What is going on with Ruger's Quality Control?

[WyoGunner]

We are in dark times when it comes to the quality and price of all firearms. With companies scrambling to meet demand and resorting to 24hr manufacturing, quality control has suffered. When the market equalizes and companies can return to normal manufacturing conditions, better products will be made. No one can say how long this will actually take. I think we will all look back on this era as a time when crappy guns were produced. Twenty years from now, people at guns shows will say, "You don't want that POS. Its from the early Obama era. See this right here Jimmy? They didn't even have time to crown the barrel."

 

[ChuckS1]

So is it any surprise that OM Blackhawks are so popular?

 

[HerbG]

'Quality Control? We phased them out years and years ago. Don't need 'em; let the consumer do the final QC.'

Didn't you know? It's the American way!

I think you hit the nail on the head! This seems to be the story at many gun manufacturers these days. They are interested in making a sale, and assume that most purchasers either won't notice any problem or will not bother to return the gun for repairs. I would guess that a relatively small percentage of "problem guns" are actually returned for repairs, and it is easier to fix those guns than to assure a quality produce goes out the door in the first place. The customer actually does become the final quality control! A sad state of affairs.

 

[revhigh]

Thank God I have all the guns I need and THEN some. I don't have to subject myself to the crap that companies are putting out today.

REV

 

[redeux]

sadly enough , due to these and other problems i won't burden you with , well , i have bought my last ruger pistol/revolver...
its sad , really it is ...
when flatgate shows me how to fix my NV's timing problems that will be my last ruger ...(i know , i know i've said that before)
everything else (except for my 50th any single-six) was delivered back to my dealer to be sold...
so my dealer now has nib unfired rugers that no one else has...
in contrast , my new H&K P2000 SK V3 that arrived yesterday was perfect in every respect ...
its wholesale was about $100.00 more than my ruger was...
i've had rugers since 1968-9 ?
i can't fix stupid , i won't even try...
is there any way we can bring bill back ?

 

[mustang99]

What Cabela's was this, Lehi? Do you know if the guns are still there?

 

[Cordite]

If the leader of a manufacturing organization is a bean counter then the thinking goes like this:

"Every manufacturer of consumer goods has warranty as a component of the total product cost. If the actual warranty cost for a given time period is less than the budgeted cost then the product is considered to be a winner. All we need to do is have enough sales to cover our fixed costs and corporate success is guaranteed. Quality is a concept addressed from a process standpoint rather than having each production piece pass a tough quality inspection."

If the leader of a manufacturing organization is a craftsman then the thinking goes like this:

"Every product that leaves our door must be of the highest quality possible. No defects are acceptable. People will recognize the quality that is built into the product and will pay for it. The company just needs to make enough money to cover its total costs."


Not sure where Ruger fits into this scenario but its somewhere in between with leanings toward beancounter thinking. Freedom Arms is a good example of a company with craftsman thinking.

 

[Redhawk4]

What Cabela's was this, Lehi? Do you know if the guns are still there?

It was Lehi, but I haven't been back since.

On Cordite's two scenarios, look where that thinking got the US auto industry and where Toyota are today by adopting the other approach. It illustrates which one works best in the long haul. Most companies seem to be "raped" so execs can receive their bonuses, rather than run in a manner that is best for the consumer, employees as a whole, or the longer term good of the company. By the time trouble hits, the execs have moved on to wreak havoc elsewhere and further feather their nests.

 

[Hokie73]

Most companies seem to be "raped" so execs can receive their bonuses, rather than run in a manner that is best for the consumer, employees as a whole, or the longer term good of the company. By the time trouble hits, the execs have moved on to wreak havoc elsewhere and further feather their nests.

You have captured the essence of the problem, but to those in charge it isn't a problem. A $5 million severance for resigning ! I wouldn't see a problem either I don't guess. Harvard and the rest of the business schools quit teaching ethics, and here we are. And Toyota has bought in to the American way now, too.
The state of American manufacturing is 99% of it is gone, and they are just looking for ways to move the rest of it to third world countries, with lower wages, no OSHA, no unions, no handicapped parking, et al. We have given away our standard of living.

