Velocity PC carbine

[98PK]

Yep, I always wanted a Model 92 in .357, but this handy little Ruger in 9mm saves a lot of money over .38, .357 or 10mm (which might shoot .40 too.)....and it's self-loading.
I went out Saturday afternoon and engaged multiple targets out to 50 yds as fast as I could do. It was interesting to see the difference in the G17 results verses the carbine. That was
a fun outing- gonna do that again REAL soon!

I did try some kind of frangible 85 grain "DRT" cartridges at one hundred yards. They may have gone real high, I guess, but only out of eight was on paper even. It didn't seem to like those fragile little bullets. They were on the "get rid of" rack, so they're probably not-so-good anyway.

I can see where loading cartridges that get the most out if the carbine might not work so well in the pistol and vice versa. Probably some kind of compromise load would be what you'd strive for, huh?

 

[mikein]

Yep, I always wanted a Model 92 in .357, but this handy little Ruger in 9mm saves a lot of money over .38, .357 or 10mm (which might shoot .40 too.)....and it's self-loading.
I went out Saturday afternoon and engaged multiple targets out to 50 yds as fast as I could do. It was interesting to see the difference in the G17 results verses the carbine. That was
a fun outing- gonna do that again REAL soon!

I did try some kind of frangible 85 grain "DRT" cartridges at one hundred yards. They may have gone real high, I guess, but only out of eight was on paper even. It didn't seem to like those fragile little bullets. They were on the "get rid of" rack, so they're probably not-so-good anyway.

I can see where loading cartridges that get the most out if the carbine might not work so well in the pistol and vice versa. Probably some kind of compromise load would be what you'd strive for, huh?

Yep, and for us reloaders, it's great way to do some testing to see if we can optimize the cartridge performance from this new rifle!

 

[teuthis]

If one is seeking a more potent round in a carbine than the 9x19 why not just go to a 30-30 lever action or a 44 mag lever action? I have the PC9 and consider the 9mm round ideal for a carbine. I also have the Henry Big Boy Steel lever action in 44 mag. It is more powerful if I need more power.

 

[grobin]

Well he'll if you need more power just go to the 45/70. There are even 45/70 companion pistols!

Unless the manufacturer is willing to do the work to build a magazine for rimmed cartridges for semi autos the 357 41 30-30 ... et al are irrelevant! That's comparing apple's to bananas!

 

[FergusonTO35]

LGS has a carbine on the rack for $439.95. And of course, I have to go buy a new washer and dryer instead.

 

[mikein]

Good Lord, FergusonTO35, you really need to change your priorities! New PC9 vs. New Washer/Dryer? No contest!!

 

[Donnieweps]

Well there's a more potent cartridge than the 357-the 10mm! It doesn't have the problems redesigning a magazine to feed rimmed. It makes a lot more sense.

I'd disagree, the 10mm is close but I'll give the edge to the .357. I had a 6" barreled Ruger GP100 that ran 1592fps, 890 ft lbs with Buffalo Bore 158gr JHPs. I've never seen 10mm data that hot. Don

 

[grobin]

Well that's not the Hornady or Lyman manuals say. The 10mm is close to the 41 mag!

 

[mpalm]

I consider the 9mm to be a versatile self defense cartridge. In a pistol it retains enough energy to meet the military's "kill" requirements at 400 meters. In the carbine with perhaps 200 additional fps it should be an excellent weapon at 100-200 meters. That is well within rifle ranges. 9mm is obtainable everywhere and makes an outstanding survival and self defense round. I have the PC9 and consider it to be an excellent combination of power and controllability. What else does one need?

I agree it covers most of the bases . I have been buying a lot of 9mm lately at low prices

 

[grobin]

Well there's a more potent cartridge than the 357-the 10mm! It doesn't have the problems redesigning a magazine to feed rimmed. It makes a lot more sense.

I'd disagree, the 10mm is close but I'll give the edge to the .357. I had a 6" barreled Ruger GP100 that ran 1592fps, 890 ft lbs with Buffalo Bore 158gr JHPs. I've never seen 10mm data that hot. Don

Buffalo Bore Ammunition Outdoorsman 10mm Auto 220 Grain 1200fps, 700 ftlbs.
180 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point 1350fps 728ftlbs.
But check out the reloading manuals for hoter loads that will not work in the Glock.

 

[m657]

re: " Neither is for the faint of heart."

the very point IMHO of the 9mm carbine is for those of us in the 'faint of heart' category, to have something pleasant to occupy our attentions

 

[lostatsea]

I get the attraction to the PC; it uses the same ammo as your side arm, however, in terms of performance increase of a carbine shooting a pistol rd, the 357mag has it all over the 9mm. I've got 2 357mag leverguns and have asked Ruger to consider a 357mag carbine. That would be a considerable increase over one's sidearm.

You should be working in the R@D department at Ruger.

Ruger at one time built a 44 mag carbine so I know they know how to build a 357 mag carbine. Of course the 9mm makes more sense because it's cheap to shoot but as you say it isn't a real show stopper in the velocity dept.

