Shotgun for home defense
- Thread starter vito
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Slugs and 00 bucks will go thru a wall an into your neighbor if your not careful then you are held liable for that. #4 buck shot is good and even a bird shot works also. Given most shootings inside homes are 30' or less bird shot will cause enough visceral damage death is almost imminent.
vito said:
My thoughts on your quesrtions, in no particular offer:
Short/light shotguns are easier to maneuver than say, a full-sized duck gun...but all else being equal, light-weight guns kick harder than heavy guns.
You couldn't run me down and give me a shotgun that don't have a butt stock. Reason is, it's no longer a shotgun, it's just an ungainly pistol which requires both hands to operate and happens to use shot cartridges.
16 GA shotguns are prohibitively-expensive to shoot/practice with these days, and that's assuming that you could even find any HD ammo to keep it loaded with.
Most of today's 20 GA guns are much lighter/smaller than 12 GA guns, so there aint as much difference in recoil between the two as you may think.
Contrary to internet wisdom, pump shotguns can (and will) jam-up if not handled properly, meaning that ya can't just buy one and stick it away...ya gotta practice with it, and learn how to un-jam it...Plus, an attacker is not going to crap his pants and run away just because he heard you "rack in" that first round. What he very-well may do instead though, is shoot you because you've foolishly drawn attention to yourself.
Going about a dark house with a tacti-cool light attached to your gun can have the same (bad) outcome, meaning that most killers are going to simply shoot towards the light source because they know that you are right behind it.
There's a lot of scuttlebutt that gets tossed about these days relative to shot size, penetration, stopping power, possible law suits, what if this, what if that, etc, etc, and on and on.
FWIW, my own take on all of that stuff is this;
The very first guy that I ever had to shoot was shot with a .410 shotgun which happened to be loaded with a Winchester 3" #4 "rabbit shot" cartridge. I hit him center mass at a distance of about 3 feet, but other than causing him to turn and run away into the darkness, it had absolutely no other effect. And run he did...meaning that neither I, my neighbor, nor the cops could find him. Fact is, had he not decided to seek medical treatment from the local hospital a few days later, he never would have been found....Point being that I was very lucky that he didn't kill me after being shot, which he could have easily done had he not chosen to run instead.
Now, maybe a heavier payload of the same size shot launched from a 20 or 12 GA would have worked better...I dunno, so I can't say for sure ...but what I CAN say for sure is that I for one, aint betting my life on something that's designed to kill birds and rabbits ever again. Been there, done that already...and once was plenty enough.
Remington, Federal, Winchester, and a few others market "reduced recoil" 12 GA buckshot loads these days. I've tried the Remington and Federal versions and yep, they do indeed kick a lot less than "regular" buck shot. On the other hand, they also penetrate less....plus, neither brand had enough power to reliably function my Remington 1100 Riot Gun.
Still though, they might be cat's meyow for someone with a pump-gun who's worried about recoil, or about shooting clean-though their house.
Make no mistake, fighting for your life IS a form of combat, meaning that it's a serious business which should be taken seriously....so be carefull that you don't fall too far into the "tacti-cool" trap, meaning that a lot of the stuff I see people sticking on their guns these days is not only useless in real life, but could easily get you killed if/when it fails to work as advertised, or breaks due to the gun being dropped, getting banged-around, or a battery dies, or????....plus, all of that stuff cost money which would be better spent by getting some training, or more ammo....just sayin'.
Hope something here helped...but if not, hey...it didn't cost nothin' extra.
DGW
Snake45 said:
I have to concur about StressFire II. It came out in the early 90's so some of the photos of Mas are entertaining. But the material is still as valid as ever.
Hillbilly Jim
Bearcat
I agree with a lot of the above, however the racking of a pump is dumb, gives away your position , means you have one less shell capacity, and generally identifies you to the BG as an novice.
Use no4 or larger shot and remember you can miss with a shotgun {guess how I know} so practice. Use your low recoil loads for practice, but for defensive loads go for power. You may only get one chance so recoil wont be much of a factor.
Use no4 or larger shot and remember you can miss with a shotgun {guess how I know} so practice. Use your low recoil loads for practice, but for defensive loads go for power. You may only get one chance so recoil wont be much of a factor.
ProfessorWes
Hunter
Tenbore said:
My worst experience with recoil, bar none, involved a pistol-grip 18" Mossberg Persuader and 3" magnum 00 buck. That was the first, and last, time I've ever shot a PG-only 12 or 20 gauge. PG shotguns really require Schwarzenegger-sized wrists to control them, at least for more than a couple of shots. And I don't have a Terminator build, alas.
A full-length stock, to me, doesn't seriously impact the maneuverability of the gun indoors, and even if you don't shoulder the shotgun you can still tuck the stock under your armpit when shooting and still have much more control over it.
