The Great Western "The Deputy" Single Action

[Star43]

Right now I am watching John Wayne in "The Shootist". It made me think of an article I read in the American Rifleman issue February 2020. The last page of "I have this Old Gun"...In the article, it says John Wayne used his engraved pair of 45 Colt chambered Great Western Single Action Revolvers in the movie. Fast draw champion Dee Woolen, Audie Murphy and other notables used these guns in their endeavors. The article goes on to say that the Ruger Blackhawk (which is similar looking) and the reintroduction of the Colt Peacemaker foreshadowed doom for the Great Western Gun Company. With Financial problems and changing ownerships the company folded in 1963. Those of you with the magazine can read the whole article. The name of Great Western is somewhat memorable to me, but to be honest, I know nothing of the guns. But if they were good enough for John Wayne and Audie Murphy, among others to use them, they must have been pretty darn good. Again, the picture in the mag looks similar to a Blackhawk. My question is how many of you guys have heard of Great Western and do any of you own a Great Western ??? Right now in about 2 minutes, John Wayne will be using them in the memorable scene where he dies, but he gets the bad guys first with his "Great Westerns"......I am tuning in now....!!!

 

[Jeepnik]

They were generally well made and reasonably priced when compared to what original Colts were going for at the time.

They were more importantly available. Never having taken one apart I can’t speak to their internal works compared to a Colt.

 

[contender]

I knew of the "Great Western" revolvers LONG ago. I just always felt the Blackhawks just "fit" me better. I've shot a few,, but it's been some time now.
I just figured they were used in western movies because they were cheaper than Colts to be abused.

 

[Star43]

Looking at the picture in the magazine, the grip shape looks different. Maybe that is what didn't feel right to you ?? The gun looks similar to the Blackhawk otherwise, to me anyway. Did they shoot pretty well ??

 

[the_leper_colony]

...They were more importantly available. Never having taken one apart I can't speak to their internal works compared to a Colt.

A few years back, I was visiting a local pawn shop , and spotted a single action revolver on display. It was a Great Western chambered for .357 Atomic (how neat is that?? ;^); the price was VERY attractive, primarily because it wasn't functioning quite right & was actually missing some parts (firing pin & bushing, IIRC).

I drove down the street and talked to my gunsmith. He advised me that the missing parts were unique to the GW, and not available; if I brought the gun to him for repair, he would have to fabricate the parts, and charge me accordingly. That wasn't in my budget, so I told him where to find the revolver, in case he wanted to look it over himself.

He ended up buying it, and it needed more work than he initially thought, but I think he did well overall - there seems to be a pretty good collectors' market for the GWs, and he just loved single action revolvers!
:)

Edit: see link below

https://greatwesternarmsco.com/calibers/357-atomic/

 

[Star43]

I looked at the 357 Atomic attachment of yours. I had never heard of that before. It seems it is basically a 357 Magnum +, sort of like a 38 +P type of thing. So one could have bought this Great Western Gun and shoot this Atomic round or a regular 357. Or for that matter, even 38's if I am reading this right. When you think about it, it must have been a pretty stout gun ?? Heck, maybe that is John Wayne and others used them. They could be thrown across the floor or out in the dirt and still keep on firing ?? They sure sound interesting to me. I also see where you saw one but needed work but no parts are really available. I guess it always boils down to the the availability of the parts to make anything work.....

 

[Bob Wright]

I have acturally seen less than a dozen Great Western Revolvers in the steel. The ones I examined were very close copies of a Colt Single Action Army. As I recall, the case hardening colors were more "blue" than Colts. Also that ugly firing pin arrangement made an equally awful looking hammer profile. The Great Westerns had the Christy type firing pin. In one catalong I saw, a genuine Colt hammer could be had, for the additional cost of $8.00!

The imitation stag grips were either Fitz or Pointer Pups and added nothing to the guns. Sack Peterson, of stag grip fame, has a forum on Great Western revolvers.

Incidentally, I've toyed with the idea of converting a New Model Flat Top Ruger to "the Deputy" configuration.

Bob Wright

 

[peachhead]

Elmer Keith mentioned them in Sixguns and had pretty much good things to say about them.

