what am i missing?

[Joe S.]

i sat down and loaded the only 50 pieces of brass i have for 44 special last night in anticipation of the arrival of my 4 5/8" Bisley Flat top...

i loaded 240 grain LSWC with 2400, 231, and trail boss.

here are the charges i used.
for the 2400 i couldnt find any data in the books i have (i really need a Lyman) for the 240 grainers, but the 250 grain kieth style bullets called for 13 grains max. i loaded 11.5 and 12 grains of 2400.

for 231, i loaded (if memory serves me correctly) 5.0 and 5.5 grains.

for trail boss i loaded 4.5 and 5.0 grains.

what are yall running?

 

[Cholo]

I don't own a Ruger .44 Special, but in my Smith 696 and Colt New Frontier I just loaded 250 of Penn's 205 gr. TC's over 7 grs. of Unique. When I get my SWC 240-250's, I'll stick with 6.5 grs. of Unique. Smiths and Colts ain't Rugers ya know :wink:

 

[Lee Martin]

You're in good shape. With the 250 grain Keith you can run 15.0 of 2400 safely but that's close to tops. Elmer's 17.5 of 2400 was with the old, and slower, 2400. 7.5 of Unique is the Skeeter load and it's outstanding. I've never shot Trail Boss but that sounds about right.

My favorite 44 Special load is 6.0 of Green Dot with the same bullet.

 

[Rclark]

Out of my .44Spec Flattop 5 1/2" barrel, I've loaded the following with given powders above.

15.0g 2400, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 1104fps, 17 SD, 54 ES, 14 shots
15.5g 2400, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 1138fps, 16 SD, 57 ES, 14 shots
16.0g 2400, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 1173fps, 14 SD, 40 ES, 14 shots
16.5g 2400, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 1201fps, 13 SD, 41 ES, 13 shots
17.0g 2400, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 1246fps, 11 SD, 42 ES, 13 shots (Keith Load)

7.5g Unique, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 1033fps, 10 SD, 29 ES, 12 shots (Skeeter Load)

5.2g Trail Boss, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 756fps, 12 SD, 57 ES, 30 shots
5.5g Trail Boss, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 780fps, 12 SD, 41 ES, 15 shots
6.0g Trail Boss, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 827fps, 16 SD, 53 ES, 15 shots
6.5g Trail Boss, 240g SWC, CCI-300, 874fps, 12 SD, 45 ES, 15 shots

All were accurate in my guns. Note several of the loads above are above SAAMI.

You'll be fine. 2400 is usually used for hotter loads, so 13 grains may be a bit sooty.

 

[Joe S.]

Thanks yall. I'll work my way up. I really need a Lyman manual.

 

[Rclark]

I'll work my way up. I really need a Lyman manual.

Only way to go ... and yes you do :) . Always fun to work up your 'own' loads!

 

[Joe S.]

My brass came in today so i have a few more cases to play with. Added some titegroup to the mix.

That oughta get me started. Hope to pick up the Bisleys tomorrow. :D

 

[Rclark]

That ought to do it :) . FWIW, 5.0g Titegroup gave me 854fps. 5.5g Titegroup gave me 917fps. Both gave me a low ES of 23 and SDs of 7 and 6.... 15 shots each.... Accurate. Hate repeating myself, but not many loads in the .44Spec did I find that were not accurate :) .

 

[Joe S.]

Cool. Thanks.

Have you tried a 310 grain lead flat point in your special? I have about 700 of those i bought for my magnum.

 

[Rclark]

No to 310g bullets. The only thing I've ran through my Specials is 240g SWCs with the exception of my little CA Bulldog. I did run some 200s in that for awhile, before going back to the 240g SWCs.

I see you loaded some W231. 6.0g under 240g SWC was 894fps. 7.0g was 996fps in my tests.

 

[Joe S.]

Thanks. Looks like im being conservative in my loads. Lol

 

[Joe S.]

