What hot handload do you put through your New Vaquero .45LC?

[Doug.38PR]

Above said question. Most books don't put 200-250 gr lead bullets beyond 950 ft per second. But that's probably due to keep leading down.

I realize this gun is not, nor was it mean't to be, a .44 Magnum, but it's still a pretty sturdy gun compared to the SAA

 

[powder smoke]

Have two haven't got around to do anything with them. Both early production.
I have ruger only loads for my Vaqueros tho they get a steady diet of them at times. ps

 

[contender]

Just remember, the New Vaquero has a different frame from the Vaquero.

 

[Rclark]

You can NOT shoot ROLs (Tier 3) thru the New Vaquero, but you can load it up to around 23K (Tier 2 .45 Colt Loads).

You can find such loads here in table II : Brian Pearce .45 Colt Loads

I like 13.0g HS-6 under 255g SWC for my 'hot' load. Shoot in both my medium and large frame .45s. This is my 'woods' load. For general shooting, I back off to 7.0g of Green Dot under 250g RNFP.

 

[Bucks Owin]

I like 13.0g HS-6 under 255g SWC for my 'hot' load. Shoot in both my medium and large frame .45s. This is my 'woods' load. For general shooting, I back off to 7.0g of Green Dot under 250g RNFP.

Dittos here, both are fine loads... 8)

I will abstain from sharing the exact amounts of W-296 I have burned in my NMBH behind cast bullets in the 275 to 340 gr range in the interest of public safety...:shock: :mrgreen:

Suffice to say, my .45LC gives up nothing to the .44 mag... :wink:

 

[WIL TERRY]

THAT NV 45 pistol is NOT---NOT!--- one whit stronger than a COLT SAA in the same caliber; NONE NADA ZIP ZILCHO stronger !!
AND so it goes...

 

[Doug.38PR]

You can NOT shoot ROLs (Tier 3) thru the New Vaquero, but you can load it up to around 23K (Tier 2 .45 Colt Loads).

You can find such loads here in table II : Brian Pearce .45 Colt Loads

I like 13.0g HS-6 under 255g SWC for my 'hot' load. Shoot in both my medium and large frame .45s. This is my 'woods' load. For general shooting, I back off to 7.0g of Green Dot under 250g RNFP.

I don't find any table II in that link. Only table I for 285 gr bullet and .388 rifle round in another chart

 

[stevemb]

By now ya'll know I let the spirit move me, when sitting at the loading bench. But outright, asking for "hot handloads" is kinda an iffy thing. I've no .45 bores here, so no dogs in the hunt. Please play safe.

 

[DGW1949]

Above said question. Most books don't put 200-250 gr lead bullets beyond 950 ft per second. But that's probably due to keep leading down.

I realize this gun is not, nor was it mean't to be, a .44 Magnum, but it's still a pretty sturdy gun compared to the SAA

No, it aint "to keep leading down". It just so happens that 950 FPS is all the velocity you're gonna get out of an in-spec 250-255 45LC load using any "normal for cartridge" powder....and if the truth be told, unless you have a rather tightly-fitted 6-gun with optimumly-sized chambers, throats, bore, and a long barrel you aint even going to get that much.

Somebody mentioned "Tier 2 loads".....what is that?....I ask because there aint no such thing in none of my manuals. When I think about that, there must be a reason, eh?
On the other hand perhaps those Tier 2 loads exist on the internet because some folks like seeing how far they can stress their equipment for no good reason, or perhaps they like living on the edge, or perhaps they are simply dazzeled by numbers.....I dunno.....

.......But what I do know is that I agree with Will Terry in that a RNV aint actualy no stronger than a Colt SAA....it just happens to be a bit larger in a couple of areas...which BTW, is common across many industries for a "casting of equal strength".

What I'm getting at with all of that is this;
In all due respect to you (and Mr Pearce), me thinks that you'll get a more harmonious outcome with a "colt sized" 6-gun if you just let it be what it is, and save the hotrodding for the big-framed guns.

DGW

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

What does Ruger tell folks to shoot in that gun?