 

[Bob Wright]

Not a Great Western, but a Hy Hunter, successor to Great Westerns: This is the hammer profile of the Christy firing pin:



Here is a Hy Hunter .357 Magnum. Hy Hunter was a distributor for Great Western and when that firm folded, he went to J.P. Sauer & Sohn in Germany to produce a close copy of the Great Western. Near identical, except the Hy Hunter was all blue, not case hardened.







Bob Wright

 

[Bob Wright]

Incidentally, Great Western Arms came into being especially to supply revolvers to the movie industry. Colts were too scarce at the time.

And, as to movie revolvers.....................Many Colt New Service and N-Framed S&W revlvers were modfied to be "stand ins" for Colts. Usually this included a fake ejector assemby and fitting fake stag grips.

Many years ago, prior to GCA 1968, New York arms dealer Robert Abels had many movie prop guns for sale. Send him a check and your gun came via Railway Express within a week or so. Days long gone.........................

Bob Wrght

 

[Bob Wright]

I knew of the "Great Western" revolvers LONG ago. I just always felt the Blackhawks just "fit" me better. I've shot a few,, but it's been some time now.
I just figured they were used in western movies because they were cheaper than Colts to be abused.

As a matter of fact, no working gun is abused in the movies. Where the scene calls for a gun to be thrown away,or dropped from a cliff ont rocks, etc. a rubber copy of that gun is used.

Bob Wright

 

[Star43]

That makes good sense. I guess there must be a lot of rubber guns at the bottom of those cliffs!

 

[Star43]

Incidentally, Great Western Arms came into being especially to supply revolvers to the movie industry. Colts were too scarce at the time.

And, as to movie revolvers.....................Many Colt New Service and N-Framed S&W revlvers were modfied to be "stand ins" for Colts. Usually this included a fake ejector assemby and fitting fake stag grips.

Wow, those were the days......The article in the Rifleman said they were from and built in LA. That would make it very convenient for those movie people to get their guns.

 

[Bob Wright]

Wow, those were the days......The article in the Rifleman said they were from and built in LA. That would make it very convenient for those movie people to get their guns.

That, plus the fact one of the big investors was a movie star, among other exploits, Audie Murphy.

Bob Wright

 

[KIR]

Just to mention his other exploits:
Audie Murphy: Rebel in Whispering Smith: Joe Queen, his favorite of all. Rode Tumbleweed in the movie Tumbleweed. Photographed with Flying John (white boots on forelegs) and raced Apache Agent to 1st place in Owner-Trainer Pony Race at Del Mar Turf Club on Sep. 8,1963.

 

[Jeepnik]

Heck, Del Mar was built by Hollywood types.

 

[Star43]

That, plus the fact one of the big investors was a movie star, among other exploits, Audie Murphy.

Bob Wright

It mentions also in the article that the owner of the Los Angeles Rams, I think it was Dan Reeves was also an investor. You know, it makes one wonder why they would have financial problems being right there in LA with al of these affluent investors right there plus the movie industry doing all those westerns at the time ??

 

[Star43]

Just to mention his other exploits:
Audie Murphy: Rebel in Whispering Smith: Joe Queen, his favorite of all. Rode Tumbleweed in the movie Tumbleweed. Photographed with Flying John (white boots on forelegs) and raced Apache Agent to 1st place in Owner-Trainer Pony Race at Del Mar Turf Club on Sep. 8,1963.

And all of this in 1963, when the company folded. There must be more to the story I would think ?

 

[Star43]

It would seem that the company would have plenty of business right there with not only the countless Western movies being made at the time, but how about ALL of the Western TV series that were going full bore back then. The majority of TV shows if not comedies, were all Western themed. You would think they would have a hard time keeping up with all the demand, and they were Right There in LA !! They must of had some real bad management to fail at that time !!

 

[Gator89]

I stumbled across this GW in 38 special for 3 Benjamins out the door.

The gun was low priced because it was originally sold as a kit. Barrel installed on the frame, but up to the purchaser to put everything else together.

Grip maker Sack Peterson is a wealth of knowledge on Great Westerns.

https://greatwesternarmsco.com/

 

[sack peterson]

I've collected them for years. They have a small but enthusiastic following and the guys that collect them all know each other. It's a pretty good vibe that way.

