I am beginning to see...............

[Bob Wright]

I have pondered the amount of interest lately in the .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible Blackhawk and/or Vaquero. I have two of theseses, one a 7 1/2" and the other 4 5/8", both set up with Super Blackhawk grip frames.

I had just gotten rid of a Colt Gold Cup and a Smith & Wesson Model 625, and had a good lot of .45 ACP brass on hand. So I bought the Blackhawk Convertible. Ran through the ACP brass, took out the ACP cylinder and never put it back in. So what is all the fuss about having an ACP cylinder?

Now I've learned of a cartridge, and a valid reason for the ACP cylinder, other than having a pile of ACP brass. This cartridge is fairly new, though I've not seen nor tired it: the .45 Cowboy Special. The .45 Cowboy Special is described as having the ACP case with a .45 Colt head and rim. And from what I've read, it can be fired in either .45 Colt or .45 ACP cylinders.

The whole idea behind th cartridge is that it can be loaded with light bullets and very mild powder charges, giving .45 users recoil comparable to users of .38 caliber revolvers. This for Cowboy Action type of shooting.

Those who have written up about it claim there is a slight accuracy gain when used in the ACP cylinder, with its longer throat, than in the Colt cylinder, where the bullet travels unsupported in the longer chamber. Thus this round can be used without counterboring the cylinder, as would be the case with Auto Rim ammunition.

So far as I know, it is not available as loaded ammunition, but brass is available from Starline.

Bob Wright

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have one (1) piece of .45 Cowboy brass. I believe it was a special run for a forum member here or on Paco Kelleys Leverguns forum. I used to know his handle but
can't remember it. Someone will chime in with that info,I am sure.
I think I read once that he was sold out of it though. .45 Cowboy special 's short case length allows a handy,short barreled CAS rifle to hold the needed 10 rounds. It has very little other advantage over the ACP.
I own several BH convertibles and three pairs of Vaquero convertibles.one BH , a 6" flat top is very accurate and with RCBS 230 SA cast and sized .451 will cluster six shots into one ragged hole at 25 yd. I find the .45 convertibles to be a great gun and very versatile and fun shooters.

 

[eveled]

Don't know anything about the new brass you found.

For me the appeal of the acp cylinder was ammo compatibility. Nice to go to the range, with a Blackhawk, and a 1911, and only one type of ammo. Then I realized how good it shoots, and how easy those stubby fat cartridges are to load and unload. They almost fall out of the loading gate without the ejector rod. It quickly became a favorite.

If I am shooting my double action revolvers I take my .357 Blackhawk.

I think an old model mid frame flat top with an acp cylinder would be the ultimate. .45acp and single action revolver is a match made in heaven IMHO.

What I don't understand is all the fuss over .45acp double action revolvers. Other than the 1917 military models, I don't see the appeal. I'd rather the same gun in .357 cut for moon clips, so I can go either way, instead of being stuck using only clips. In the case of Nframe S&W revolvers you gain 2 shots. I'll take 8 .357's over 6 .45's any day.

Like anything else it boils down to personal preference, nice to have choices.

 

[contender]

eveled,,, one of the big reasons the 45 acp DA guns are popular is revolver competition.

Now,,, I haven't seen any of this new brass,,, but I have a few Ruger convertibles to where it'd not be an issue for me.

 

[s4s4u]

I see no advantage whatsoever in the 45 Cowboy over the 45 acp if you already have the acp cylinder and acp ammo or brass. If you only have the Colt cylinder you can load down Colt brass to "cowboy" levels, so again I see no real need for it. Accuracy would be better with the full length brass as well. Looks like a solution in search of a problem to me.

 

[Jim Puke]

I see no advantage whatsoever in the 45 Cowboy over the 45 acp if you already have the acp cylinder and acp ammo or brass. If you only have the Colt cylinder you can load down Colt brass to "cowboy" levels, so again I see no real need for it. Accuracy would be better with the full length brass as well. Looks like a solution in search of a problem to me.

I concur...

But then, I see no use for a convertible, either.

 

[s4s4u]

But then, I see no use for a convertible, either.

I shoot my acp cylinder a lot. It cost less to load than 45 Colt and allows me to leave my Colt loading setup alone. No need for changing from heavy loads to plinking loads for the kids, just swap the cylinder.

 

[toroflow]

The .45 Cowboy brass is out of production now, but there is a gent who has the remaining bulk of it who is selling it off. I bought some about 8 years ago for use in my Uberti "Thunderer" .45 Colt (birdshead grip, 3.5" barrel). I use this brass exclusively in this gun, it makes for a pleasant shooting load.