I've done some work with 357 mag loads and it isn't hard to get 1700 fps in an 18" barrel using 158's and alliant 2400. The thing that peaks my interest here is the performance increase of the 357 and a carbine length barrel.

I won't buy a 9mm PCC. I will however buy a 357 mag carbine if Ruger ever builds it.

 

[grobin]

It depends on how Ruger sees the PC carbine constrained and evolving. If they are to be limited by Glock magazines then 380 45 357 SIG 10mm/40 would all be doable. The velocity gains and flexibility improvements over short barrels would be nominal as the cartridges are all loaded for short barrel guns and have limited room for improvement unless blended powders are used. The problem with the better cartridges: 357, 41, 44, 454, 460, 480, 500. Is that, while they can easily be loaded for significant gains in carbine length barrels, they are rimmed. The usual limitation of rimmed cartridges to tubular or rotary magazines limits them severely. Recent shotguns by Mossberg and Remington with box magazines have shown that this is not necessary and is obviously undesirable!

Does Ruger want to Pioneer a new category of carbine?!

 

[WAYNO]

Wow. Oh yes, there are many long guns that perform substantially better than the 9mm carbine. I've owned .357 carbines, .44 carbines, and many others. And the 9mm doesn't hold a candle to any of them in terms of terminal performance.

But it's not always how much power is applied downrange. Sometimes, and I know I'll step on toes here, it's all about just the shooting and having a good time. I've shot more rounds out of my 9mm carbine recently than any other long gun. And I had a great time in spite of the wimpy cartridge performance compared to the others. And as far as a truck gun, in the off season, I think the 9mm carbine is a handy little gun. That's all it is, and it's plenty good enough.

So, fortunately, we have many choices. If the usefulness of a pistol-cartridge carbine is lost on you, keep plinking away with your
.357/.44/.45/.45-70 carbines, and think of them as an appropriate bedside gun, shoot 'em and be happy. If a 9mm carbine can fill any of the same nitches, and also work as a bedside gun, shoot it and be happy.

And by all means, if a feller doesn't like any of the choices, don't buy one. 8)

 

[lostatsea]

Ammo companies have ushered in new cartridges with the help of one or two firearms mfg's. 6.5 Creedmoor, 357 Sig, 10mm S&W are all good examples.

Presently my PCC is an M1 carbine. It's listed as a rifle cartridge but really all it is a high pressure straight wall cartridge which is neither rifle or pistol. It's a carbine cartridge and was originally designed as such.

If the industry really wanted a new carbine cartridge they could design one in a few months and have carbines that use it in the market within a year.

That cartridge would probably look a lot like a rimless 357 mag. I reload and I know that Alliant 2400 is a good powder for both 30 carbine and 357 mag. A rimless 357 mag would be one heck of a PCC cartridge. I've been waiting for the M1 carbine to be reinvented for awhile but so far nobody sees the market for a new cartridge to replace the 30 carbine cartridge. 1700 fps with a 158 grain bullet would be a very useful 100 yard carbine.

 

[grobin]

One big problem is that folks want a hunting legal companion for their hand gun. Colorado is very strict and requires a hand gun to have 500ft lbs energy at 50y! The 356 just barely makes that. A carbine (rifle) is required to have 1000ft lbs at 100y. Only the 30-30 and 45/70 of current carbine meet those requirements. Now if you live in Alaska if it's centerfire you are fine.

 

[COSteve]

Deleted

 

[lostatsea]

Yes, I know there are better powders for 357. 2400 isn't the best. I mainly only have 3 powders for everything I shoot and 2400 is a good all around powder for both 30 Carbine and 357.

I'm a huge 357 fan and would really like to see that cartridge available in a semi-auto carbine. I reload 9mm but I just can't wrap my head around a 9mm carbine after shooting a 30 carbine for so long. I'm pretty sure I would be disappointed.

If someone won't design a new semi 357 carbine the least they could do is market a new 30 carbine that's affordable like the Ruger.

I'm almost to the point of buying a 300 BLK because there just isn't anything out there except AR's and their spawn.

 

[DGW1949]

Thing is, if ya want rifle-like performance from a semi-auto carbine, ya gots to have some sort of locked-breech action which in turn is going to necessitate some sort of rotating bolt mechanism with some sort of gas or recoil operated mechanism to make it work...NOT a simple "blow back" action. So that being the case, the resulting gun would have to be bigger, longer, heavier than Ruger's PC...and as a result, what you'd end up with would be just another variation of the same types of semi-auto rifles/carbines which we've had for years....namely, A Ruger Mini or some sort of AR...either of which BTW, is already available in actual rifle calibers.

Just speaking for myself, I'm all about letting things be what they are as opposed to trying to make them something they ain't. In my experience, it makes for a much more harmonious outcome.

DGW

 

[grobin]

Steve et al, there is a rimless 357, the 357 SIG. It was designed by the TSA for use in planes and is not that good. We must get away from the shorty mentality to get a good carbine round (short barrels and cartridges).

As for a rotary bolt there are other variants like the inhertial lock developed by Benelli. Which are less expensive and better. BTW the direct impengement (m16) doesn't fire from a locked bolt!