Who knoweth?

[Bob Wright]

Just recently watched a Youtube video of Gen. Billy Mitchell bombing the battleships. This caused me to wonder: what became of those ships? Were they sunk and still remain on the sea floor? Or were they salvaged for scrap?

Bob Wright

 

[RoninPA]

I would suspect they are still on the bottom. Divers and such are still finding WWII ships, airplanes, etc. on the bottom in the South pacific and around Japan and the islands.

 

[eveled]

there is lots of evidence of ww2 around the world. Here is a gun mount they built condos on.

 

[Colonialgirl]

There was a program on TV where they found the Japanese Battleship (name slips the mind right now) on the ocean floor. They also noted the flower crest on the bow confirming it was that ship.

 

[dannyd]

There still on the bottom east of Hampton Roads, Virginia as far a I know, we would talk about them coming back into Norfolk.

If you want a real surprise lookup how many ships were sunk in the Gulf of Mexico and off the east coast in the Atlantic between December 8, 1941 and December 8, 1943. The United States was definitely unprepared for the German Uboats.

 

[RC44Mag]

there is lots of evidence of ww2 around the world. Here is a gun mount they built condos on. View attachment 31271

That is really cool, do you know where that is?

 

[RC44Mag]

There was a program on TV where they found the Japanese Battleship (name slips the mind right now) on the ocean floor. They also noted the flower crest on the bow confirming it was that ship.

Probably the Yamato. The pride and joy flag ship of the Jap fleet in WWII and died on its 1 way mission to Okinawa to sink as many American ships as possible. She never made it, our Pacific fleet hammered the hell out of her long before Okinawa was sight and deep six she went, found about 5 years ago?

 

[blume357]

"And in your belly, you hold the treasures few have ever seen"...

Jimmy Buffett. from: ' A Pirate Looks at Forty"

there is a lot of stuff down there.... ships and men.... the sea has always been a cruel mistress.

 

[Watertender]

In Lake Michigan near Chicago there were a bunch of planes that were lost in WW2 during training exercises for carrier pilots. Not sure if they are still there. A lot of things have been sunk intentionally to create artificial reefs and also to dispose of war materials. I used to work with a guy who used to dump vehicles off of air craft carriers after WW2. He would put them in gear and let them drive off the edge of the deck. He said they dumped thousands of vehicles so they didn't have to be brought back to the States

 

[eveled]

That is really cool, do you know where that is?

Spinnaker island, Hull Massachusetts. That big opening under the condominiums is huge I think it was were the ammunition was kept. Is now the grounds maintenance area.

It was Fort Duvall on Hog Island before it was called Spinnaker Island.

 

[dannyd]

In Lake Michigan near Chicago there were a bunch of planes that were lost in WW2 during training exercises for carrier pilots. Not sure if they are still there. A lot of things have been sunk intentionally to create artificial reefs and also to dispose of war materials. I used to work with a guy who used to dump vehicles off of air craft carriers after WW2. He would put them in gear and let them drive off the edge of the deck. He said they dumped thousands of vehicles so they didn't have to be brought back to the States

Was a very common practice until the 1970's, when the carrier FDR was going to decommissioned after returning from it's last Mediterranean cruise the guy's pitched every over the side that they didn't want to have to carry off the ship in port.

 

[DeletedMember275]

In Lake Michigan near Chicago there were a bunch of planes that were lost in WW2 during training exercises for carrier pilots. Not sure if they are still there. A lot of things have been sunk intentionally to create artificial reefs and also to dispose of war materials. I used to work with a guy who used to dump vehicles off of air craft carriers after WW2. He would put them in gear and let them drive off the edge of the deck. He said they dumped thousands of vehicles so they didn't have to be brought back to the States

My father was a Seabee stationed on Okinawa when the war ended. He spent his last few days there pushing brand new, still-in-the-crate equipment (trucks, Jeeps, airplanes, etc.) off the pier into the ocean with his bulldozer. When he was finished, he pointed his bulldozer at the water, set the hand-throttle, and stepped off. He said that he was just one of several people doing the same thing, all along the pier.

 

[Bob Wright]

Years ago one of my saddle pals was Chinese (Our "Chinese Cowboy") whose wife was from Kunming or Chunking, and she rememberes a P-40 still at the bottom of a lake there, one of the original Flying Tigers.

Bob Wright

 

[RC44Mag]

Spinnaker island, Hull Massachusetts. That big opening under the condominiums is huge I think it was were the ammunition was kept. Is now the grounds maintenance area.