And i may have missed it. Do you deer hunt with any of those loads?

 

[Rclark]

I don't hunt anymore, nor did I ever with a handgun. Mine are used for range fun and defensive carry only.

It is perfectly okay to be conservative (in more ways than just loads ;) ) ... I just read a lot of articles/books by Taffin, Brian Pearce, Skeeter, Ross Seyfried, Keith, and others to get a feel for the .44Spec... I want to stay in the 900-1100fps range with my loads. I also know the Ruger .44Spec flattop can easily handle the loads as well from all the information provided. Loads at this fps are comfortable to shoot all day, accurate, and still pack a good punch. My everyday .45 Colt and .44Mag loads are in the same fps range as well. Just good mid range loads in my way of thinking :) .

Here is a treasure trove of .44Spec articles if you aren't aware of this list : Treasure Trove

 

[Lee Martin]

Joe...I like how you've partitioned your rounds. Good luck and let us know how they perform.

 

[Joe S.]

Thanks for the info and compliments yall. :)

 

[Nowata]

Rclark has got your back.

 

[Joe S.]

There are so many knowledgable folks on this forum. Great place.

 

[sunday bill]

Joe S., I own 5 S&W 44 Specials and 1 Ruger 5 1/2" new-production Flattop.

A 240 grain cast SWC and stout charges of various powders provide excellent downrange accuracy and enable me to hunt with all but the two pre-WWII S&Ws (I refuse to punish'em).

The ABSOLUTE most accurate target load for 5 of my 44 Specials is 4.5 grains of Trail Boss with the 240 grain cast bullet. If I drop to 4 grains or increase to 5 grains, accuracy suffers in all 5 guns.

My old Triple Lock from 1914 thrives on 6 grains of Unique and the 240 grain SWC.

 

[Joe S.]

Nice. Thanks

 

[Joe S.]

i was just looking at IMR's site and the listed pressures for 357 are like 30-40k cup...

44 special is like 11k cup... so is 44 special THAT much underpowered for the blackhawk? i will be the first to admit i do NOT totally understand pressures, etc... but that seems like a big variance.

thanks
joe

 

[Joe S.]

oh and i forgot... anyone ever use winchester 296/ h110? i forgot i had a pound of 296...

 

[M'BOGO]

i was just looking at IMR's site and the listed pressures for 357 are like 30-40k cup...

44 special is like 11k cup... so is 44 special THAT much underpowered for the blackhawk? i will be the first to admit i do NOT totally understand pressures, etc... but that seems like a big variance.

thanks
joe

Now you're starting to see where the 7.5g Unique/Universal come in.. Granted the cylinder walls in the .357 are a good deal thicker, but the same model is chambered in .45 ACP, which with thinner cylinder wall is OKeyed with +P at 23,000 psi by Ruger. The 11k CUP/14k psi is the held standard, which goes back to 1909, when the triple locks were introduced with non heat treated cylinders.

I'll try to look up the 296 and also the 310 gr slug info, that rings a bell. But IIRC the 296 is too slow to start working it's magic.

 

[5of7]

I have a Ruger mid frame flat top in .44 Sp. and have loaded 15 & 16 grains of 2400 behind the 225 SWC bullet for velocities of 954 and 1026 respectively.

Using Unique, I have used 7 to 9.5 grs behind the same bullet for velocities of from 785 for the 7 gr. load to 1094 from the 9.5 grain load.

These loads were fired in a 5-1/2" Flat Top over a Pact model one Chronograph.

None of these loads are anything to worry about in this rugged little gun. 8)

EDIT: Also in looking over my data, I noticed that Universal is also good in the .44 Sp. and this same bullet. Just use 1 grain less than Unique for the same velocities (approx). Oh, and I used WLP primers and Remington brass.

 

[Rclark]

5&7 I am not sure about your chronograph readings. They seem a bit slow for the lighter bullet 225 SWC mind you.

