SRH Extraction Problems

[Freedom]

I have a question for all that may know something about the 454 SRH. I had one a few years ago and shells would seize in the chambers after firing and I would have to drive them out with a hammer and punch.... I sold the gun and have since started wanting another one.

My local gun shop has one in the case...the owner is a friend of mine and I asked him about it...he said that is the same story behind the SRH he now has for sale... the guy that brought it in said it would not eject 454's. (I checked and it is not the same one I sold..lol)

SO is it possible to find a good one of these that will shoot the old Freedom Arms ammo..(I have lots) that are loaded to 60,000? ..a 260gr heavy jacket at 2006 fps.... or is this just the nature of all the 454 SRH's?

I would probly rather have a 44 but the 454 is so nice and I have tons of stuff for it.

Thanks everyone!

 

[flatgate]

Zowie! 60K loads? I don't think I'd shoot those in a Ruger. I'm not positive, but would suspect that the SAAMI specs are probably lower.

I shoot 335's at 1575 fps from my F-A with zero troubles. I don't think I'd shoot your 260's in it, though.

flatgate

 

[Freedom]

well I may be wrong about the ammo...They are Factory FA loads.(old blue boxes) and I am pretty sure that was the PSI,,,but they may have been 50,000.

Either way, my problem is with the ruger SRH and from what I have seen, the SRH will not eject ammo much stronger than 45 colt loadings.???????? has any one had better experiance with the SRH??

Thank you for the reply flatgate!

 

[Silent Sam]

My understanding, and I'm no expert, is the original FA ammo was made specifically for FA guns as they were the only 454 game in town. They are indeed loaded to higher pressures than current production 454 ammo from today's manufacturers. FA ammo only had to work in FA guns which were held to very close tolerances, more so than mass produced 454s which did not exist at the time. FA no longer makes ammo. Current 454 commercial ammo is loaded around 10k psi less than original FA ammo (and the SAAMI spec which was derived from the original combination of FA guns and ammo which is indeed 60k+ psi) specifically to ease extraction in mass produced guns from various manufacturers which are not built to the same standards as the FA guns. I believe there was also changes in the brass used. All of the current (non-FA) ammo I have fired required a firm smack to eject cases from my Ruger. None falls out like cowboy 45 colt loads nor do I expect it to. I would either use the original FA ammo in a FA gun or save/sell it as a collector or to someone's use in a FA gun. I would not reload used FA brass for full house loads in my Ruger. If I really wanted to use original FA ammo in a Ruger and especially if I wanted to reload that brass, I would call FA and see what they say and heed their advice.

 

[onthehunt]

I believe SAAMI specs are 60k or 65k for the .454 Way up there. Anything close to that will stick the brass in mine. I've found the Winchester brass to stick the least and Starline to stick the most. Hornady in the middle somewhere. It's priced accordingly to this as well. The max loads are hell on brass as well. I only get 2-3 reloads on the Win or Hor. brass before the mouths crack. I think the brass is harder and less flexible. Download 10% and your good to go. It will still take anything on the planet.

 

[SteveRuger]

My Son & I took our SRH 7-1/2" to Alaska for just under 2 weeks & we both shot ours at least 25 to 30 times each & we never had the problem with the Hornady factory loads & the guns never cleaned while we hunting infact a few times they were real wet!

 

[flatgate]

Handloads.com has a chart with SAAMI specs.

454 Casull: 50,000 cup

flatgate

 

[Silent Sam]

Did a search for "454 Casull SAAMI".

They show cup for 454 Casull as N/E (not established). They do show MAP (maximum average pressure) based on piezoelectric transducer system as 65000 psi. Don't know where Handloads.com is getting the cup value from but it doesn't appear to be coming from SAAMI.