They've got the knowledge of what went into building the gun that nobody on the outside does. And they can make line changes, as they have in the past with other guns, which we can't see on the gun coming out of the box. For example, IF (BIG word) a Ruger NV from the early runs is actually capable of handling "overloads" at 150% of SAAMI spec--as a steady diet, not just one or two proof loads--we're talking roughly 21kpsi. So there's a big safety margin... makes sense to me from both a manufacturing and a product liability standpoint.

BUT, I look in my manual and what do they tell me again? Stick to SAAMI spec loads. "Bah, I know the gun's stronger than that," I tell myself. And I choose to shoot those "overloads" somebody who DOESN'T make the gun tells me are ok.

What I don't know is that just before MY gun was built, Ruger made a line change to the steel in the cylinder, and it now has a safety margin of only 125%. It's still perfectly safe with factory/SAAMI spec loads, exactly as they tell me it is in the manual. But how long will it take those hotter ones before damage of one kind or another occurs? Do Mr. Pearce or any other writers know exactly what it was and when they made that change, so they can advise us "Do not use these loads in guns with serial numbers higher than 123-xxxx" so we don't damage our guns or endanger ourselves? Maybe, but if so, I certainly missed the article!

I tried to "do the research" as it was when deciding what .4x revolver I wanted to buy some years back (before ANY Vaquero model was out.) Everything pointed me toward the .44 Mag as filling MY needs, as well as being purpose built for the higher pressure loads so many try to emulate with their .45 Colts. So far, that's proven a wise choice, meaning I don't have a dog in the fight, either. What others do is their business, but IF I figured at some time in the future I "need" a hot-rodded .45 instead of an "everyday" .44 Mag, the .454 Casull would tempt me far more than trying to outguess the guys who made the gun...

Stay safe guys.

Rick C

 

[Bucks Owin]

From what I could find, the pressure "tiers" go like this:

Tier 1: (SAAMI level) 14K

Tier 2: 23K

Tier 3: 30K

BTW, I have 1961 Speer data saying they safely achieved achieved 1,000 fps with a 250 gr in a 4.75" Colt SAA...

(And so it goes!)

 

[B.Roberts]

So if I can't load my .45 colt cylinder up to 23,000psi, does that mean I need to load my .45acp cylinder down to 14,000?

 

[Doug.38PR]

Well, 1) it's recommended to me that for Uberti Replicas, keep loadings, factory or otherwise, on the low end where as Ruger at least okays use of +P ammo in their .45 Long Colt guns. So there would seem to be some kind of difference between Ruger and SAAish guns 2) This post isn't about hot rodding to death a gun, it's utilizing it to the best

 

[Rick Courtright]

where as Ruger at least okays use of +P ammo in their .45 Long Colt guns.

Hi,

Where's the spec for .45 Colt +P ammo? I don't find it in my SAAMI literature. And in the New Vaquero manual I just downloaded from Ruger a few minutes ago, it says the "proper" ammo for the .45 Colt is .45 Colt only. Then they go on to add this:

AMMUNITION (CARTRIDGES) NOTICE
WE SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIM RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DAMAGE
OR INJURY WHATSOEVER OCCURRING IN CONNECTION WITH, OR
AS THE RESULT OF, THE USE IN RUGER REVOLVERS OF FAULTY, OR
NONSTANDARD, OR “REMANUFACTURED” OR HANDLOADED
(RELOADED) AMMUNITION, OR OF CARTRIDGES OTHER THAN
THOSE FOR WHICH THE FIREARM WAS ORIGINALLY CHAMBERED.

Just curious where this "Ruger at least okays use of +P ammo in their .45 Long Colt guns" info comes from... :?:

Rick C

 

[WIL TERRY]

There is NO SAAMI specification for 45COLT+P ammunition...AND take it to the bank, there never EVER will be, for the very reasons dilineated by the first question; I WANT THE HOT LOADS CAUSE I KNOW ALL MODERN GUNS ARE LOADED TO WIMPASS LEVELS DICTATED BY LAWYERS ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC.
IF gun powners will not even read the data available to them from PROVEN sources and ask total strangers on the internet to tell 'em how to stuff 'em to HOT LEVEL LOADS why in the world would SAAMI ever sanction such sillyness ?
And so it goes...

