STOPPING POWER

[Jimbo357mag]

How can a 44 mag hollow point not give over 90% stopping power and a 9mm, 357, 40, and 45 does? Must have left that one out by mistake. I would say the 44 magnum is King of the one shot stop. (except for the extreme cartridges) 8) 8)

...Jimbo

 

[coyote]

...How can a 44 mag hollow point not give over 90% stopping power and a 9mm, 357, 40, and 45 does?...

my guess, Jimbo, is that it mostly has to do with bullet design and the velocity they travel, plus what internal damage they each do while in the human body (we're not talking bear or elk here...)

 

[Yosemite Sam]

... And I would question that a .44 Special has less stopping power than a .45 ACP, when both have nearly identical mass and velocity, and extremely similar cross sectional density. But that is, admittedly, a nit pick.

Could it be that the percentages are somewhat weighted by the cartridge's popularity, and therefore number of cases submitted for review?

-- Sam

 

[coyote]

... And I would question that a .44 Special has less stopping power than a .45 ACP, when both have nearly identical mass and velocity, and extremely similar cross sectional density. But that is, admittedly, a nit pick.

Could it be that the percentages are somewhat weighted by the cartridge's popularity, and therefore number of cases submitted for review?

-- Sam

i'm not defending their data, just explaining as i understand it.

comparing the two cartridges in general would give the 45 auto a better rating if for nothing more than the larger availability of high quality bullets used in factory rounds that are included in their charts.

ie: there are few 44sp high quality defense loads, and even fewer with any top-of-the-line bullets. 200 gr 44sp silvertips are the best rated in that caliber, while the top-rated federal 230gr hydra-shok in 45acp is simply a much better bullet design (which isn't available in a 44sp factory defense load).

 

[TRanger]

How can a 44 mag hollow point not give over 90% stopping power and a 9mm, 357, 40, and 45 does? Must have left that one out by mistake. I would say the 44 magnum is King of the one shot stop. (except for the extreme cartridges) 8) 8)

...Jimbo

Very likely due to a much smaller data base of shootings with the .44 Magnum. The other cartridges listed are far more popular as defense rounds and much more frequently used. Tends to effect the statistical results.

 

[Terry T]

"LuckenbachTexas",
I think it's because the 44mag over penetrates and does not dump all of it's energy in a human body. It really is not as effective on humans as the other cal.
Terry T

 

[stantheman86]

I don't buy into any "statistics" for handgun cartridge one-shot stops.

There is no mathematical equation for what will keep you alive in a gunfight.

It's already been said, carry what YOU trust and are proficient with, not what some gun rag or website tells you to carry.

I'm pretty confident in my 4" Service Six loaded with the "original" .38+P Super Vels from the 70's. If 6 in the cylinder and 12 reloads won't save me, I guess I should have brought a rifle 8)

 

[Jakers]

I don't know about current studies, but data about stops usually rely's upon different generations of bullets. Bullet construction and materials change. A 38 special from the 1960s can't be compared to the same type of bullet today. They are not the same. The revolution of these bullets really picked up speed during the 1990's.

It's nonsense to put the 44 mag at 50% when we all know properly loaded, with the right projectile selected, it will perform as good as any.

These studies are a diservice. The only difference between the police load of the 41 mag and the 40 SW is bullet contruction.

 

[stantheman86]

That is true......some people might say "you only carry a .38 Special?" but the difference between 158 gr. LRN and something like Golden Saber is night and day.

 

[LuckenbachTexas]

good info

 

[coyote]

...It's nonsense to put the 44 mag at 50% when we all know properly loaded, with the right projectile selected, it will perform as good as any....

absolutely, but sanow/marshall only dealt with factory loads actually used in shootings at that time. modern corbon DPX loads, and the like, just aren't included in their charts.

 

[Bucks Owin]

How can a 44 mag hollow point not give over 90% stopping power and a 9mm, 357, 40, and 45 does? Must have left that one out by mistake. I would say the 44 magnum is King of the one shot stop. (except for the extreme cartridges) 8) 8)

...Jimbo

Very likely due to a much smaller data base of shootings with the .44 Magnum. The other cartridges listed are far more popular as defense rounds and much more frequently used. Tends to effect the statistical results.

You're probably right. If truth were known, I'd bet the .22 rimfire, .45LC and maybe even .44/40 have "stopped" more people in total than the cartridges listed, simple due to their age and the numbers in circulation....

