What's more important?

[GunnyGene]

The bullet or the weapon? I say the bullet. Reason is that the bullet is what gets the job done, and that the choice of weapon should be based on what is the best platform the bullet needs to accomplish it's task. Too often I hear people choose the weapon first, then try to figure out what bullet they should use. Seems backwards to me.

What say y'all?

 

[JPGLSG]

I'd say the bullet as well. As a kids we learned how to shoot 12ga shells out of a home made steel pipe. It's a wonder we are alive and able to laugh about it now days.

 

[pawncop]

I agree. The firearm is the launch platform but the bullet delivers the energy. Both are vital as one needs an accurate platform as a miss does not help.

 

[Cholo]

Playing the devil's advocate: Without a launch platform, a bullet is useless. Have you ever given a low life a Jesus moment while pointing a bullet between his eyes?

 

[Jim Puke]

Playing the devil's advocate: Without a launch platform, a bullet is useless. Have you ever given a low life a Jesus moment while pointing a bullet between his eyes?

BINGO!

Sometimes, guns will even work WITHOUT bullets.

Bullets will probably never work without guns.

Also, seldom is it the case, that only one bullet will work for the circumstance.

 

[mohavesam]

GUn.
Elementary, as one can use a gun as a weapon even without "bullets".
Getting clubbed over the head with a hand-held bullet doesn't cause me much worry.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I remember before I ever bought my first gun seeing a table or graph of common handgun and rifle bullet trajectories and thinking the 38 special was plenty of cartridge to do some target shooting compared with a 22 cal. which I was familiar with. ...and that was before I knew it was so accurate.

 

[Cholo]

Jimbo, I think you stumbled into the wrong thread :mrgreen:

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Jimbo, I think you stumbled into the wrong thread :mrgreen:

As much flak as I get around here I think I stumbled into the wrong hobby sometimes. :mrgreen:

 

[GunnyGene]

GUn.
Elementary, as one can use a gun as a weapon even without "bullets".
Getting clubbed over the head with a hand-held bullet doesn't cause me much worry.

That would depend on the size of the bullet. Think 30mm might hurt? :mrgreen:

But I digress. I meant; should a person decide on the ammo first or the gun first, when contemplating a new firearm purchase. For example, when I decided last year that I was going to buy a new handgun, the first thing I did was explore the available ammo designs in various calibers (.380, 9mm, 10mm, .44, .45) in considerable detail until I settled on ammo (9mm) that I felt was best given my life style, location, and other criteria. When I'd satisfied that set of requirements, then I started looking at the many different firearms in that caliber and comparing them on price, ease of use, reliability, and so on. Pretty tedious and lengthy process I know, but I've never been one to make a substantial investment in something without doing my homework.

 

[Bob Wright]

Which is more important, the trigger or the hammer?

The cartridge is just as important as any other part of the firearm. It is just sold separately.

Bob Wright

 

[contender]

I feel both are equal in importance.

 

[m657]

Gunny: begging the question " Reason is that the bullet is what gets the job done, ".....the FIRST step is to consider the mission, no?

Given the mission THEN the others fall into order. IMHO.

YMMV

 

[GunnyGene]

Gunny: begging the question " Reason is that the bullet is what gets the job done, ".....the FIRST step is to consider the mission, no?

Given the mission THEN the others fall into order. IMHO.

YMMV

Yes of course. I made the mistake of assuming that a person planning to buy a weapon would already have at least a general idea of what the mission is.

What brought this to my mind, was overhearing a conversation the other day between a young man with his fiance, and the salesman behind the counter. They didn't have any idea of what they wanted, other than a gun for her for SD. So the sales guy was doing his best to show them practically everything under the glass, from a little .22 NAA to a full size 1911. She was a small young lady, couldn't have weighed 90lbs soaking wet. I could tell they had no clue about choosing a suitable weapon for her. I don't like to butt into other folks business but I sure was tempted this time.

 

[toysoldier]

I'm reminded of an old joke about an argument between the various parts of the body as to which was more important. :wink:

I understand where the OP is coming from. The actual effect of a firearm is absolutely dependent upon energy transfer from the projectile to the target. The finest firearm isn't much use if the projectile chosen is inappropriate for the task. Of course, delivery of that projectile is dependent upon the function of the firearm, but that can be accomplished (to a varying degree of effectiveness) by a range of designs.

 

[PriseDeFer]

That's right, it's the egg.

 

[GunnyGene]

I'm reminded of an old joke about an argument between the various parts of the body as to which was more important. :wink:

I understand where the OP is coming from. The actual effect of a firearm is absolutely dependent upon energy transfer from the projectile to the target. The finest firearm isn't much use if the projectile chosen is inappropriate for the task. Of course, delivery of that projectile is dependent upon the function of the firearm, but that can be accomplished (to a varying degree of effectiveness) by a range of designs.