They are mostly well made, yes, and certainly from a material standpoint. But I would say suffer from their build in somewhat a non professional gun making enterprise that it kinda was there in LA during most of its years. You see some goofy ones the first 2 years and the last 4. Latter 55 thru 58 run are consistently good guns.

I think I was attracted to the story more so than the guns, but the guns can be very decent.

Having collected them for 15 years, not much interesting turns up in these recent years.

https://greatwesternarmsco.com/

 

[sack peterson]

I stumbled across this GW in 38 special for 3 Benjamins out the door.

The gun was low priced because it was sold as a kit. Barrel installed on the frame, but up to the purchaser to put everything else together.

Grip maker Sack Peterson is a wealth of knowledge on Great Westerns.

https://greatwesternarmsco.com/

Oh I was just stopping by.

 

[Star43]

Oh I was just stopping by.

Before you posted and even before the prior poster, I was thinking there must be some guys out there who collect these things. There is a lot of history there, not just in the movies, but just being what they were, decent pretty stout guns made in LA of all places....it is interesting for sure. I have to ask about the Hy Hunter guns. Are there guys out there who collect those ? It was brought up by Bob, that Hy Hunter took over after the original company folded in 1963.

 

[Star43]

Well, I guess there are no Hy Hunter guys out there. That is what makes me kind of odd. I would love to have one of those because of it's oddness. Yes, I understand they were hit and miss at the end, but if one could find one of the good ones, the price would probably not be that high, and what a conversation piece that would be at the range or whatever. Yes, it would also be great to have the original Great Western too. I am still thinking about the 357 Atomic round. Talk about something odd right there.....

 

[bykerhd]

Did the same company make the revolvers for Herters years ago ?

 

[Star43]

Did the same company make the revolvers for Herters years ago ?

I personally have no idea but hopefully our Great Western experts will chime in. I think it's a good question. Makes you wonder ??

 

[arfmel]

I think the Herters were made by JP Sauer & Sohn in W Germany.

 

[Star43]

I think the Herters were made by JP Sauer & Sohn in W Germany.

I think you are correct if I had to bet money on it.

 

[sack peterson]

Before you posted and even before the prior poster, I was thinking there must be some guys out there who collect these things. There is a lot of history there, not just in the movies, but just being what they were, decent pretty stout guns made in LA of all places....it is interesting for sure. I have to ask about the Hy Hunter guns. Are there guys out there who collect those ? It was brought up by Bob, that Hy Hunter took over after the original company folded in 1963.

Hy Hunter may have ended up with some small amount of GW inventory in 1964, but there was no GW company to operate by then. There were some liquidations and blow outs of old stuff, particularly by EMF.

He had been relieved of being the primary GW distributor in 1956 when GW's creditors took over the company. At that point he took a GW revolver to Germany and had JP Sauer copy it, with some changes that cheapened it up a little. That's the basis of the JP Sauer Hawes revolver and company (was rollmarked Hy Hunter 59-67).

.357 Atomic was marketed in 1954-55 but no headstamped brass was ever made. It was a 1600 fps .357, but we don't think the case was lengthened such that they tested / researched it. The whole idea was forgotten when companies started rolling out the .44 mag in 1956.

 

[Star43]

Hy Hunter may have ended up with some small amount of GW inventory in 1964, but there was no GW company to operate by then. There were some liquidations and blow outs of old stuff, particularly by EMF.

He had been relieved of being the primary GW distributor in 1956 when GW's creditors took over the company. At that point he took a GW revolver to Germany and had JP Sauer copy it, with some changes that cheapened it up a little. That's the basis of the JP Sauer Hawes revolver and company (was rollmarked Hy Hunter 59-67).

.357 Atomic was marketed in 1954-55 but no headstamped brass was ever made. It was a 1600 fps .357, but we don't think the case was lengthened such that they tested / researched it. The whole idea was forgotten when companies started rolling out the .44 mag in 1956.

That is interesting about the Atomic.....I was thinking about what started this thread to begin with. I came home late a couple of nights ago from work and turned on the good ol Grit TV and The Shootist was already half over and sat to watch it. Then remembering the Rifleman article. My question is what ever happened to those GW guns of John Wayne. I can still picture him on the floor behind the bar waiting to shoot a bad guy with his GW at the ready. Also the other guns like say Audie Murphy, etc. ?? Those guns must be collectors items, I would think ???