I could be all wet though, the .38 Spl is awful common and if we add the .45 ACP in military service... :?

Who knows!?! Interesting thread but I'll stick with the notion that what you have in hand is "best"... :wink:

 

[don44]

How can a 44 mag hollow point not give over 90% stopping power and a 9mm, 357, 40, and 45 does? Must have left that one out by mistake. I would say the 44 magnum is King of the one shot stop. (except for the extreme cartridges) 8) 8)

...Jimbo

I agree with you 100%

 

[Pinecone]

pisgah has analyzed it "correctly" and made a great post. Stopping power is relative to who gets hit "where & how". With "what" really doesn't matter if the "subject" died! Dead is dead. I had an aquaintance die accidentally from one shot with a .22 long rifle under the armpit. As pointed out in hundreds of studies, suspects have taken multiple rounds and were able to continue to afflict murderous fire. Read about the FBI Miami shootout! While stopping power is certainly a "consideration", it's not always an absolute equation..................Dick :wink:

 

[WendyZXZ]

How can a 44 mag hollow point not give over 90% stopping power and a 9mm, 357, 40, and 45 does? Must have left that one out by mistake. I would say the 44 magnum is King of the one shot stop. (except for the extreme cartridges) 8) 8)

...Jimbo

Honest guess is that the bullets might be heavier constructed and less likely to expand in a person as opposed to a game animal and shoots through leaving a .44 caliber hole?

 

[Donaldjr1969]

How can a 44 mag hollow point not give over 90% stopping power and a 9mm, 357, 40, and 45 does? Must have left that one out by mistake. I would say the 44 magnum is King of the one shot stop. (except for the extreme cartridges) 8) 8)

...Jimbo

Honest guess is that the bullets might be heavier constructed and less likely to expand in a person as opposed to a game animal and shoots through leaving a .44 caliber hole?

Wendy, I also suspect that most of the data from 44Magnum is probably with bullets such as the jacketed soft point. Figure that a standard 44magnum bullet is 240g and a standard 45acp bullet is 230g. Granted the Magnum is about 400fps faster. But with a good hollow point design, it will still expand enough to cause massive tissue damage along with hydrostatic shock. As you know, Federal makes a Hydra-Shock round for the 44Mag. It has a 240g slug with a ME of 780 ft/lbs and a MV of 1210fps. That is pretty much in line with the WWB 240g JSP load.

 

[skip]

The best one shot stop of those calibers is the one you shoot the most accurate with...

 

[Rclark]

Well, I 'figure' my 'equalizer' .45 Colt 255g bullet travelling at 900fps will do the job. No stats, no anecdotes, no bull, no hydrospastic shuck talk, etc...... just a long history since 1873 of getting the job done (if you hit what you aim at that is). Hope I never have to put it to the test... but there she be.... Oh, easier on the o' ears too. Same with .44Spec.

 

[Boge]

Well, I 'figure' my 'equalizer' .45 Colt 255g bullet travelling at 900fps will do the job. No stats, no anecdotes, no bull, no hydrospastic shuck talk, etc...... just a long history since 1873 of getting the job done (if you hit what you aim at that is). Hope I never have to put it to the test... but there she be.... Oh, easier on the o' ears too. Same with .44Spec.

Well, you'd be dead wrong. I highly recommend getting a copy of "Sixguns" by Elmer Keith and reading what he had to say about .45 Colt "stopping power." Next to worthless with pointy lead bullets that zipped right through. Great penetrators. Lousy stoppers. This was discovered in the Phillipines as well despite all the BS that has been handed down through the years.

Bullet design coupled with the correct velocity window is EVERYTHING and cal. has nothing to do with handgun stopping power. That is why the .357 SIG has gained a reputation as a virtual "death ray." It has picked up where the 9mm 115 gr. +p+ started in the 80's when LE got serious about stopping people. Modern light & fast HP's stop people.

Remember, this ain't like hunting where you can smoke a Marlboro while the prey bleeds out in the brush. The point is to STOP the bad guy and not necessarily kill him/her. Unfortunately many times it comes to that however.

However, the the same science that has progressed light HP's has also benefitted large cal. handguns as well. Right now the best SD ammo you can buy is anything loaded with the Barnes solid copper HP's as loaded by Corbon & Double Tap. They are incredible.

 

[LuckenbachTexas]

32 mag baby with a dose of appropriate forties as backup.