 

[Redhawk4]

The state of American manufacturing is 99% of it is gone, and they are just looking for ways to move the rest of it to third world countries, with lower wages, no OSHA, no unions, no handicapped parking, et al. We have given away our standard of living.

The Cap and Trade bill (Cap and Tax to some) if passed will get rid of most of what remains of American manufacturing by pushing those jobs overseas aswell, to escape the energy penalties.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

As long as Ruger will fix any problems, I won't have a problem buying their guns. They love to pour over numbers so sooner or later some junior bean counter will realize that the current set up is not maximizing profit. Or, maybe it is, I really don't know. I haven't been in a burn down hurry need for a gun in a long time. After one comes back from Ruger, my impression is that the quality of those is better than anything they ever rolled off the assembly line anyway.
Remington is getting the same flack from knowledgeable gun buyers over the Express guns, but I wonder what percent of the total are those versus the "lowest cost or bust" bunch.

But doesn't it make you just the teensiest bit upset that this is the accepted standard for American manufacturing these days? Lay out $500 for an item, and it might work?

-- Sam

It would worry me a whole lot more if Ruger was the only manufacturer in the US that has issues of quality. Name one that doesn't have quality issues. Every gun manufacturer I know has some issues. Car manufactures do, I'd feel a whole lot worse to buy a $40,000 truck to find out it has a couple of quality control issues. I have way more confidence Ruger will fix them. I think people in general just like to pi$$ and moan. Getting to be the great American past time. Let's send more stuff over to China and Japan and see how long it takes us to forget how to do anything.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

As long as Ruger will fix any problems, I won't have a problem buying their guns. They love to pour over numbers so sooner or later some junior bean counter will realize that the current set up is not maximizing profit. Or, maybe it is, I really don't know. I haven't been in a burn down hurry need for a gun in a long time. After one comes back from Ruger, my impression is that the quality of those is better than anything they ever rolled off the assembly line anyway.
Remington is getting the same flack from knowledgeable gun buyers over the Express guns, but I wonder what percent of the total are those versus the "lowest cost or bust" bunch.

But doesn't it make you just the teensiest bit upset that this is the accepted standard for American manufacturing these days? Lay out $500 for an item, and it might work?

-- Sam

It would worry me a whole lot more if Ruger was the only manufacturer in the US that has issues of quality. Name one that doesn't have quality issues. Every gun manufacturer I know has some issues. Car manufactures do, I'd feel a whole lot worse to buy a $40,000 truck to find out it has a couple of quality control issues. I have way more confidence Ruger will fix them. I think people in general just like to pi$$ and moan. Getting to be the great American past time. Let's send more stuff over to China and Japan and see how long it takes us to forget how to do anything.

Not at all - you miss my point. All (or at least most, especially larger) manufactures do have issues. We need to get back to the root causes of this (corporate/executive greed), introduce some ethics and change the focus on quality to get competitive again. We do not need multi-million dollar "rock star" CEOs getting bonuses for shipping our jobs overseas.

Again, if you "save" an American company by eliminating the jobs and sending your profits to an off-shore tax haven (hello HP) how is this helping America?

-- Sam

 

[Greg F.]

I guess if you don't want to worry about quality control problems, you can spend $2000+ and buy a hand built gun from Freedom Arms, or any other custom builder.

The problem is that right now Ruger and everyone else are cranking out guns as fast as they can to meet demand. Most gunmakers have a backlog and are trying to catch-up with their orders as quickly as possible. Hopefully the rush will slow down in the coming months and the gun makers will start to get caught up with thir orders. As they do I would expect that their quality control will start to improve as well.

In the mean time, just buy quality used guns. There sure are some great deals out there right now.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I guess if you don't want to worry about quality control problems, you can spend $2000+ and buy a hand built gun from Freedom Arms, or any other custom builder.

The problem is that right now Ruger and everyone else are cranking out guns as fast as they can to meet demand. Most gunmakers have a backlog and are trying to catch-up with their orders as quickly as possible. Hopefully the rush will slow down in the coming months and the gun makers will start to get caught up with thir orders. As they do I would expect that their quality control will start to improve as well.