It was Fort Duvall on Hog Island before it was called Spinnaker Island. View attachment 31289View attachment 31290View attachment 31291View attachment 31292

Very interesting history lesson, I never knew. Thanks
Now we just need batteries like that along our southern border.

 

[coach]

With all the high definition ocean floor mapping being done, they are finding all kinds of wrecks these days

 

[Wyandot Jim]

In Lake Michigan near Chicago there were a bunch of planes that were lost in WW2 during training exercises for carrier pilots. Not sure if they are still there. A lot of things have been sunk intentionally to create artificial reefs and also to dispose of war materials. I used to work with a guy who used to dump vehicles off of air craft carriers after WW2. He would put them in gear and let them drive off the edge of the deck. He said they dumped thousands of vehicles so they didn't have to be brought back to the States

https://navalaviationmuseum.org/things-to-do/aircrafts-galleries/
UNDERWATER TREASURES OF LAKE MICHIGAN
The museum began recovering aircraft from the bottom of Lake Michigan, where they crashed during World War II carrier qualification, in the early 1990s. This exhibit takes visitors to the depths, preserving an F4F Wildcat and SBD Dauntless in the conditions in which they were found after spending decades underwater. A short film produced exclusively for the museum by the History Channel documents the story of Naval Aviation training in the Great Lakes.

https://www.dailyherald.com/storyim...exactH=630&exactW=1200&exactfit=crop&noborder

 

[Jeepnik]

It’s not just under the water. 1973 at George AFB they were enlarging the rifle range. The dozer hit concrete. Turned out it was a WWII munitions bunker, with munitions still inside.

Fast forward to 2010, that same area was being excavated for a new federal prison. Talking to the project manager one afternoon I ask him if he hit any of the bunkers. He looked at me as if I was from another planet so I explained that I was there the “last” time they were found. Fortunately no munitions this time around.

Then there was the German WWII bunker found when they were doing road work at Ramstein AFB in 1975 or 76.

 

[Johnny-Baseball]

The US also dumped trucks and jeeps into Manila Bay after WW II victory. The enterprising Filipinos salvaged those vehicles and made them roadworthy once again. Jeepneys - salvaged jeeps - were jeep-converted taxis that were found all over the Philippines when I was there in 1970. Some of those vehicles - worn out many times over - employed enterprising means to keep running. Wheels and wheel hub replacements could not be found, so the Filipinos simply used a cutting torch to cut off the broken parts, make the needed repairs and weld the parts back onto the jeep. I even watched this cut/repair/weld dance when a jeepney was replacing a tire.

 

[Colonialgirl]

In Lake Michigan near Chicago there were a bunch of planes that were lost in WW2 during training exercises for carrier pilots. Not sure if they are still there. A lot of things have been sunk intentionally to create artificial reefs and also to dispose of war materials. I used to work with a guy who used to dump vehicles off of air craft carriers after WW2. He would put them in gear and let them drive off the edge of the deck. He said they dumped thousands of vehicles so they didn't have to be brought back to the States

Including brand new jeeps and trucks that were still "in the crate" and never used.

 

[DeletedMember275]

I also heard a lot of anecdotal stories about 'excess' vehicles and heavy equipment being buried in Vietnam. A unit convoy would receive fire while en-route. The commander reports X number of vehicles destroyed/abandoned due to the tactical situation. Big Army issues replacements, except that the 'destroyed' vehicles received only superficial damage and are still is use. When it comes time to change locations or return to the States, said unit has 'extra' equipment, which is no longer on the property books. Typically, someone would bribe a buddy in an Engineer unit to dig a big hole, then bury the 'destroyed' trucks in it. If this situation occurred even 10% as frequently as I heard the story, there are (or were) thousands of trucks and pieces of heavy equipment buried in Vietnam. I suspect that the few times it actually did occur, Victor Charles came along right after the soldiers left, and dug the equipment up and put it to use.

 

[4896worker]

My father was a Seabee stationed on Okinawa when the war ended. He spent his last few days there pushing brand new, still-in-the-crate equipment (trucks, Jeeps, airplanes, etc.) off the pier into the ocean with his bulldozer. When he was finished, he pointed his bulldozer at the water, set the hand-throttle, and stepped off. He said that he was just one of several people doing the same thing, all along the pier.

For what it is worth . I was told by my step-father that the manufacturer of the trucks jeeps dozer etc. had it in their contract that the equipment was not to come home after the war and compete with new products. He was a man who was usually right about stuff and not one to spread b.s.

