striker vs hammer

[vito]

I am mostly a revolver guy, but have a semi auto question. What are the significant differences, and pros and cons, of a hammer fired versus striker fired handgun?

 

[charlesappel]

Hammer fired would offer two potential advantages.

1) A hammer fired pistol should impart a heavier impact to the primer - thus making misfires less likely.

2) DA/SA auto pistols such as the Walther PP, the Ruger SR22 and Ruger P345, allow the user to cock the hammer in order to obtain a lighter crisper trigger pull. The SA pull on my Walther PP pistols is markedly crisper and cleaner than on my Glock 19s. Since DAO auto pistols cannot be cocked, this advantage disappears.

 

[pjvrefugee]

striker fired offers the same trigger press from start to finish. no long stiff first shot , just one consistent pull to get used to. generally a nice crisp 5-6 pounds.

 

[Clovishound]

I like a striker for a carry weapon. It is a longish pull, but many, like my SR9c, are in the 5 to 6 lb range. As was stated before, it is the same pull regardless of first, or subsequent round out of the magazine.

I like an SA hammer fired for a range weapon. They are much crisper with a short pull.

There is nothing wrong with a hammer for carry. You must, however, deal with a DA first pull, and SA for the rest of the mag. This assumes an SA/DA with a decocker. Of course, the other option is to cock the weapon after pull from holster. Not a great option in my mind. 1911 style are normally carried cocked and locked. DAO are just too long and heavy a pull for my tastes, but work for lots of people.

 

[FergusonTO35]

I like striker fire for my autos and DA/SA for my wheelguns. I can't shoot most autos or small revolvers double action well at all. I can shoot my Service Six and S&W 10-5 quite well in double action, and make one ragged hole single action. I am getting to the point that I can split the difference accuracy wise with my Glock 19, which I am quite happy with for a combat pistol.

Currently my Kel-Tec PF9 is my main CCW gun. It's easy to carry, super dependable, and I can shoot it about as good as I can my wheel guns double action. I am very much looking forward to the new LC9S. Almost the same size as the PF9 and uses the same holsters, Ruger quality, doesn't fling brass into the next county, and (fingers crossed) a much improved trigger pull for under $400.00 real world price.

 

[pjvrefugee]

my three favorite carry weapons are the SR9c, SR40c and XDS 45. simple, accurate and reliable. also all three are very accurate.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

I would say there are both striker fired and hammer fired guns that range from fine designs to close to pretty poor designs and executions of said designs. It really comes down to a preference of the entire gun and it's firing type. I own both and have no real preference in the triggers alone, it really amounts to the whole package.

 

[robkarrob]

No one answered the OP question. The following is over simplified.

We are talking pistols - Hammer fired:

Single action - The hammer is fully back, held back by the sear (like a revolver with the hammer back). The trigger pull drops the sear, which releases the hammer. The hammer falls forward and impacts the firing pin which is driven forward, to contact the primer (boom).

Double action - The hammer is partially back (like a double action revolver). Pulling the trigger causes the hammer to be fully pulled back, and at the fully back stage it then reverts to single action, described above.

Pistol - Striker fired

The striker is similar to a firing pin, except that it is spring loaded. When the slide is racked, the striker is fully cocked back and under spring pressure, held back by the sear. When the trigger is pulled, the sear drops and the striker is released, which moves forward, striking the primer (boom).

So single action hammer fired and striker fired are very similar. The difference is the hammer is released and strikes the firing pin, which is driven forward and impacts the primer. The striker is released and impacts the primer. The striker has fewer parts (no hammer), and is usually lighter weight and less expensive to make.

A striker fired gun is similar to a fully cocked 1911. The pull of the trigger releases the hammer or striker, and the gun goes boom. Both generally have internal safeties that will not allow the gun to fire, if dropped, etc., unless the trigger has been pulled back a little. Both can be made to have a short, light trigger pulls.

The double action pistol is like a double action revolver, you can't lighten the pull too much or you can get light hits, and the trigger pull is longer.

There are a few pistols that have a combination of both double action and single action. The first pull of the trigger is like a double action revolver, and then the pull is like a single action revolver. The issue with this type of pistol is you have to adjust to two completely different trigger pulls.

