Suggestion to Leupold

[RJ556]

I know I was probably spinning my wheels but I was on the Leupold website and I saw their Suggestion/ comment tab. So, I dropped them the following suggestion:

It has long been a problem for many (I would say most) owners of Ruger #1 and #3 single shot rifles (as well as Browning and Winchester low and high wall single shots), finding a rifle scope that you can mount far enough back to get a proper sight picture through the ocular with even the longest eye relief scopes available today. Even when using offset ring-mounts (which degrade the looks of a Ruger #1), the only scope I can get to work is a Nikon Omega with 5" of eye relief. Although it is a very good scope, I do not consider it a good match as looks go on the #1. I have seen a few #1's on the Rugerforums.com that have the old Leupold 3x scope on them and they look perfect, and appear as though they would remedy the eye reilef problem that a lot of us #1 shooters encounter. Is there any chance that Leupold will bring back the 3x or come out with a similar scope that has a very long tube to the rear of the adgustment turret? I know that single shot rifles is a niche market, but I still think you would sell a bunch of them.

Thanks

 

[Quarterbore]

Glad you posted this as frankly I was not aware of this issue with the #1s. I will ahve to make sure before I select a scope that I bring the gun to a dealer to see what will work with the gun (not that I even have bought a 1a yet - have another purchase I need to pay off first) :idea:

 

[dgoalie]

Maybe contacting Ruger about this could be a help too. I would actually have some interest on a special scope run from Leupold. Maybe a run with a Ruger logo engraved on the adjustment caps.

 

[rugerjunkie]

I personally have never had an issue with a No.1 with any scope I ever wanted to put on one. I know some people do have troubles but I have a hard time seeing how and or why they have those issues.

The only problem I ever had was maybe a scope bell sitting on the rib to put the scope exactly where I wanted it. But by sliding it ahead just enough to clear did work for me. We're only talking a fraction of an inch to make things work. Are some scopes being used have that poor of an eye relief where that fraction I'm talking about for me makes it sit in a spot completely unusable?

I'm gonna get some flak here...but most trouble I hear about involves Leupold scopes. Ever think that they aren't as good as you would like to think they are? There are comparable,even better scopes for either the same or less money than Leupold. Although I do have Leupolds...I do feel they are overrated for what you get. As in shorter tubes to limit mounting options,still getting to crank on the eyepiece and jam nut to set focus,and less eye relief than a lot of other optios. Dunno...maybe it's just me??

Jeff

Jeff

 

[Sugar River]

The 3X Leupold is now available thru the custom shop. They've been working on reintroducing it for a couple years.

Pete

 

[RJ556]

Pete, that is good news. I will contact them. and Rugerjunkie, you may not have a problem with any scope on a number one but I do and I read the same complaint on many forums of not being able to get the scope back far enough. I have heard of many cases of shooters giving up and shortening the #1 stock to get the scope closer to their eye. Now, sure, I can mount any scope and crane my neck forward enough that I am in an unnatural position, which is not condusive to good shooting. Or I can hold my head in a natural shooting position and see my target in the center of the ocular like a donut hole and pretend, "oh yea, this eye relief is fine" Not so.

 

[mattsbox99]

Jeff, like you I've had no problems with scopes on my No. 1s, and both are Leupolds. One is a 3.5-10x50, the other is a 2-7x33.

 

[RJ556]

All I can say is that, if you guys can see a full view in the eyepiece of those scopes on the highest power setting, then I envy you, because I surely cannot. This is the only way that I can, and this scope has 5 full inches of eye relief.

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[picketpin]

The problem isn't so much eye relief as the more modern short tube scopes with very very little room between the front and rear ocular bells and the turrets. The above picture is a classic example and if the scope didn't have 5" of eye relief it still wouldn't work.

You have to remember that the #1 was introduced in 1967 and at that time scope tubes were MUCH longer. In the old days, Weavers, Redfields, Lymans and Leupolds worked just fine. And in fact still do UNLESS you buy a modern short tubed scope.

For Varmint rifle I run Burris Fullfields 10x, 12x and 6x18. The first Varmint #1 I bought still wears a Redfield 6x18, fron 1970!!

Many Leupolds still work and nearly all my smaller #1s, "A", "AH" and "AB" wear Leupold 2x7s in factory low rings with zero problems Many other "S" and "B"rifles wear Leupold 3x9s again with no problem with eye relief but do require a medium factory ring due to the increase ocular bell size.

What tend NOT to work and modern, short tubed scopes designed around fitting on short action bolt guns.

It's easy enough to scope one without any offset rings but you do have to be aware of the problem and purchase scopes accordingly. Not all scope work simply because you want them to.