Nothing personal, but I don't believe the "we're too busy to do a good job" excuse. If they had processes in place it wouldn't be an issue. There's more to it than that, and it comes down to simply doing the right thing.

I also shouldn't have to pay a 4x premium to simply get a product that works as designed/intended/advertised.

-- Sam

 

[conder0289]

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/N-RugerTV-LeanMFG.html

 

[redeux]

LeanMFG/quote]
@#$%^&*(@#$%^&*
well , that explains a lot right there...

 

[JWhitmore44]

Again, if you "save" an American company by eliminating the jobs and sending your profits to an off-shore tax haven (hello HP) how is this helping America?

-- Sam

Amen brother !!

sorry, back to the topic.

 

[conder0289]

Sorry Guys,
That the Ruger video posted three times, I must you screwed up something when posting it.

But this proves, out of the Company's own mouth why quality is going down the toilet. I loved Ruger products and still do, only the earlier stuff.
Why would I spend my hard earned cash on a product and have to return it for repair, TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

And when did employee's of a gun company become "Associates"? What are we Wallyworld now! The last time I knew there were either pistolsmith's or crastsmen. I was a toolmaker for many years before this type of precision was sold off or farmed out to other areas with cheaper labor or overhead.

We had "specs" on the work performed in our shop and personal pride in our work, it was not that hard to hold tolerances on metal parts that needed a close fit. If a spec called for +/-.005, I would still make it +/-.001. Not difficult at all and this was done for piece work jobs too.

It maybe just me but I always overhaul any NEW revolver I have ever bought and owned, from stoning and polishing the insides to removing any and all tooling marks visible on the outside. Eye appeal means alot and pride in owning something that is beautiful and pleasing to the eye means even more.

But why should I have to pay say 500+ Dollars and do the finish work myself (Yes I do enjoy it) when it should have been done before I ever laid eyes on it.

My wife says I am stuck in the past, I love old things and the old ways of doing things. Granted, technology advances have improved our lives greatly but why should I buy something at a lower level of QUALITY, it costs even less to produce it now than it did and it really looks that way.

Spend a few extra minutes and make it right and good the first time and it will stand the test of time.

 

[redeux]

Sorry Guys,
That the Ruger video posted three times, I must you screwed up something when posting it.

But this proves, out of the Company's own mouth why quality is going down the toilet. I loved Ruger products and still do, only the earlier stuff.
Why would I spend my hard earned cash on a product and have to return it for repair, TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

And when did employee's of a gun company become "Associates"? What are we Wallyworld now! The last time I knew there were either pistolsmith's or crastsmen. I was a toolmaker for many years before this type of precision was sold off or farmed out to other areas with cheaper labor or overhead.

We had "specs" on the work performed in our shop and personal pride in our work, it was not that hard to hold tolerances on metal parts that needed a close fit. If a spec called for +/-.005, I would still make it +/-.001. Not difficult at all and this was done for piece work jobs too.

It maybe just me but I always overhaul any NEW revolver I have ever bought and owned, from stoning and polishing the insides to removing any and all tooling marks visible on the outside. Eye appeal means alot and pride in owning something that is beautiful and pleasing to the eye means even more.

But why should I have to pay say 500+ Dollars and do the finish work myself (Yes I do enjoy it) when it should have been done before I ever laid eyes on it.

My wife says I am stuck in the past, I love old things and the old ways of doing things. Granted, technology advances have improved our lives greatly but why should I buy something at a lower level of QUALITY, it costs even less to produce it now than it did and it really looks that way.

Spend a few extra minutes and make it right and good the first time and it will stand the test of time.

thank you , at least i know i'm not alone ...

 

[JimMarch1]

Guys...it seems very likely to me that the incredible production rush of this "gun crazy" year has hurt QC in *every* company that makes guns. Not just Ruger.

The one piece of good news so far is that I'm not hearing of problems with their castings, at least not yet. All of the problems I'm hearing about can be tracked to either machinework issues or finish problems (the rust and "weird goop" reports).

Well those are usually easy to spot unless you're buying sight-unseen.

When buying a Ruger, a pre-inspection checkout now has to involve pulling the grip panels, now that we're hearing of rust/finish reports.