Teach me about the 38 super round

[lark63]

I have a email with a deal on a RIA 38 Super. I like Rock Islands but I have never dealt with this caliber. Reloaders throw your thoughts out there also.
Any thoughts good or bad are welcome.

 

[Bob Wright]

I have only minimal experience with the .38 Super. One of the men in my outfit in the Army (ca. 1956) bought a Llama in .38 Super, made like a Colt Government Model. First day we had it out experienced a separated case that put it out of action for that day.

Later we tried it out again shooting ground squirrels at ranges from about thirty to seventy five yards (estimated) and ran through several hundred rounds without a hitch. Very flat shooting, minimum recoil, very accurate in his pistol. Sort of .38 Spl +P ~.357 Mag. performance in an auto loader.

This the sum total of my experience with the .38 Auto/.38 Super.

Bob Wright

 

[lark63]

Thanks Bob- It's a start.
Centerfire has them on blowout prices so I might order one.
I have 2 Rock Islands a 45 and 9mm. Both are very basic 1911's but they have be very reliable.

 

[WendyZXZ]

My Colt .38 Super is my favorite pistol(semi automatic). Most information I have found is that .38 Super is equivalent to a 9mm + P and sometimes + P + loading depending on the manufacturer of the ammunition.

 

[lark63]

Thanks Wendy,
What brand do you have? Reload for it? If not, What are you shooting out of it?
It sounds like a good round from my research just not that common in today's line up.

 

[WendyZXZ]

Hi Lark,

The Colt here is a Colt:

Neither me or my husband reload and mainly find Winchester, Remington and Corbon loads in this area. The round is popular in Mexico so with that country being close we find plenty of ammunition. Most of the Corbon loads which are described as + P(most common here) advertise as 125 grain rounds at 1350 FPS, so fairly potent, but in the all steel Colt very easy to shoot.

 

[toysoldier]

Perusing my volume of Modern Reloading, the 9mm and .38 Super are pretty much equivalent, until you get to the heaviest bullet loadings, when the greater case capacity of the .38 (1.00cc vs. 0.74cc) gives it an edge.

The Super made its reputation as a hot, penetrating round back in the late '20s, when it could defeat the soft body armor of the day---multi-layered silk vests. It was compared to the anemic .32's, .38's, and slow-moving .45ACP. It's popularity in Mexico is largely due to the proscription on firearms in "military" calibers. Factory ammo is limited in variety and availability, and you are unlikely to find bargain prices. It is most often found in 1911 variants, where it offers increased magazine capacity over the .45.

Bottom line for me would be: is the pistol price low enough to cover the cost of reloading dies?

 

[contender]

The 38 Super is a very common competition round in the USPSA. It's primarily used in the "open" gun catagory where they build race guns in that caliber. With the current crop of race guns, and high capacity mags, you can get upwards of 26 rounds in one mag. Many load a 124 grn bullet in the 1350 fps range to make "major" in them.
We rarely see the 38 Super in any single stack type of gun in competition.

 

[cruzerlou]

When I start working part time at my buddies gunshop I'm going to build my self another .45 1911 and have been thinking about building one in .38 super too .As stated by Wendy I hear there very accurate and pack quite a punch while still being easy to control .Were also going to be manfactureing new ammo so that won't be a problem for me .Were going to start out building A.R.'s, 1911 and stamped recivier A.K.'s and later on custom bolt guns ,both hunting and sniper rifles .I most likely won't make a dime just be building new gun all the time .Hey I can't afford to buy them ,but I can work off the cost of building what ever I want .I'd rather have the guns anyway .We hope to start production this summer ,he just got his manf.licenes this month and the shop iis almost rerady to start up ,so I hope to be a busy bee this summer .
Lou

 

[lark63]

Here is the link from the email from Centerfire-

http://centerfiresystems.com/?utm_source=streamsend&utm_medium=email&utm_content=16362945&utm_campaign=JUNE-JULY%202012%20CATALOG%20IS%20NOW%20ONLINE%21

Top left on opening page.
Thanks for all of the thoughts. I did some research and all of the posts have been right on.
Very nice Colt Wendy.
Brass, Dies and so forth are not a problem to obtain.

 

[FastEd]

I've always enjoyed shooting .38 Super. In my 1911 Colt it is a very potent weapon, flat shooting and accurate. Standard loads are about 40 FPS less than a .357 mag. This rig is smooth as glass to shoot. The .38 Super round is identical to the old .38 Auto round. So to prevent shooters from firing Supers in the old Colt .38 autos the manufacturers stamp the case .38 Super+P. So, .38 Super and .38 Super+P are the same. Over the counter .38 Super ammo is not as expensive as the .45 acp. My favorite carry gun is a .38 Super Colt SS light weight Commander . Another bonus is the fact that the magazine will hold eight rounds. With one in the chamber that should be enough to get you home...

 

[Bob Wright]

The .38 ACP/.38 Super round:

If the semi-rimmed version is still made, not sure whether it went rimless of late or not, it can be fired in .38 Special or .357 Magnum revolvers.

Bob Wright

 

[FastEd]

I, personally, would not fire a Super.38 round in a .38 Special revolver. May be a little too hot.
Even in a .357, the Super round is designed for an extractor type gun. It may have a very small rim but if you insert it into a revolver cylinder you are going to have a head spacing problem. For a perfect fit the modern day Super needs to be fired in barrel that head spaces on the mouth of the case just like the .45 acp.

 

[Mike Armstrong]

The rimless round is a recent development and has a different name, which I forget. Don't know if it is reliable in an original .38 Super or if it needs a new barrel. Starline makes brass for it, as well as the original, and also brass marked. "Super .38 +P+" which seems the same as their regular .38 Super but is perhaps meant to mark users hot handloads as too hot for an original Colt.

I've fired many .38 Super 1911s and own a Commander-sized Llama in that caliber. Llamas vary a LOT in quality, but mine has been extremely reliable for many years and thousands of rounds. It was made in the early 1970s and imported by Stoegers. I've found that the best Llamas are those with a solid rib on the barrel; the later ones with a "ventilated" rib are less reliable.

The only advantage to the .38 Super for most non-USPSA users, IMO, is that it is a better hunting round at longer ranges than the .45 ACP. If you were to want it for varmint or small game hunting, or shooting deer at woods distances from a tree stand, I'd choose it over the .45. Otherwise, as already stated, it's main advantage is it is legal in some countries where the .45 Automatic is barred because of being a "military" caliber.

And it is fun to shoot at longer distances.

 

[22/45 Fan]

Early 38 Supers had a reputation for very poor accuracy since the pistols for it were chambered to head space in the too-small rim so cartridge placement was rather sloppy.

Current .38 Supers are chambered to headspace on the case mouth the way all rimless semi-auto cases ( 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, etc.) do. Headspaced this way, the .38 Super can provide very good accuracy in a well made pistol.