Pros and cons between striker fired and hammer fired pistols are a matter of individual preference. I have all three, a single action, a double action, and striker fired pistols. Since the single action and striker fired have shorter trigger pulls, and less pull weight, I prefer them. Now choices are going to vary depending on the use of the pistol.

Bob

 

[charlesappel]

Pistol - Striker fired

The striker is similar to a firing pin, except that it is spring loaded. When the slide is racked, the striker is fully cocked back and under spring pressure, held back by the sear. When the trigger is pulled, the sear drops and the striker is released, which moves forward, striking the primer (boom).

This describes some striker fired pistols such as the Raven, but it does not describe them all. For example, the Glock striker is not fully cocked when the slide is racked. It is only partially cocked. The Glock trigger moves the striker to the equivalent of a full cock position and then releases it.

 

[modrifle3]

In general striker fired pistols offer two major advantages:

1. They are usually cheaper for a pistol in the same class as a hammer gun. The manufacturing process is shorter due to fewer parts resulting in this lower price. Easier to design and manufacture = low cost.

2. In a carry role they are usually slimmer with smaller slides and few external controls to get caught on things. My preference if carrying a striker weapon is a Glock as I prefer the fact the striker is not at full set until the trigger is pulled. If the striker were to break and fall, there is not enough energy to ignite the primer. Glock is unique in this, pistols such as the SR and XD have a fully set striker if cocked. Not sure about the M&P and my understanding is the SD series is a true DA striker pistol. I have no experince with them other than a few dry fires at a LGS. XD offers a safety version but are rare. The proper training and holster are a must for any weapon, but to me striker guns increase the need.

The cons to a striker gun is that most have a mushy trigger and some like the SR have a soft breaking point so it takes training to learn the take up and break. The trigger on a higer end hammer gun such as a beretta or sig beat most striker guns I have shot.

I am a hammer gun guy, but own both. I like to carry DA/SA hammer autos due to their natural safe state of carry with the hammer down. In DA state you have to make a decision to pull the trigger. Unless you are under extreme stress, there is no ND with a hammer down DA auto. I rarely carry my 1911, but if I do, it is hammer at half cock position. I know people will ding me for this, but I have 3 very personal reasons for this extra level of safety and they range in age from 3 to 11 years old.

I would also clarify that I am speaking of civilian carry, I have no issues with duty or military carry of striker weapons or SA cocked and locked carry.

No matter which you decide on, both are wonderful. It is important to determine what you will do with it and how.
Carry it?
Just at the range?
Get a great holster and don't be afraid to try a lot of them and spend some money. I hear people say they can't afford a $100 holster that fits well and is safe. If thats the case you most likely can't afford the legal cost incured with a legitimate shooting, much less the medical cost of shooting yourself trying to wrestle your gun out of a crappy $20 holster. Same goes with ammo. For carry, get good ammo and train with it. I hear people say they are not willing to buy ammo that is $30 for 20 rounds and practice with it. You need to practice with your carry ammo. Not a lot, but you should never buy on box of carry ammo and not test fire a few mags. A 124 gr 9mm SD round functions differently than a 115gr fmj in my LC9.

Most importantly, train, train and train some more. Training is the difference between life and death, whether we are talking about shooting at cans in the back yard, at the range or carrying down the street.

 

[FergusonTO35]

Very good writeup! I must clarify that the Ruger SR series has a partially cocked firing pin at rest like the Glock does. Lots of practice and a good holster is just as important as what gun and ammo you choose.

 

[charlesappel]

I am a hammer gun guy, but own both. I like to carry DA/SA hammer autos due to their natural safe state of carry with the hammer down. In DA state you have to make a decision to pull the trigger. Unless you are under extreme stress, there is no ND with a hammer down DA auto. I rarely carry my 1911, but if I do, it is hammer at half cock position. I know people will ding me for this, but I have 3 very personal reasons for this extra level of safety and they range in age from 3 to 11 years old.

I'm afraid I have to ding you for this. Carrying the 1911 pistol at half cock is the most dangerous way to carry it (if the chamber is loaded. Should the half cock notch fail, the hammer can strike with enough force to fire the pistol. This can easily happen if the weapon is dropped. It is somewhat like carrying a fully loaded Colt SAA on half cock. Some 1911s have an internal safety that prevents firing unless the trigger is pulled, but I am still a little leery of carrying a 1911 that way.

