Cold storage and die contraction

[Digger]

This may be a silly question, but I'm looking for someone to confirm or deny a suspicion of mine. I reload in an unheated basement below an addition. It is unheated and poorly insulated, so in the winter it ranges from probably 45 to 50 degrees in there. I understand that the cold shouldn't be a problem, but I wonder if it isn't the culprit with the following problem:

Twice when re-sizing once fired brass in late January or February (when the basement is the coldest) I have found it impossible to size the brass. It is openly with massive force that I can get a case into a die, and when I didn't know enough to stop I broke a decapping stem. I have not had this problem sizing new brass in the winter. I store all my components in the basement. Brass contracts less than iron so, is it possible that the sustained cold has contracted the steel dies just that much more than the brass that it is causing the problem? Under this theory the new brass has not expanded at all and still fits in the contracted die.

So what say you reloaders? Should I go looking for another cause, or should I plan on keeping dies, brass, and bullets in heated space until it's time for use?

Thanks.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

It won't hurt anything keeping them warm, but I can't imagine it would help much, either. The amount metal is going to swell or shrink in "normal" temperature ranges shouldn't have that large of an effect. Now if one were stored in the freezer and the other next to the furnace, maybe, but even then, the brass should still give.

I just had a seriously hard time resizing some .45-70 brass, and yes, it was cold. But I also found that my decapping stem got pushed off center, and I was probably jamming it against the case head, not the primer pocket. I also wasn't using enough lube on the cases. Once I fixed those two things I was good to go.

In my case I found that Hornady One-Shot or even Imperial Resizing Wax didn't give me enough lubrication with the big .45-70 cases. When I went back to the good old RCBS wet lube and pad everything went, well, smoothly.

-- Sam

 

[Digger]

Wow. Thanks, YS. That's really good to hear, as i was actually sizing .45-70, was using just a touch of Hornady One Shot lube (also cold), and I thought the decapping stem was a little off center.

It's almost like you were looking in my window. You weren't, were you?

:shock: :lol:

 

[c.r.]

If temperature is the culprit, i'd be much more inclined to think the temp was effecting the lube rather than causing the die to contract.

imho, it's more likely you were using too little of a touch of the Hornady One Shot Lube. I use the One Shot Lube, and I do need to spray a bit more than I expected for it to work, BUT when i get it right........ everything operates smoothly

~c.r.

 

[tek4260]

Was it hard the whole way or only when the decapping pin hit the case rather than the flash hole? And, cold weather will make the case lube "sticky" and that little bit of extra resistance can feel like a lot.

 

[Digger]

It difficult from the get go, Tek. Having thought about it over night, I suspect that you and YS are correct and that it is the lube that is the problem. I was probably under-estimating what was needed for the .45-70 and what I was using was probably less that perfectly effective due to the cold.

Thanks.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Sounds like that may be the culprit in my case, too. I may have gone a little light with the One-Shot, and being cold didn't help things. Also, I've taken to really using "one" shot of the stuff on pistol brass prior to running it through carbide dies, so am used to applying it sparingly.

Funny though, that two people ran into this at nearly the same time, with the same cases. Let's see, I was doing mine last Saturday, maybe 2pm PST? Loading on a Rockchucker?

-- Sam

 

[Digger]

Well, I was using a Rockchucker, but was doing mine at 6:00pm EST last night.

Still, there's more than a few coincidences here. If someone else chimes in with the same problem and same components, we're going to have to start looking for a connection with all the bird die-offs of late. :wink:

 

[MidLife]

For most of my life, I thought the phrase "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey" was a just made up funny line, however, it actually does have a legitimate basis.

However, unfortunately, this has been discredited by the royal navy.....

Sure sounded plausible, didn't it!

 

[Bucks Owin]

I like to center the decapping pin by running a case into the die, then loosen the decapping pin lockring and while pulling the case back over the expander, keeping tension on it, retighten the lockring. Then you're good to go.. :wink:

As to cold shrinkage of the dies, IMO a non issue....

I can see where you may need to use a different lube though....

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

You guys have gotten me curious... guess I'll put a set of dies in the freezer for a while then install 'em and see what happens.

I don't suspect much difference, but I learn something new every day!

Before doing that though, may I suggest you try a trick I heard about years and years ago:

First, make sure your dies are clean inside. It's not unusual to have a buildup of lube in the die that acts just like bullet lube on .22s does w/ my Mk II. In warm weather, it feeds perfectly. In near freezing temps, the lube builds up on the feed ramp and it jams. Similar idea w/ your dies...

Then, take a single, clean case, and lube it w/ just a touch of oil. Rub a drop between fingers and thumb and that oughta be enough. Put a drop on a Q-tip to do the inside of the neck.

Run the case thru the die. If your experience is like mine, it'll go thru slicker'n any of the standard lubes. And it that happens, you pretty much know it's a lube problem.

Be sure to clean the case well after using any oil, particularly inside the neck, so you don't contaminate your powder.

That little "test" has proven to me that a bit more of my chosen lube CAN make a huge difference...

Rick C

 

[Digger]

Buds Owin, that's a good tip for centering the decapper pin. I'll give that a shot.

Rick, I'm curious to here the results of the "deep freeze" test, although I suspect you are all correct that cool to cold dies aren't the issue.

I do clean my dies before each use and oil them when I'm finished. So, I don't think that was it, but it certainly won't hurt to give them a good cleaning.

 

[mattsbox99]

Its a lube issue, if you use Redding/Imperial Die Wax you won't have any more problems.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Its a lube issue, if you use Redding/Imperial Die Wax you won't have any more problems.

... In my case I found that Hornady One-Shot or even Imperial Resizing Wax didn't give me enough lubrication with the big .45-70 cases. When I went back to the good old RCBS wet lube and pad everything went, well, smoothly.

-- Sam

Hmm...

-- Sam

 

[mattsbox99]

If Imperial doesn't work for you, then you don't know how to lube cases.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

If Imperial doesn't work for you, then you don't know how to lube cases.

Considering the directions consist of "Use very sparingly", would you care you use your obviously greater intellect and world class knowledge of, well, everything, to teach others?

Or do you prefer the simple playground retort?

-- Sam