WyoGunner
Single-Sixer
These rounds have always seemed like oddballs to me. Anyone have any interesting info on them? Personal tastes? It seems like there is quite a following in for the 10mm. How does it compare to .45acp?
Which round do you prefer? 38 super, 10mm, or 357 sig?
- Thread starter WyoGunner
- Start date
contender
Ruger Guru
The 38 Super enjoys a strong following in USPSA competition firearms as it can be loaded hot enough to run a "race gun" and at the same time enjoy a smaller diameter case which allows more rounds in a magazine.
The 357 Sig is used a lot by many LEO agencies,, but is a bit scarce in the general public as it's a bit harder to reload than straight walled cases. I see a few of them pop up on my range,, but they are usually owned by a LEO,, even if it's a privately owned firearm.
The 10mm seems to be a bit more popular,, but it is overshadowed by the 40 S&W which is only a shorter case, same diameter bullet. Ammo availability is the main issue with all 3 calibers listed,, but if I had to give a nod to the best SD round I'd go with the 10mm. Get a good 180 grn bullet,, and it is somewhat comparable to the 41 mag in a semi-auto handgun.
The 357 Sig is used a lot by many LEO agencies,, but is a bit scarce in the general public as it's a bit harder to reload than straight walled cases. I see a few of them pop up on my range,, but they are usually owned by a LEO,, even if it's a privately owned firearm.
The 10mm seems to be a bit more popular,, but it is overshadowed by the 40 S&W which is only a shorter case, same diameter bullet. Ammo availability is the main issue with all 3 calibers listed,, but if I had to give a nod to the best SD round I'd go with the 10mm. Get a good 180 grn bullet,, and it is somewhat comparable to the 41 mag in a semi-auto handgun.
flatgate
Hawkeye
.44 magnum is the minimum I'll carry....
Why waste time on a "sub calibre" plinker?
JMHO,
flatgate
Why waste time on a "sub calibre" plinker?
JMHO,
flatgate
WESHOOT2
Hunter
I found the 10mm to need at least an N-frame platform (since Ruger hasn't YET chambered the GP for it). In autoloaders, the cartridge, when loaded as I consider proper, overwhelms them. Except when using the 135g JHP.
The 38 Super requires at least a 1911 or large-frame Witness to accept their length, and as such, a well-driven 125g JHP can equal or exceed similar bullets from the 357 Magnum.
The 357 SIG doesn't need such length, so its platforms can be more suitable for smaller hands, yet it matches the 357 Magnum in the 124/125g race.
I start with "GOAL"; what is the task I wish the cartridge (and its platform; cannot ignore platform) to perform?
The 38 Super requires at least a 1911 or large-frame Witness to accept their length, and as such, a well-driven 125g JHP can equal or exceed similar bullets from the 357 Magnum.
The 357 SIG doesn't need such length, so its platforms can be more suitable for smaller hands, yet it matches the 357 Magnum in the 124/125g race.
I start with "GOAL"; what is the task I wish the cartridge (and its platform; cannot ignore platform) to perform?
DGW1949
Hawkeye
When it comes to semi-auto's, I'm a .45ACP guy.
I've played around with the .38 Super and always liked it, especialy when it's coupled with a full sized 1911. Never had much practical use for one though....and would have even less use for the other two that was mentioned.
That's all I know about that.
DGW
I've played around with the .38 Super and always liked it, especialy when it's coupled with a full sized 1911. Never had much practical use for one though....and would have even less use for the other two that was mentioned.
That's all I know about that.
DGW
Shoot44
Single-Sixer
+1. I expected the 10 mm to be a lot 'stiffer' than it is. Of course I shot it in a 'full size' semi-auto EAA, so perhaps the weight tamed it a bit. I didn't find it overly hard to control at all. ???revhigh":3fdeuill said:WESHOOT2":3fdeuill said:
Hmmm ... I never felt my G20 was overwhelmed by hot 10MM's, but then I DO love recoil ....