Just in comparison for a slightly heavier bullet:

6.0g Unique behind 240g SWC is 874fps, and 7.5g I get 1033f[s .

And for 2400
15g 2400 behind 240g SWC is 1104fps, 16g 1173fps, and 17g 1246fps

These were verified back to back with 2 chronographs (mine and a fellow shooter) and fired from my 5 1/2" .44Spec Flattop. Note were are at 5200 ASL, so loads will run a bit faster up here, but not a lot.

Oh and for Universal vs Unique 7.5g got velocities of 1033fps and 1037fps respectively.... Ie. Identical results. For .357 6.0g under 158g SWC 1082 vs 1096. For .45 Colt 8.5g under 255 SWC 977 vs 1013 .

It has been my experience that lighter bullets tend to increase in velocity given the same powder charge. For example my Red Dot load for .357 of 5.0g under 125g have me 1090, while same under 158g gave me 1019fps.

 

[Joe S.]

Def a lot to consider. Gonna turn up the heat a lil.

Ordering a Lyman manual today if i have time. The cast bullet one.

 

[Tommy Kelly]

Joe go ahead and order your bfr. And if I wewe starting over with them I would go the same way and get the 475 first then the 4570

 

[5of7]

5&7 I am not sure about your chronograph readings. They seem a bit slow for the lighter bullet 225 SWC mind you.

Just in comparison for a slightly heavier bullet:

6.0g Unique behind 240g SWC is 874fps, and 7.5g I get 1033f[s .

And for 2400
15g 2400 behind 240g SWC is 1104fps, 16g 1173fps, and 17g 1246fps

These were verified back to back with 2 chronographs (mine and a fellow shooter) and fired from my 5 1/2" .44Spec Flattop. Note were are at 5200 ASL, so loads will run a bit faster up here, but not a lot.

Oh and for Universal vs Unique 7.5g got velocities of 1033fps and 1037fps respectively.... Ie. Identical results. For .357 6.0g under 158g SWC 1082 vs 1096. For .45 Colt 8.5g under 255 SWC 977 vs 1013 .

It has been my experience that lighter bullets tend to increase in velocity given the same powder charge. For example my Red Dot load for .357 of 5.0g under 125g have me 1090, while same under 158g gave me 1019fps.

It is not at all unusual for two different revolvers to chronograph the same load differently. I have seen it time and time again.

The same thing holds true for two propellants of similar burning rates fired is different revolvers.

I have chronograph-ed nearly everything that I shoot for about 20 years and have come to the conclusion that reloading data is just a guide as to what one MIGHT expect, rather than a hard prediction of the actual results.

I have two 5-1/2" Redhawks in .44 Mg., one blue and one SS and they are almost always ~100 fps apart with the exact same ammunition. The blue one is the slower one, but I don't think the color has anything to do with it. 8)

EDIT:
I rechecked my data and I see that the 5-1/2" flat top gets only marginally higher velocities than my S&W 696 and the Rossi 720, both with 3" barrels.

I just think that my particular FT is a little slow on the velocity side, but since I hand load all my ammo, it matters not.

 

[Rclark]

I understand, but I thought I'd give you a heads up if you were not aware.... It just seems quite far apart .. And more velocity means more pressure.... and if the chronograph says bullet running ~800fps but it is actually moving at ~1000fps means quite a bit of pressure difference when developing loads if thinking if going hotter....say toward the Keith load (17g of 2400) which is said to run at around 1200fps (I got 1246fps out of 5 1/2" barrel). That was my only concern and why I brought it up :) .

 

[Joe S.]

Joe go ahead and order your bfr. And if I wewe starting over with them I would go the same way and get the 475 first then the 4570

you are my encouragement... one day! ha!

 

[tek4260]

Joe, grab a can of HS-6 and don't look back if you are going to be shooting 240's. It is great for your 44's and 45's as a mid range powder. I use it in my Uberti and that case colored flattop 45 and get a taste over 1000fps with a 280-ish gr boolit.