"Gun"powder was invented before guns, as a mixture that was supposedly intended to impart immortality. The worlds first firearm (the fire-lance) wasn't invented until the 13th century, 400 years after the invention of that magic black powder. Prior to the fire lance it was used in land mines, grenades and similar things. The fire lance originally just shot out a jet of flaming powder (sometimes mixed with honey, pine tar or other sticky stuff), until some bright guy thought it would be a good idea to stuff some stones and various bits of metal in it that would accompany the flame, sort of a directional land mine. That led to development of more durable fire lances that could withstand higher pressures and therefore have greater range. One thing led to another and here we are.

 

[powder smoke]

What's more Important, hmmm I believe the firearm has to be as reliable and the bullet.
They are imo equal in importance one without the other is virtually useless. ps

 

[gramps]

GUn.
Elementary, as one can use a gun as a weapon even without "bullets".
Getting clubbed over the head with a hand-held bullet doesn't cause me much worry.

Yep, what Mohavesam said. IMO I doubt any of us carry anything that could fire a 20mm+ cartridge? :mrgreen:
gramps

 

[sliclee]

IMO the caliber to do the job comes first.
Your not going to pick a .38 caliber handgun to hit a target at 125 yards. Using target instead.
Caliber first with choice of delivery, rifle or handgun,cannon,etc.
Bullet, missile or whatever.
Not that simple is it, weather, distance velocity and on and on.

 

[Mtneer]

Which is more important, the trigger or the hammer?

The cartridge is just as important as any other part of the firearm. It is just sold separately.

Bob Wright

Thank you Bob. I personally don't even think about what "bullets" I'm going to use until long after I've selected both the cartridge AND the firearm.
However, I agree - the cartridge is just as important as the firearm, and vise-versa. I select them together. For instance, I'm fond of the .44 Magnum cartridge and already had a few firearms chambered for the .44 Magnum cartridge. But all of the .44 Magnum revolvers I had at that time were relatively heavy and large. So when Smith came out with their new .44 Magnum revolver built on their smaller "L" frame, I bought the first one I saw. I love it! I run 250 gr., cast, Keith style "bullets" over medium charges of Unique through it. But if I ran those same 250 gr. Keith style "bullets" over big charges of 2400 through it, like I do my Super Blackhawk, that "L" frame Smith would probably kick harder than I care for. Besides, the jury is still out on how many full house .44 Magnum cartridges can be run through an "L" frame Smith before it needs work - probably not as many as can be run through one of Smith's larger "N" frame .44 Magnums would be my guess.
On the other hand, I'd like to have a very small revolver chambered for the .44 Special cartridge as an everyday carry gun. But the only company that I know of that builds a .44 Special revolver the size I'm looking for is Charter Arms. I don't like Charter Arms' guns, and I've read too many tales of woe about them. So, I'll go without a .44 Special revolver until someone builds one I like - the firearm is just as important as the cartridge and vise-versa. I select them together.

 

[GunnyGene]

This is fun. I think we've all been given something to think about and maybe pass along to someone we might know who is new to firearms.

 

[RoninPA]

Gunny: begging the question " Reason is that the bullet is what gets the job done, ".....the FIRST step is to consider the mission, no?

Given the mission THEN the others fall into order. IMHO.

YMMV

Yes of course. I made the mistake of assuming that a person planning to buy a weapon would already have at least a general idea of what the mission is.

What brought this to my mind, was overhearing a conversation the other day between a young man with his fiance, and the salesman behind the counter. They didn't have any idea of what they wanted, other than a gun for her for SD. So the sales guy was doing his best to show them practically everything under the glass, from a little .22 NAA to a full size 1911. She was a small young lady, couldn't have weighed 90lbs soaking wet. I could tell they had no clue about choosing a suitable weapon for her. I don't like to butt into other folks business but I sure was tempted this time.

Gunny, I would not have made any friends with that store. I would have "butted in" and suggested to the couple to go to a NRA (or other) basic handgun class to get the information and basics to start to be able to make a better informed decision before they started looking at guns.

I guess I see it a little differently than the big box stores. I would rather risk a sale than have someone get something that is not right for them and then they realize that I didn't care about them, I sold them something just to make a buck. That's just not how to treat a new shooter(s). I have had people ask me about guns for SD. Many are first timers (young students at PSU that are sent to me by other customers). I try to give them some insight into buying a gun for the first time and stress (a lot) that they should first take at least one firearms class before thinking about what to buy. I direct them to the several places that they can get the classes and tell them to come see me after that and we'll find the right gun for your needs (notice I said needs not wants). I also have a bunch of packets of materials that I give them to read (Safe use of Firearms, Kids and Guns, Commandments of Shooting Safety, Commandments of Concealed Carry, and a bunch more stuff I have found over the years). I tell them to read it all then stop back with their questions. I don't think I have lost a sale because of doing this (delayed the sale a bit, but I want my customers to come back when they need something.

Back to the question. I would go with the ammo first, once the person knows what their main use is going to be. Myself, I like to see new people (meaning no previous gun experience) start with a reliable .22 to learn with. I tell them, once proficient with that you can always sell it and go from there. Once they know what the use is going to be, then we can discuss the platform(s) for that ammo.

 

[Colonialgirl]

I'm reminded of an old joke about an argument between the various parts of the body as to which was more important. :wink:

.

HHHMMMMMM;

I remember that old joke and I remember WHICH part of the body won too !!!