There are probably 40+ #1s around here scoped up, not a single one has an offset ring as part of the mounting "solution".

On the list of what I know works are Leupolds in the M series regardless of power. The Compacts. The VX I up to 12x and the VX II up to 3x9.

Ross

 

[singleshot]

I'd have to second the M8 as a great scope for the No. 1's. I've been picking them up off and on for the past three months off of Ebay and GB for anywhere from $100 for one that turned plum to $150 for a NIB Ducks Unlimited (made for DU and has no Leupold markings).

The straight tube versions (no objective bell) fetch a pretty penny, but the versions witht the objective bells are everywhere. The last 3 I've picked up have been almost perfect lense wise, ring marks are a different story all together. If you can see ring marks in the picture, you'll be staring at them on the gun because you'll still be jamming the rear mount up against the adjustment housing and I have yet to mount it in the same spot.

Singleshot

 

[coyote]

.

agreed. i looked for a long time to find a good used leupold 3x for my #1A and even then, look how far back it has to sit to be correct:

 

[RJ556]

Picketpin, I fully understand what you are saying about the older scopes having long tubes. Why don't the scope manufacturers still make even a few models with long tubes? When I first bought my K1A, I went ahead and ordered a new Leupold 1.5x5x20 from Midway. I thought, this scope would fit if any of them would. I installed the lower ring halves on the rifle and laid the scope in them as far back as it would go, set on 5x. I shouldered the rifle normally and opened my eyes and I'll be damned but the reticle was in a small circle of light surrounded by a big donut of black. In other words, I had to crawl the hell out of the stock, straining my neck, to get a full field of view in the eye piece. I boxed up the scope and sent it back and ended up buying the Nikon Omega and offset rings. It is not very classic looking but at least it works properly. When I got my 1A 30-40 Krag, I just gave up and put a 2.75x Burris scout scope on it. I decided I wasn't going to screw up the looks of that fine rifle. Sugar River, I looked on Leupolds Custom Shop web site and they had no mention or listing of a fixed 3x scope. Has anyone else bought one of the 3x Leupolds from their Custom Shop?

 

[singleshot]

I went to Leupold site and looks through their scope options (which is a horrible layout if you ask me) and tried to work the custom shop. From what I gather, unless it's listed on their main page, then it isn't going to be listed in the drop-down menu on their custom shop page.

I also found no mention of a 3X anywhere.. I am interested in this also, so if anyone can find it please post up a link..

Thanks

Singleshot

 

[Juniper]

Picketpin, PM sent you about a long tube Burris scope

 

[308longdistance]

Maybe contacting Ruger about this could be a help too. I would actually have some interest on a special scope run from Leupold. Maybe a run with a Ruger logo engraved on the adjustment caps.

It's an older VX-l and I still needed offset rings for it.

 

[wunbe]

308Long Distance,

I have a large # of no 1s -- 30 orso -- and I need to get the ocular bell on all of them just where yours rides over the safety to shoot w/o creeping the stock.

Leupold 2x7s and 6xs work OK but damn near everything else -- including Schwaros -- need some kind of device for providing more rearward range for mounting the scope. I have used Ruger extension rings, Burris rails, and expensive custom mounts with success. The slickest is a Carolina Precision Rifle mount that is a custom quarter rib extending over the receiver ring.

Too damn bad Ruger won't do it right at the factory after 40+ years of getting it wrong.

wunbe

 

[RJ556]

Thank you guys for letting the others know it is not just my imagination.

 

[308longdistance]

Wunbe;

I have found two Zeiss Conquest scopes that do the job for me on the No.1. The Conquest 4X, which has been discontinued, and the Conquest 3-9X40. The other Zeiss Conquests seem to have a shorter tube.

The No.1B has the 3-9, and the 1A has the 4X. Both are with 3B low mounts. Both have 4" of eye relief

 

[picketpin]

As a "general" rule you need to n=be able to place the rear of the scope just above the safety and have 3+ inches of eye relief to get things to come out correct without the use of one or even two offset rings.

Just a real quick look at some Leupolds around here that work without offset rings shows M8 4x, M6X, M812X, Compact 6x, VXI 3x9 (4) VXII 2x7 (4) VXII 3x9-40 (3)

Pretty sure the 338 and the 30-338 have Leupold 3X scopes.

Everything else in the house seems to have older Burris Fullfields (Not IIs) or last El Paso generation Weaver Micro Tracs,, K2, K3, K4, K6. K8-56, K10 and K12s. along with V1-5, V2x7, V3x9 and V4x12

Burris Minis in 4x, 6x, 3x9 and even 4x12 seem to work also.