 

[modrifle3]

I am a hammer gun guy, but own both. I like to carry DA/SA hammer autos due to their natural safe state of carry with the hammer down. In DA state you have to make a decision to pull the trigger. Unless you are under extreme stress, there is no ND with a hammer down DA auto. I rarely carry my 1911, but if I do, it is hammer at half cock position. I know people will ding me for this, but I have 3 very personal reasons for this extra level of safety and they range in age from 3 to 11 years old.

I'm afraid I have to ding you for this. Carrying the 1911 pistol at half cock is the most dangerous way to carry it (if the chamber is loaded. Should the half cock notch fail, the hammer can strike with enough force to fire the pistol. This can easily happen if the weapon is dropped. It is somewhat like carrying a fully loaded Colt SAA on half cock. Some 1911s have an internal safety that prevents firing unless the trigger is pulled, but I am still a little leery of carrying a 1911 that way.

Intersting . . . I have a Remington R1 that I have test at half cock several times and it doesn't even dent the primer. The R1 will drop the hammer if the trigger is pulled. Not sure at this point if all will or not. This is the only one I carry.

Now you have me thinking twice about it.

 

[charlesappel]

Intersting . . . I have a Remington R1 that I have test at half cock several times and it doesn't even dent the primer. The R1 will drop the hammer if the trigger is pulled. Not sure at this point if all will or not. This is the only one I carry.

Now you have me thinking twice about it.

I am told that this is normal behavior for the Remington R1 - but I am very "old school" and it would bother me. A
quick Internet search indicates the at least some 1911 pistols using the Series 80 type safety system will also allow
the hammer to fall if the trigger is pulled while at half cock. Once again, this would worry me.

However, my primary concern isn't that the trigger will drop the hammer. I am concerned about a sharp blow to the
hammer or the pistol landing hammer down on a hard surface. This could shear the notch and cause the pistol to fire.

BTW: My Ruger SR1911 will not drop the hammer from the half cock position when the trigger is pulled and neither
would any of the older Colt 1911s I have worked with.

 

[modrifle3]

I need to see if my Springers will ... Can't believe I never tested this. The R1 is 80 series type so impact discharge is not a concern, but I wish the hammer did not fall at half cock. I rarely carry the 1911 any way. If I feel I need full size max firepower (I rarely do) I grab the Glock 21.

 

[modrifle3]

Very good writeup! I must clarify that the Ruger SR series has a partially cocked firing pin at rest like the Glock does. Lots of practice and a good holster is just as important as what gun and ammo you choose.

Thank you for the clarification on that. I was not aware of that.

 

[robkarrob]

Most all modern 1911 style pistols have internal safeties. They prevent the gun from firing, as they block the firing pin, unless the trigger is pulled back some. Not all have this, but the major manufacturers do. Then you have the guys that want a very short pull trigger, and they end up removing this safety, in favor of the short pull. This might be fine for a range/competition gun, but not for a SD weapon.

Bob

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Most all modern 1911 style pistols have internal safeties. They prevent the gun from firing, as they block the firing pin, unless the trigger is pulled back some. Not all have this, but the major manufacturers do. Then you have the guys that want a very short pull trigger, and they end up removing this safety, in favor of the short pull. This might be fine for a range/competition gun, but not for a SD weapon.

Bob

Bob, I would say that both Ruger and Springfield are "major" manufacturers, both of their 1911 offerings are 70 series types, no blocks are involved in their trigger groups.

 

[gc70]

Intersting . . . I have a Remington R1 that I have test at half cock several times and it doesn't even dent the primer. The R1 will drop the hammer if the trigger is pulled. Not sure at this point if all will or not. This is the only one I carry.

The R1 has a hammer with a flat shelf at the half-cock position, which is common to 1911s with firing pin safeties. If you pull the trigger when the hammer is in the half-cock position, there is nothing to prevent the sear from rotating away from the hammer and off of the shelf, allowing the hammer to drop.

The original 1911 hammer design has a notch at the half-cock position. If you pull the trigger when the hammer is in the half-cock position, the nose of the sear is trapped in the notch and cannot rotate away from the hammer.

However, my primary concern isn't that the trigger will drop the hammer. I am concerned about a sharp blow to the hammer or the pistol landing hammer down on a hard surface. This could shear the notch and cause the pistol to fire.