Anyway, being an apartment dweller, the first round in the magazine (I prefer to keep the chamber empty) of the full-stocked Mossberg 500 I use for a house gun is Hevi-Shot's "Personal Defense" T-shot, which will probably be about as effective at typical home-defense ranges as buckshot with less chance of overpenetration. The other four rounds in the magazine are low-brass Federal Tactical double-ought.
buckeyeshooter
Blackhawk
just call me 'old school'. Sawed off double barrel in 3.5 inch 10 gauge.
buckeyeshooter said:
I have a great great uncle that was a sheriff in Nevada. Never lost a gunfight. Always carried a short barreled double. Then again, I don't really think all that many even thought about arguing with it so he might not have had many (any) gunfights.
While I wouldn't feel completely unarmed with a double of any persuasion (my favorite double is my Citori) I like semi autos.
SAJohn
Hunter
Here is mine:
An 18.5" barrel Browning A-5 Belgian. You stick your finger into the trigger guard, push forward to release the safety, then start pulling back to unleash hell on earth.
Jeepnix and I think alike.
John
An 18.5" barrel Browning A-5 Belgian. You stick your finger into the trigger guard, push forward to release the safety, then start pulling back to unleash hell on earth.
Jeepnix and I think alike.
John
Taterman said:
Why only two?
Went to a local gunstore and bought a Mossberg 500, with a 20 inch barrel and 8 round tube. I liked the feel of this gun, and it seemed lighter than the comparable Remington 870 with an 18 inch barrel, but a capacity of only 5 rounds. With the 8 round capacity I don't think I need any additional ammo holder for this gun which will be sitting in my closet. Now I just need to get out to the range with my friend so I can see what its like to shoot. The price was $375 new, which was $125 less than Gander Mountain.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
vito said:
Which model?
Don't know the model beyond 500. Being this is IL, I have to wait until Monday to pick up the gun and then I can look for the model name. It has a regular stock, in black polymer, and just the bead front sight. One of the reasons I preferred the Mossberg to the slightly shorter Remington is the location of the manual safety. Being on top of the gun rather than a button near the trigger, I think makes it less likely that I would accidentally engage the safety. I also ordered on Amazon a Truglo fiber optic snap on sight for $20.
GunnyGene
Hawkeye
vito said:
Ok. I have an older 590 Mariner. Basically the same gun. Here's a bit of a tip if you aren't aware of it. The loading port on the Mossbergs has pretty sharp edges, so you'll probably want to do your thumb a favor and bevel & smooth it slightly. This has the added advantage of making combat reloading a little better in terms of finding the port with a shell also.
A very fine tooth file (round file for the corners) is all you need to do this, just disassemble the receiver so you don't get any shavings in the works.
Here's a pic of the area that should be beveled (the shiny areas).
pisgah
Buckeye
vito said:
Hope you have better luck with it than I have. It has flown off of 3 shotguns after one shot. Snap on, fly off!
Jeepnik said:
For some reason, I still have the wooden plug in the tube to limit shells required for hunting in IL.
It holds 5 normally, but with the wood dowel only 2. I don't keep one in the chamber. No kids here so there's a couple extra shells sitting out nearby.
vito said:
I've had and/or used several different Mossberg Model 500 shotguns in the past, enough to say that all in all, they are good shotguns.
That said though, one of the things that's always troubled me about that particular model is the plastic "thumb-button" which they use to activate the safety mechanism. While I've never had one break on me personally, I do know that it's happened to others, and I do know that I've seen enough Model 500's that were missing their buttons to know that it is indeed, a potential problem.
I said all the above, to say this;
If yours has the same plastic button as the older versions, and if you perceive it to be a potential problem, there are metal replacement buttons available. The last one I bought came from Numerich (Gun Parts Corp).....but it could be that Brownells and others may offer them also. As far as that goes, a guy that's handy with files and a drill could probably fashion his own from a piece of key stock.
Might be something to chew on....if ya get my drift.
DGW
My problem with the thumb button is not that it's plastic, but that it's unusually STIFF to move. At least it is on the three that I own.DGW1949 said:
I'm thinking it should be a fairly easy home gunsmith fix to smooth out the detent surface a little, if I ever get around to it.
The other bad thing about that button is, if you want to put a pistol grip "assault style" stock on your gun (which many like and say reduces felt recoil), it becomes inaccessible and for all practical purposes useless, except perhaps as a weak "lock" for storage.
Hey Snake;
I have to admit that I never really paid much attention to how stiff this or that safety on a Mossberg might be (or not)...only that it stay where I wanted it to stay.
But hey, now that you mentioned it, it might-well be that the one's that I've seen with missing buttons were also suffering from an overly-stiff safety mechanism.....meaning that I can see where that might have been the underlying problem all along.
DGW
I have to admit that I never really paid much attention to how stiff this or that safety on a Mossberg might be (or not)...only that it stay where I wanted it to stay.
But hey, now that you mentioned it, it might-well be that the one's that I've seen with missing buttons were also suffering from an overly-stiff safety mechanism.....meaning that I can see where that might have been the underlying problem all along.
DGW
