Too "Deadly"?

[GunnyGene]

Ran across a comment on Bearing Arms about the FBI ammo selection that I've heard before, and always been somewhat amused by. What exactly makes a certain round "too deadly" for SD/HD? Is that like being "too pregnant"?

Seems to me that in SD/HD or hunting that there is no such thing. Being deadly is the whole point of ammunition (other than punching paper) is it not? Why would I want to use ammo that isn't deadly? I can understand the police, etc. using "less than deadly" or "just right deadly", since they usually want something left that they can arrest, but I don't have arrest powers. Unless it's going to make a really big mess of my house I can't understand why I should be concerned about my ammo being "too deadly". I'm far more concerned about it not being deadly enough. :mrgreen:

Excerpt: (My bold)

https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2018/01/06/fbi-selects-winchester-ammo-duty-training-purposes/

There’s a school of thought that says if you’re in doubt about what kind of ammo to buy, find out what you’re local police department carries and carry that. After all, they’ve supposedly already done the testing and everything. Plus, if a prosecutor ever tries to tell a jury that your ammo is too deadly for self-defense purposes, you’ve got the perfect counter to that.

 

[427mach1]

This is probably from a similar thought process that prevailed at the Hague Convention in 1899 when hollow point bullets were banned. The US did not agree to that part of the convention yet our troops still do not use hollow points, but that may be changing.....

 

[contender]

I once heard it explained as the LEO's using ammo that penetrated too much,, such as going through walls & hitting innocent people.

But I agree,,, ammo used for SD etc is supposed to be deadly.

 

[Mus408]

This is probably from a similar thought process that prevailed at the Hague Convention in 1899 when hollow point bullets were banned. The US did not agree to that part of the convention yet our troops still do not use hollow points, but that may be changing.....

Can't use a hollow point but can use artillery,rockets,grenades and an A-Bomb if needed!

IMO...I think a wad cutter round would be more effective than a HP!
As far as deadly any bullet can be deadly if it hits in right spot. Couple years ago a young child walking with his folks to a 4TH of July night time event was hit in the top of head and killed by a S&W .40 cal round from someone shooting up into the air from a good distance away.

Would I be in trouble if I shot a bad guy with my BFR .45-70?

 

[GunnyGene]

This is probably from a similar thought process that prevailed at the Hague Convention in 1899 when hollow point bullets were banned. The US did not agree to that part of the convention yet our troops still do not use hollow points, but that may be changing.....

FMJ is the most widely issued because it's cheaper. But there is a lot more JHP and other ammo issued than you might think. SF, MP's, etc.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Some time ago, a guy here shot a carjacker in the head with a 44 magnum. It made his head explode. There was a lot of talk after that about the victims family suing because of the excessive damage done by that round. Didn't hear much after that. I doubt it went further than the news media. :shock:

 

[GunnyGene]

This is probably from a similar thought process that prevailed at the Hague Convention in 1899 when hollow point bullets were banned. The US did not agree to that part of the convention yet our troops still do not use hollow points, but that may be changing.....

Can't use a hollow point but can use artillery,rockets,grenades and an A-Bomb if needed!

IMO...I think a wad cutter round would be more effective than a HP!
As far as deadly any bullet can be deadly if it hits in right spot. Couple years ago a young child walking with his folks to a 4TH of July night time event was hit in the top of head and killed by a S&W .40 cal round from someone shooting up into the air from a good distance away.

Would I be in trouble if I shot a bad guy with my BFR .45-70?

Every time one side comes up with a better weapon or tactic, the other side in a fight wants to ban it. In WWI it was pump shotguns, machine guns, armed airplanes, & tanks. The mouse always wants to ban the better mousetrap. :roll:

 

[mikld]

I dunno about "Over Kill" for SD/HD ammo. If it comes to shooting someone to protect myself or my family, I don't want to take a chance, I'll want the threat stopped ASAP. I have some 9mm loads I keep in my "just in case" gun that will penetrate 5, 1 gal. jugs of water and expand to 1/2"-9/16"+ moving around 1200-1300 fps. Having not tested these rounds on a cadaver, I'm guessing they would be sufficient...

But my favorite, if it was easier to carry, would be my 629 with 250 gr wadcutters over a hefty load of 2400...

 

[Ka6otm]

There was a pretty famous case here in Arizona years ago. A guy named Harold Fish killed a nut case who attacked him with a screwdriver.

He was in prison for a few years before a good lawyer finally got him out.

What was the prosecution's major argument? He used a caliber that was too deadly, so he obviously was looking to kill some one.

The cartridge? The 10MM

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

I'm sure some of you remember articles and the commotion attached to LEOs switching to the .357 Magnum when it first came out. First place I recall seeing the term "too deadly" or maybe it was "inhumane" (cuz it was too deadly! )

Rick C

 

[Tom-R2]

I've survived - physically and legally - an on-duty shooting. I'm going to carry what I believe will give me the best chance of surviving another encounter, if I would find myself in one (but I REALLY hope not). The human body, unfortunately wasn't designed with a "STOP" button, and the best spots to shoot to cause incapacitation will also carry a high probability of death. GOD didn't ask my thoughts when he designed humans, so we're going to have to deal with them the way HE built them. If criminals don't want to die or come close to dying, they can completely control the outcome though their behavior.

 

[dickn52]

I've survived - physically and legally - an on-duty shooting. I'm going to carry what I believe will give me the best chance of surviving another encounter, if I would find myself in one (but I REALLY hope not). The human body, unfortunately wasn't designed with a "STOP" button, and the best spots to shoot to cause incapacitation will also carry a high probability of death. GOD didn't ask my thoughts when he designed humans, so we're going to have to deal with them the way HE built them. If criminals don't want to die or come close to dying, they can completely control the outcome through their behavior.

Nailed it!

 

[grobin]

+1

This is BS from sleaze lawyer! It's why you need an attorney with experiance in defending firearms cases-not the guy who did your house settlement of your business contract! There can be a real problem of you use a firearm that over penetrates and injuries or kills a bystander. But realize that "stopping power" is a mith! See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage!

 

[DGW1949]

Dead is dead. There is no "too dead".

DGW

 

[Highhawk1948]

That's the way I like it.