I'd have to go out to the reloading room to check any more. and my ankle hurts today. ;-)

I'm old

Ross

 

[luvs2hunt62]

m\MY SOLUTION--I DESIGNED A MOUNT THAT FITS OVER THE ORIGINAL RIB--IT USES THE 3 REAR SCREW HOLES TO MOUNT A WEAVER RAIL THAT IS CANTILEVERED TO THE REAR TO GIVE YOU ALL THE MOVEMENT YOU WANT.THIS ONE IS ON A CUSTOM 300 WBY, WITH A ZEISS CONQUEST

THIS A STOCK 300 WIN MAG #1B--THE STOCK WAS CRACKED AND I GOT THIS COMPOSITE FROM A FORUM MEMBER.

HERE IS ANOTHER ON A #1B IN 22-250.

THEY WORK FOR ME.

 

[picketpin]

Actually Ruger didn't get it wrong. One has to remember the rifle was designed and introduced in the mid 60s and the rib fit the scopes of it's time just fine.

It really has been the switch to much shorter tubes and smaller scopes over all time that make the rib iffy with some scopes.

There are work arounds. I'm just too lazy and after 40+ years know what will work without problems and as I can still find them, that's what I buy.

For what it's worth there is a Leupold M8 3x on GunBroker for $275.

Ross

 

[308longdistance]

L2H62,

Now I see why you designed the custom mount. You really need to set the scope back on the No.1 for your style of shooting.

I still haven't used the customs that you sent my way, but I may try one on the 7MM STW if I stay with the Leupold that is on it now.

 

[Con]

I also found no mention of a 3X anywhere.. I am interested in this also, so if anyone can find it please post up a link..

Thanks

Singleshot

The Leupold 3x is available to be ordered. It was released/announced on the 1st Feb, I believe they'll start shipping towards the end of Feb. These are the specs on it ...

New 3x vs old 3x specs
Actual Mag. 3.4x v 2.7x
Length 10.3” v 10.3”
Obj. Tube Len. 2.95” v 2.95”
All OD and Length Dims are the same
Glass MC4(VX2) v MFGL
Adjustment Coin Click, Finger Click, M1, Target, CDS v Friction
MOA Travel 80 v 100
Field View 30 v 43
Eye Relief 3.9” v 3.9”
Weight 8.7oz v 8.7oz
Reticles All Electroform, Includes custom reticles v 5 (Dot, Leu-Dot, CPC,Dup, X-hair)
Erector VX-II design v Old Ball Pivot
Main Spring Dual v Single

Mine will be going on a No1 in 450/400NE.

A picture harvested from elsewhere:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/19264/filename/FX-II%203X20%20BIG%20BORE%20GLOSS2.jpg
Cheers...
Con

 

[singleshot]

So..

I just got off the phone with Leupold. As previously stated, this scope is through their custom shop and will NOT be cataloged. The price... hold on to your shorts.... $350.00 a pop...

I'm still sitting here wondering if the used stuff is still a better deal even without all the "modern" coatings and such..... I was hoping for a $250.00 dollar range, then I could do a couple and put them away for future projects.

 

[RJ556]

Con, I thank you for all of that info on the 3x Leupold. For that kind of money, I will have to do some precise measuring to see if it will solve my problems. If the ocular sits above the safety installed, then it will probably work for me.

 

[dfletcher]

FWIW I've used the Nikon ProStaff 2 to 7X shotgun scope and it has sufficient eye relief - I'm tall, don't know if that helps or hurts.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

ive had no problems with the straight tubed leupold 1x4 and 1.5x5s and the vari x and vx2 2x7s. My 2506 wears a vx2 3x9 and it works fine too. As a matter of fact all my #1 rifles have leupolds on them.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

I went to Leupold site and looks through their scope options (which is a horrible layout if you ask me) and tried to work the custom shop. From what I gather, unless it's listed on their main page, then it isn't going to be listed in the drop-down menu on their custom shop page.

I also found no mention of a 3X anywhere.. I am interested in this also, so if anyone can find it please post up a link..

Thanks

Singleshot

It's not on the web site. Call them and talk to the custom shop, they can set you up. Trust me. :wink:

 

[chuck]

Darn I would like to read your post but it wont fit on my screen.

 

[Major T]

I bought an old 3x at a gunshow a while back-still good as new. It is longer and that may help, but the eye relief isn't close to five inches. If you can do with low power, their ultralight 2.5 does have five inches, but the tube is short. I don't think that helps as the long tube helps ofset ER. Maybe so the custom shop could make the ER longer for you in most any configuration. Jack