It would require quite a blow to break a hammer. It is more likely that a severe blow, or dropping a 1911, might depress the grip safety, allowing momentum to effectively "pull" the trigger and fire the gun.

 

[dakota1911]

I will give my view of it. Two things I consider is options for carrying with a live round in the chamber and what do you do if you have a dud when you pull the trigger.

Starting with a SA 1911 pistol, or a couple of them. A 1978 Colt 1911 on the top made in 1978 and a new Colt Series 70 in SS made in 2013 on the bottom.



You can carry with the hammer down on a live round. Considered a very bad idea even though there is the grip safety. You could carry it on half cock. Again a bad idea and you would have to cock it to fire, but again there is the grip safety. Lastly, and recommended by most folk is to fully cock it and engage the thumb safety. To fire you release the thumb safety and pull the trigger. Of course by holding onto the pistol the grip safety is off. In case of a dud the first thing you might try is to recock the hammer and pull the trigger again. I added the new Series 70 because Colt elected to put a Series 80 hammer in it so there is no true half cock, just a little shelf that will hopefully catch the hammer if your thumb slips while cocking, and, as noted, while on this little shelf if you pull the trigged the hammer will drop slightly, but not enough to fire the pistol. Other 1911s with Series 80 systems also have this not halfcock feature.

As for striker fire you can have DAO and what I like to call staged where the striker is mostly cocked. Below is a Taurus Millenium Pro on top which is a DAO striker fired pistol. Just like a cap pistol, every time you pull the trigger it goes click. This pistol also has a thumb safety and a heavy trigger pull since you are cocking the striker every time you pull the trigger. In case of a dud the first thing you might try is to pull the trigger again. Below that is a Glock 36 where the striker is partly cocked and you pull the trigger to go bang. In case of a dud you would have to pull the slide back, ejecting the round and recocking the striker.



There are of course DAO hammer fired pistols. Below is an AMT backup. Just like that Taurus it goes click every time you pull the trigger and you see the little hammer come back and drop. You can in no way reach in with your thumbnail or something and cock the hammer.



There is also what I consider to be at least one 1911 variant that is sort of a stage fire. That is my little Para Carry with Para's LDA (Light Double Action) trigger.



You stage it when you pull the slide back. At this point the hammer is just over a mm back further. You pull the trigger to go bang, but if you have a dud you have to pull the slide back to recock it. There is no cocking the hammer with your fingernail or something. You carry this with the thumb safety on but it is not obvious that the hammer is cocked.

Lastly there is the SA/DA with a hammer drop safety and time for a Ruger. In this case a P90. There were DAO version of this made I think. A lot of folk think they are the best of both worlds. As far as I know there is no striker fired variant of this, they all have hammers, even though sometimes the hammer do not have a tang on them.



I have others from S&W and even a Colt Double Eagle. The Ruger was a good value for the money, like the new Single action SR1911s are and the other SR pistols.

The big thing, as others have said, is know the features of your pistol and practice, practice, practice.

 

[modrifle3]

That's a nice p90!!!

 

[groberts]

striker fired offers the same trigger press from start to finish. no long stiff first shot , just one consistent pull to get used to. generally a nice crisp 5-6 pounds.

Same is true of a DAO hammer fired pistol like the LC9/380.

 

[groberts]

Intersting . . . I have a Remington R1 that I have test at half cock several times and it doesn't even dent the primer. The R1 will drop the hammer if the trigger is pulled. Not sure at this point if all will or not. This is the only one I carry.

The R1 has a hammer with a flat shelf at the half-cock position, which is common to 1911s with firing pin safeties. If you pull the trigger when the hammer is in the half-cock position, there is nothing to prevent the sear from rotating away from the hammer and off of the shelf, allowing the hammer to drop.

The original 1911 hammer design has a notch at the half-cock position. If you pull the trigger when the hammer is in the half-cock position, the nose of the sear is trapped in the notch and cannot rotate away from the hammer.

However, my primary concern isn't that the trigger will drop the hammer. I am concerned about a sharp blow to the hammer or the pistol landing hammer down on a hard surface. This could shear the notch and cause the pistol to fire.

It would require quite a blow to break a hammer. It is more likely that a severe blow, or dropping a 1911, might depress the grip safety, allowing momentum to effectively "pull" the trigger and fire the gun.