REV
I expected it to be a LOT worse than my 40, but it was not. I note that for the lighter bullet weights, (which I prefer; and FAST), the speed is not much higher than my 40. Now when you want to really see the difference, then go to the 180 grainers. So far, I have only shot 175 and 180 grain bullets in it, and although it is not a 'wimp' gun, it is not really terribly difficult to shoot, IMHO. I kinda like it. (But, as REV says, I TOO am a sort of 'recoil junkie')
I think it would be a terrific SD weapon! Too big (for me, at least) to carry, but on the nightstand......
Far as comparing to the 45ACP..... well, I know you all love them, but they are not even in the same league in terms of power. That ONE MILLIMETER of greater bullet diameter does NOT make up for the vast difference in muzzle velocity.
WESHOOT2
Hunter
I would suggest that my idea (tested, not guessing) of 'hot' 10mm differs (I mean, I still have a fair supply of 220s..... :shock: ).
I'm a .45ACP guy, with a minor in 9mm. Not that much interested in any of the three calibers you ask about, at least not enough to have ever bought one. If a .45 can't do it, I'll get my Smith 29, or better yet, a 12 gauge, a .223, or a .308.
If you want to give me one of the three calibers, I've always kinda wanted to own a Colt Government Model, pre-Series 70, in .38 Super--but not enough to pay the hideous price one will bring these days.
If I were going to be spending time in the wilderness where I feared both 2-legged predators and bears, and were limited to a semiauto pistol, I'd want a 10mm--in a S&W or a Colt or anything but a Glock. (I just don't like Glocks.)
If you want to give me one of the three calibers, I've always kinda wanted to own a Colt Government Model, pre-Series 70, in .38 Super--but not enough to pay the hideous price one will bring these days.
If I were going to be spending time in the wilderness where I feared both 2-legged predators and bears, and were limited to a semiauto pistol, I'd want a 10mm--in a S&W or a Colt or anything but a Glock. (I just don't like Glocks.)
Strictly JMHO . . .
I feel that all three of those rounds were developed in an attempt to duplicate or exceed, in a semi-auto pistol, the performance of some of the better revolver chamberings. Nothing wrong with that, except I'd rather shoot a revolver for most situations. I will likely never be in a position where I'll NEED fifteen or more rounds in a few seconds. Some folks might. In that case, I can see some utility in the hotter auto pistol rounds assuming the shooter can manage the increased recoil/blast under stressful conditions.
For essentially all of my shooting, I can get by with a .22 and a .45 Colt in revolvers. There are several other centerfire chamberings that would work in place of the .45 Colt, but since I can load ammo to whatever performance level I desire, I don't actually NEED any others.
Like I said . . . JMHO.
Yes, I have other guns in other chamberings.
I feel that all three of those rounds were developed in an attempt to duplicate or exceed, in a semi-auto pistol, the performance of some of the better revolver chamberings. Nothing wrong with that, except I'd rather shoot a revolver for most situations. I will likely never be in a position where I'll NEED fifteen or more rounds in a few seconds. Some folks might. In that case, I can see some utility in the hotter auto pistol rounds assuming the shooter can manage the increased recoil/blast under stressful conditions.
For essentially all of my shooting, I can get by with a .22 and a .45 Colt in revolvers. There are several other centerfire chamberings that would work in place of the .45 Colt, but since I can load ammo to whatever performance level I desire, I don't actually NEED any others.
Like I said . . . JMHO.
Yes, I have other guns in other chamberings.
Shoot44
Single-Sixer
As "Ale-8" said: "I feel that all three of those rounds were developed in an attempt to duplicate or exceed, in a semi-auto pistol, the performance of some of the better revolver chamberings."
I couldn't agree more!
Hey, "Weshoot", if it sounded like I was guessing, I wasn't. I shot a bunch of the hottest 10MM stuff I could buy. (It is kinda scarce, tho, so I didn't have much in the way of choices, of course). Haven't started to reload for it yet, but this stuff clocked out at about what the loading manuals say is max, so . . . ???
Did you time your loads? If so, I would like to know their muzzle velocity. It is pretty new to me, though, so I'm trying to get more info on the cartridge. Sounds like you have a lot more experience with it, and I would appreciate any you can offer. Thnx.
I couldn't agree more!
