmored targets. We used it for years in the deer woods of Alabama. There's also a 2-3/4", 12-pelet load available for those who might care to seek it out. We used to call them "short magnums". The down side is that they cost more and kick a lot more.....plus, my early testing indicated that they don't pattern as well at distance, leastways, that was case with Remington's version.
Continuing down the payload VS recoil path...I've shot a few of the true 3"-magnum, 15-pellet 00 Buck loads, enough to say for sure that it takes a tougher guy than me to use them things...meaning that to me, they're even more obnoxious to shoot than a common slug-load.

On the opposite end of the scale, there's some "reduced recoil" buck shot loads on the market these days which are in fact, much easier on the shooter than a "regular" load. I've tested the Remington "00" version and the Federal 00 "Law Enforcement" version, and found that they both work just as advertised. Of course, the laws of physics dictates that softer recoil comes at a price. In this case, the price is paid by reducing the powder charge and topping it off with only 8 pellets instead of 9. On the surface, that don't seem like much to give up, and in fact, I'm perty-sure that the folks who are concerned about "too much penetration" would consider it a bonus. In my case though, my initial testing showed it to be unacceptable... meaning that neither brand had enough power to reliably work the action of my Remington 1100, 18-1/2" riot gun, so I traded-off what I had left rather than test it any further.
Still though, it might be something for the pump-gun guys to consider.

And just in passing, perceived recoil relative to any given load has a lot to do with both the weight of one's gun, and how much drop the butt stock has (or don't have). In other words, lighter guns are easier to handle, but heavier guns tend to have less "kick".

Just some stuff to consider before plunkin' down your money.
Hope it helped someone.

DGW

 

[Big John]

Joe Horn was 'no billed' by the Grand Jury, so they determined his actions to be legal in the context of the laws of the land at the time. He was never charged with a crime. That's why we don't know the length, shot size, and dram equivalent of the shells he used. That would have been evidence in a court case, but since he was never charged with a crime, that was never made public. The point which I obviously failed to make was some times the firearm and/or ammunition used can influence opinion. Especially Public opinion. And unfortunately some times Public opinion can carry the day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy

 

[GunnyGene]

Joe Horn was 'no billed' by the Grand Jury, so they determined his actions to be legal in the context of the laws of the land at the time. He was never charged with a crime. That's why we don't know the length, shot size, and dram equivalent of the shells he used. That would have been evidence in a court case, but since he was never charged with a crime, that was never made public. The point which I obviously failed to make was some times the firearm and/or ammunition used can influence opinion. Especially Public opinion. And unfortunately some times Public opinion can carry the day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy

An old case, but of course the gun/ammo can effect the outcome. Witness the current outrage about AR's, etc.

I don't care about "Public Opinion". The Public is often wrong. What I carry or use is not up for debate, or subject to the opinions of the Public. :roll:

 

[CaliforniaKid]

Maybe someone else remembers the article out a few years back, I couldn't find it, that tested different shot sizes in home defense and on household materials. Pretty much everything, if I remember correctly, went through a drywall wall. From number 8 shot to 00 buck from 0-15 feet. It was thought that in your home the target would be so close that the pellets had no time to even start to open up and pretty much all hit as a 1-1/4 oz. mass. 00 buck and slugs would be the last thing I would use in a subdivision or a home with children sleeping inside due to excessive penetration. If your out in the country and it's just the 2 of ya, then load what ya want.

As far as the Mossberg 500's go they are good reliable performers. Not as smooth as a Remington wingmaster but that's not really an issue in a self defense situation. Barrels for the 500 are cheap and readily available from Midway or any number of other venders and an 18-1/2 barrel is just about right. The synthetic stocked 500's in 12 ga. make practice with high base shot shells hard on ya after a while, their so light, but again practice, as someone mentioned, with low base target loads before you load your defense rounds.

I myself prefer a revolver for home defense, no magazine springs to weaken, no failure to feeds, no getting stuck turning around in a narrow hallway etc. but that's just me. The revolver I chose is a stainless steel Security Six in .357 magnum. 158 grn semi-jacketed hollow points or 158 grn keith style wad-cutters. I don't think either of those will fail me. I figure if six rounds isn't enough to get the job done then maybe I should be the one to start running. The main thing is use what your the most comfortable with and practice, practice, practice.