That seems like a dumb idea to me. In a tense situation you draw your gun and pull the trigger, nada?

 

[groberts]

striker fired offers the same trigger press from start to finish. no long stiff first shot , just one consistent pull to get used to. generally a nice crisp 5-6 pounds.

That heavy first shot is a big advantage in most SD situations - you are making a commitment to harm someone so you need to be sure. Once you have made that commitment, however, follow up shots are easier.

 

[Joe Survival]

For those that might believe a hammer provides greater impact to the primer, remember, there are no DA/SA pistols that can be fired under water where that is possible with a striker-fired pistol.

Ruger P95 fired under water
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdsHq_v8EY8

 

[CurlyQ]

Most of the pros and cons posted here about striker fired vs hammer fired can actually be applied to either type.

Neither has an inherent advantage in primer striking power. I've seen striker fired guns that could punch a primer like a pile driver, and hammer fired that barely get the job done. It's all a matter of the physics in the mass of the hammer, the mass of the firing pin/striker, power of the springs, etc. And there's nothing to prevent a hammer fired gun from firing under water, with the right combination of those things. But I suspect firing under water isn't exactly a priority for most gun manufacturers.

Although most do, not all striker fired guns use the semi cocked trigger system made popular by the Glock, actually a cross breed between single action and double action. There are pure double action striker guns, and there are DA/SA versions. Just as there are different functioning versions of hammer guns. And yes, there are even single action striker guns that must be cocked before firing (HK P7 is one example). And not all hammer guns have the advantage of being able to cock it without racking the slide/bolt. Some hammer guns have the hammer carried internally.

The ONLY difference between a hammer and a striker gun is one puts the spring power behind a hammer which strikes the firing pin, the other puts the spring power directly behind the striker. The rest depends on the design of the individual gun.

So in the end, the only real advantage between one or the other is mostly just a matter of personal preference.

 

[groberts]

Vito, if you haven't figured out by now there are a million opinions about which is better - and a million misconceptions. Here is one more that looks at it with respect to your revolver background. As you know there are revolvers with hidden hammers. There are also semi-autos with hidden hammers. Strikers are also hidden. There are also revolvers with the "firing pin" built into the hammer so there is no separate firing pin. Strikers have no separate firing pin. So strikers are kind of like hidden hammers with a built in firing pin. They have a different shape and a different mass but functionally they are very similar.
I have fired striker fired weapons. I have, however, never owned a striker fired weapons and based one everything I have read, here and else, I never will. As stated by someone above each weapon is different and the generalizations of the difference given above are pure bunk. For each advantage, or disadvantage, a person can give about one type an example can be found of the other type that has the same thing. I could write a book addressing the misconceptions stated above but that wouldn't convince anyone. It all boils down to your preference. And IN MY OIONION as a revolver person you would be happier with a hammer fired semi-auto.

 

[Amistad]

To each his own on this issue. For me:

1) I want to be able to see the hammer's position at all times.
2) I want to be able to feel the hammer's position when in a pitch black room.

Just my two cents... :mrgreen:

Amistad

 

[Mike J]

To each his own on this issue. For me:

1) I want to be able to see the hammer's position at all times.
2) I want to be able to feel the hammer's position when in a pitch black room.

Just my two cents... :mrgreen:

Amistad

I agree "To each his own", however if I am carrying a pistol I know what state of readiness it is in. I own a hammer fired DA/SA pistol, a DAO hammer fired pistol with a shrouded hammer, a striker fired pistol & a single action hammer fired pistol as well as an old DA/SA revolver. My opinion is that either system works. My striker fired pistol as well as most of the popular ones of recent manufacture has a striker indicator that sticks out the back of the slide when the striker is cocked. It doesn't really matter to me though as I know whether it is cocked or not & whether a round is in the chamber or not. I still check the chamber if I have the pistol unholstered & am fooling with it though just as a safety precaution. My opinion is either system can work & work well. You just need to decide what you want & need (Of course with guns you might have to buy one of each system just so you can check it out :wink: )

 

[wolfee]

57k, you might want to take a look at this video. Bizarre underwater slo mo shooting with what is clearly a da/sa ruger. Didn't have the sound on but think it's a P89.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OubvTOHWTms