 

[MHtractorguy]

That is exactly why any M151 jeep returned from Viet Nam or later, was cut into 4 pieces diagonally, before being scrapped. We were told it was because they didn't have emission controls.

 

[tbobcar]

Just recently watched a Youtube video of Gen. Billy Mitchell bombing the battleships. This caused me to wonder: what became of those ships? Were they sunk and still remain on the sea floor? Or were they salvaged for scrap?

Bob Wright

I read of scrap steel groups from Indonesia that are hauling hulls
from Iron Bottom Sound and areas around Savo Island, where horendous Naval battles were fought in the Pacific War against Japan.
There were mentions of bones of American and Japanese Sailors and Marines who were killed in those huge shootouts, being tossed on the local beaches.
The information begs the question as to whether the sunken ships comprise "military graveyards" and as such are off limits to grave robbers.
I think it is obscene that remains of those men killed in combat should be wantonly disrespectfully treated.
Anyone know International Maritime Law? How about Inland Waters of Guadalcanal Maritime Law?

 

[bigbillyboy]

I read of scrap steel groups from Indonesia that are hauling hulls
from Iron Bottom Sound and areas around Savo Island, where horendous Naval battles were fought in the Pacific War against Japan.
There were mentions of bones of American and Japanese Sailors and Marines who were killed in those huge shootouts, being tossed on the local beaches.
The information begs the question as to whether the sunken ships comprise "military graveyards" and as such are off limits to grave robbers.
I think it is obscene that remains of those men killed in combat should be wantonly disrespectfully treated.
Anyone know International Maritime Law? How about Inland Waters of Guadalcanal Maritime Law?

Yes , in I see no difference if you went treasure hunting in a graveyard with a shovel .

 

[Bob Wright]

Yes , in I see no difference if you went treasure hunting in a graveyard with a shovel .

I don't see your analogy there. I see it pretty well the same as removing bodies from an auto wreck. Certainly any remains should be treated with respect, but salvage operations should be permitted if there is no other law governing. Years ago working at FedEx hub in Memphis, there was the possibility of uncovering human remains. Work was suspended if found and resumed only after respectful removal of the remains were finished.

Bob Wright

 

[bigbillyboy]

I don't see your analogy there. I see it pretty well the same as removing bodies from an auto wreck. Certainly any remains should be treated with respect, but salvage operations should be permitted if there is no other law governing. Years ago working at FedEx hub in Memphis, there was the possibility of uncovering human remains. Work was suspended if found and resumed only after respectful removal of the remains were finished.

Bob Wright

I think because the length of time involved . An auto accident has to be cleared immediately, where as a sunken ship unless in a harbor or such caused no one a problem for decades .

 

[eveled]

They salvaged most of the ships that were sunk that day. They even salvaged a lot of the Arizona.

At what point does it cease being salvage and body recovery and become looting and desecration?

 

[DeletedMember275]

That is exactly why any M151 jeep returned from Viet Nam or later, was cut into 4 pieces diagonally, before being scrapped. We were told it was because they didn't have emission controls.

I was led to believe that this was a result of Ralph Nader's lobbying with congress. Military jeeps will flip just by looking harshly at them, and he and his handlers didn't want them on the market supposedly for safety reasons. It may well have been that the competition against the automakers was the driving force; who knows at this late date?

I do know that my father believed that he could buy an intact, complete milsurp Jeep for some ridiculously low figure to his dying day, even after I took pictures of jeeps being demiled and sent them to him.

 

[eveled]

One fellow told me he was stationed on an island so small they walked everywhere. They had Jeeps that they pushed off a cliff before leaving.

He said not one if them had more than 20 miles on them!

I also heard they were worrying about surplus vehicles hurting the auto makers after the war.

It would be crazy to see how much resources ww2 consumed.

And we are still paying for it! The Arizona and other wrecks have the potential to release an unknown amount of oil still.

 

[epags]

I spent many of happy days wandering around Shemya Island (Google it) while on TDY. Old bunkers even sand blasted Coke bottles.
Interestingly enough old maps showed several areas off shore as 'hazardous". Story goes that munitions and 'other stuff' was dumped there after WWII. I know that 50 cal brass would wash up on shore. I even collected some.
I recently noted that those 'hazardous' off shore sites no longer show up on current maps or on Google map.
I guess someone figured that after 75+ years everything would become inert after being submerged so long????