As for the convertible Blackhawk 45, I bought my first in 1978 and used the ACP cylinder exclusively for the first 20 years! Now I own a couple, so one is regulated to shoot Long Colt ammo, and another the ACP ammo. Their cylinders never get changed.

 

[dixie884]

Adirondack Jack, was the guy's handle. He got starline to make a run of it. The next run was made by some one with a online store. All of the brass that is left is being sold as loaded ammo. By a small boutique ammo maker that bought the rights to the name. I don't think anyone else can have it made by starline, as they usually won't make brass in a case like this.
They wouldn't make any .41spl as long as I had it for sale from my special run.

 

[tinman]

I like my RH convertible in both calibers but the GF likes the ACP cyl. best. Nuff said?

 

[jsh]

I had to have one to unload my test ammo for my 625. I tinkered around with several different loads and bullet types. I had a several coffee cans full of ammo that did t meet my standards on paper.

 

[Hondo44]

The single action 45 ACP convertible cylinder opens up an almost bewildering array of options with some mentioned above, all of which retain the ability to still shoot 45 ACP:

1. The most common is a way to shoot more, and cheaply with less expensive ACP ammo or already owned stockpiles of ACP.


2. Also a way to shoot low and medium 45 Colt loads with more efficient shorter cases and the advantage of better accuracy with the longer cyl throats. This includes:

A. 45 Cowboy Spl cases if one has them, or
B. Starline 45 Schofield cases which are abundant and can be shortened to ACP length w/o the problem of shortening 45 Colt cases with the attendant thick necks of shortening long cases, or
C. thinning the 45 AR case head from the front side, and trimming the case mouths an equal amount

3. By facing off the rear of the cyl for additional headspace, one can also have all of the following:

A. shoot 45 AR with unmodified brass, or
B. shoot 45 ACP loaded in full moon clips for rapid speed loading/unloading for self defense or whatever by swapping cyls. This being substantially faster than one-at-a-time loading and unloading, or
C. shoot 45 Cowboy Spl cases, or Starline 45 Schofield cases trimmed to ACP length, with either taper crimped to headspace on the case mouth/chamber shoulder.

I think that covers all the options.

 

[eveled]

eveled,,, one of the big reasons the 45 acp DA guns are popular is revolver competition.

Makes sense. Thanks

 

[Joe S.]

the biggest plus I see to ACP (or cowboy special) is that a pocketful of ACP equals more rounds than a pocketful of 45 Colt... other wise, I like the Colt rounds.

 

[tulsamal]

I don't own a SA model but being able to use both in a DA is nice. My S&W 625 Mountain Gun in .45 Colt was machined for moon clips. I planned to switch back and forth with .45 ACP and .45 Colt but the POA/POI was so different between them... I just stick to .45 ACP. I'm 1000x not Jerry but it is fun to load and unload quickly with full moon clips.

G

 

[dixie884]

American Cowboy ammo out of San Antonio Tx. is the new purveyer of Cowboy.45 special They have both loaded ammo and new Starline brass for sale.

 

[NorEaster]

Am I understanding the posts correctly... if someone has a DA revolver chambered for .45ACP could they then use the .45 Cowboy Special brass in it?
What about using .45 auto rim?

 

[toroflow]

Am I understanding the posts correctly... if someone has a DA revolver chambered for .45ACP could they then use the .45 Cowboy Special brass in it?
What about using .45 auto rim?

No, for a DA 45 ACP, you can use 45 auto rim only, as it has a thicker rim than 45 Cowboy. The nice thing about 45 Cowboy brass is it is used in 45 LC cylinders. Kind of like a 45 ACP round with a rim for use in 45 LC.

 

[Huhwhat?]

For light loads, I use .45 Schofield brass. Keep in mind, though, with the wider diameter rim, it will likely fit in Rugers, but smaller Colt single actions clones may not have the room to fit six rounds.

 

[Hondo44]

All Schofield brass fit in any 45 Colt cylinder; they were made to use in both S&W and Colt 45s. But the 45 Short Colt by Remington will not work in S&W because the rim is too small to properly eject.

You may be thnking of the US .45 Svc Cartridge from ~1909 designed with extra diameter rims to eject reliably in the Colt New Svc DA revolver. I don't think they work in 45 single actions. This was the army's stop gap measure following the .38 fiasco in the Philipines and until the 45 ACP hit the streets.