Hey, "Weshoot", if it sounded like I was guessing, I wasn't. I shot a bunch of the hottest 10MM stuff I could buy. (It is kinda scarce, tho, so I didn't have much in the way of choices, of course). Haven't started to reload for it yet, but this stuff clocked out at about what the loading manuals say is max, so . . . ???
Did you time your loads? If so, I would like to know their muzzle velocity. It is pretty new to me, though, so I'm trying to get more info on the cartridge. Sounds like you have a lot more experience with it, and I would appreciate any you can offer. Thnx.
WESHOOT2
Hunter
I far exceeded any manual's MAX using bullets weighing 135g, 155g, 180g, and 200g. I made up the 220g data myself. I used my custom M20 for load development.
I've done significant load development in 10mm, but (mostly) put it aside around 2001.
Doesn't anyone recall those photos a customer posted on I-don't-remember-which-forum of him testing my 180g load using gel-blocks placed longways end to end, with the impact knocking both completely off his bench?
And here's some excerpts from a customer's letter dated 11/01 giving me some feedback on his purchase: "....135g Nosler...1821fps....155g Gold Dot load I got 1569fps 5 shot average....180g XTP load I got an average of 1428fps....Your 200g +P+ load was awesome! I only fired six rounds but got 1378fps average....The fps spread was 21,17, 15, and 15 for the 135g, 155g, 180g, and 200g respectively...."
Don't try this at home, as some load development incurs a willingness to have one's launch platform(s) destroyed.
I've done significant load development in 10mm, but (mostly) put it aside around 2001.
Doesn't anyone recall those photos a customer posted on I-don't-remember-which-forum of him testing my 180g load using gel-blocks placed longways end to end, with the impact knocking both completely off his bench?
And here's some excerpts from a customer's letter dated 11/01 giving me some feedback on his purchase: "....135g Nosler...1821fps....155g Gold Dot load I got 1569fps 5 shot average....180g XTP load I got an average of 1428fps....Your 200g +P+ load was awesome! I only fired six rounds but got 1378fps average....The fps spread was 21,17, 15, and 15 for the 135g, 155g, 180g, and 200g respectively...."
Don't try this at home, as some load development incurs a willingness to have one's launch platform(s) destroyed.
Shoot44
Single-Sixer
OK, thnx for the info. Yeah, those MV's are well over the manual max's. I wonder if you went way over the manuals' recommended loadings, (and therefore max pressures) as well. I would guess that you'd have to to do that. I'm NOT ready to experiment with loads that go beyond published maximum pressures. It's just not worth the risk to me. (My gun OR my hands!)
IIRC, the Winchester "SilverTip" rounds I found were 175 gr and clocked at just under 1230 fps. So that is about 200 fps lower than your 180 gr loads. Significant, to be sure, but not worth blowing up a gun. . . to me at least.
Again, thnx for sharing your experience!
IIRC, the Winchester "SilverTip" rounds I found were 175 gr and clocked at just under 1230 fps. So that is about 200 fps lower than your 180 gr loads. Significant, to be sure, but not worth blowing up a gun. . . to me at least.
Again, thnx for sharing your experience!
WESHOOT2
Hunter
The 175g Silvertip is a superb 10mm choice, normally averaging around 1200fps, with good accuracy.
Yes, much of my ammo exceeds published maximums. The only gun I ever had 'blow up' was my personal 44 Redhawk. Ruger service was great.
Yes, much of my ammo exceeds published maximums. The only gun I ever had 'blow up' was my personal 44 Redhawk. Ruger service was great.
Cherokee
Single-Sixer
Back in 1989 I tested Hornady 170 JHP ammo in my 10MM and got 1360 fps with SD of 12. Ammo was very accurate. I load my own now and am more conservative that WESHOOT2's +P stuff.
I load and shoot a lot of 38 Super. I find it a pleasure to shoot and can get close to 357 Mag performance if pushed. But my most used cartridge is 45 ACP.
I load and shoot a lot of 38 Super. I find it a pleasure to shoot and can get close to 357 Mag performance if pushed. But my most used cartridge is 45 ACP.