 

[Rclark]

Boy, you guys sure like to argue! There is nothing wrong with Tier 2 loads in the NV or the .45 Colt Flattop. Brian Pearce set it at 20K and after the .45 ACP came out for NVs and flattops it was upped to 23K. I personally don't see a problem here. Of course you do have to be able to read, make judgement calls and such with your guns, and your reloads. I know what works well in mine. The sky is not falling. :)

In the article (Handloader 246) I listed above the Tier 2 loads are listed on page 14. Tier 3 (ROLs) listed on page 15. There are three tables listed there for the 45-270-SAA bullet, but one can use 250 up to that bullet weight for these loads. I use the 255g SWC for example. There have been subsequent articles in Handloader magazine supporting what we .45 Colt fans call Tier 1,2,3 loads of the .45 Colt. You just have to be aware (which some of us are) where you can use them, and where you can't .... Quite simple actually.

THAT NV 45 pistol is NOT---NOT!--- one whit stronger than a COLT SAA in the same caliber; NONE NADA ZIP ZILCHO stronger !!

I beg to differ. And so it goes.... Even that said, the Colt SAA of today is MUCH stronger than the first generation SAAs. That is part of the reason we are stuck with SAMMI at 14K due to these old guns still in circulation. Again know your guns, otherwise stick to SAMMI loads and be happy.

 

[Bucks Owin]

^^^THIS!^^^

10X amigo... 8)

 

[dougader]

Speer 14 shows their 260 grain jhp with 13.0 grains Blue Dot. This is in the Colt/Colt Clones data that's supposed to be around 14k psi.

I use this load with the Speer 250 grain Gold Dot HP, and some RCBS 270AA hps that weigh about 247 grains. I load down to 12.5 grains BD with the Beartooth 265 WFNGC bullet.

Most often, though, I load a 250-255 RNFP with 7.0 grains of W231.

All of these loads use standard large pistol primers.

 

[Imissedagain]

Speer #10 has 45lc at 15900 and ROL at 25000.

 

[protoolman]

Obviously the .45 acp pressure is safe to load up to in the .45 Colt cylinder. Just don't get carried away. Ruger ain't going to tell you that you can run .357 Redhawks over SAMMI pressure either but its a fair bet its ok. Point is if you have a new vaquero don't get your Blackhawk only loads mixed up.

 

[opos]

There is NO SAAMI specification for 45COLT+P ammunition...AND take it to the bank, there never EVER will be, for the very reasons dilineated by the first question; I WANT THE HOT LOADS CAUSE I KNOW ALL MODERN GUNS ARE LOADED TO WIMPASS LEVELS DICTATED BY LAWYERS ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC.
IF gun powners will not even read the data available to them from PROVEN sources and ask total strangers on the internet to tell 'em how to stuff 'em to HOT LEVEL LOADS why in the world would SAAMI ever sanction such sillyness ?
And so it goes...

Bingo...for a long time I have heard about this +P and that+P that simply don't exist..used to see some of the "hot shot" ammo that was listed for a .380 as +P...got in lots of discussions and won a few nickles sending the opponent to the SAAMI spec to find a +P .380 spec...the ammo manufacturer simply "made up" a +P to sound good...The internet is a wonderful storybook land full of whimsy and fantasy.

I shoot SAA clones and enjoy them for what they are....cowboy action plinkers...I also shoot several "original" Vaqueros and have no concerns about the loading as long as it's in some book somewhere...I have no "new Vaqueros but I do have one Lipsey 44 special "flattop" Blackhawk on the smaller frame...Ruger made it a 44 special and not magnum for a reason...it's not made for those pressures.

 

[andyo5]

My understanding is that the New Vaquero is more lightly built than the original and is similar to a SAA in strength. I would load it as if it were a SAA.
250g lead bullets over 8.5g of Unique works like a charm for me.