I started here...
http://www.saami.org/PublicResources/ANSI_Manuals/ANSI%20Z299_3-2003%20%20TOC.pdf

 

[Yankee2500]

While I had my 454 SRH I fired 300gr Winchester factory 454 ammo through it and had no extraction problems. I did find out you can't load a mixed cylinder of 454s and 45LC cowboy loads and fire the 454s first, it will pull the bullets out of the 45LC. lol

John

 

[k22fan]

Conspicuously absent from this thread is the obvious point that FA revolvers only eject one at a time using a more rubust ejector. Presumably with equally smooth chambers Ruger's relatively fragile ejector system has to overcome six times as much force. In my eye that makes Rugers quality not look so bad nor FA's so stupendous.

Best Regards;

Gil

 

[Freedom]

Thank you all for the replies... I had read that ruger used a more flexible steel for there 454 cylinders to contain the large pressure round in a six hole cylinder...( most everyone else uses 5) and this lead to extaction problems as the cylinder expanced and then contracted on the brass..

I know of several of these SRH's that had this problem so I thought it was just a flaw that most had experienced. But seeing how no one here has replied with this bad news...Maybe I'll just have to give it another shot and hope that the last two I had were just lemons.

Thanks
everyone

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think I would shoot the ammo in the SRH either.

The thrust produced by a 60,000 psi load in a .45 caliber gun is almost twice the thrust that is created by a .44 Mg. at 36,000 psi.

The Redhawk and the SRH are designed to withstand 36K pressures in a 44 Mg. for a good long time, and they do, but over time, and probably not much time, these loads 45 cal 60K will have a detrimental affect on the SRH. It seems to me like a bad way to treat a pretty good gun.

You CAN shoot a Redhawk loose in 44 Mg., I have done it, but it does take a lot of full pressure loads to do it. Up the diameter of the cartridge and the pressure to 60K, and I would think that it would not take very long at all. 8)

 

[maxpress]

Speer says the SAMMI is 50,000 and they say there loads do not exceed 45,000 because sticky cases are a factor. They also warn that since the 454 is no longer a proprietary for the FA. it also says this data SUPERCEDES and make OBSOLETE any data from prior speer manuals. it goes on to say some old ammo was 65000 psi.
Couple of thing to remember is that all brass is not equal and i just read an article that FA didnt use the same brass all the time.
FA's are more of a "Custom production" gun and Rugers are a "regular base model". The FA should be more polished inside and out.
Also any residue in a chamber at 60000 is going to be a big deal especially if 45colt was ever shot in it. I would be all for at least a bore snake between cylinders.
I was just on the hunt for more power and would really lean toward a .480 ruger since it operates at a max of 48000and dosnt have near the percieved recoil of a 454 and they both shoot325gr bullets at 1400fps. And the 480 can ploop out a 400gr at 1200.
Of course i just decided to use Brian Pearce's article on how to get a redhawk to shoot 340gr .44mag bullets at 1400fps. that saved some dough for a new gun. 8)
Welcome to the forum and i hope it works out for you.

 

[Silent Sam]

The only way to know for sure is to buy the latest SAAMI data. The reference I linked to is not dated. It does list the 500 S&W but not the 460 S&W. That and SAAMI states their data is superseded every five years would allow interpolation to figure out if it is current or not. Anyone know intro dates for the two S&W cartridges? SAAMI data was published in 1993 as I have seen material with date. So that "should" mean 1998, 2003, 2008, as pub dates. If the 460 was out prior to 2008 with sufficient (whatever that would be) time to be included, then I would conclude the data I'm looking at to be superseded. If the 460 came out after 2008 then I would be inclined to believe what I'm looking at to be current, unless the 500 was out before the 2003 or prior publication(s). A lot of assumptions there but again, the only way to know for sure is to buy the latest SAAMI data as there is obviously conflicting data out there from sources other than SAAMI referencing SAAMI. I would consider any advertised "SAAMI data" listed as cup as suspect as I see it listed in psi and I can't imagine them going back to a cup measurement after previously measuring in psi and I believe they had already switched to transducer measurement, at least for new cartridges, when the 454 was standardized. In any event it is a "high pressure" cartridge and requires due diligence. I would also accept that original FA loaded ammunition to be at a higher pressure than any currently manufactured ammunition or recently published load data. Whew...

 

[CraigC]

According to Speer #14 SAAMI pressure specs for the .454 are indeed 65,000psi but both factory loads as well as their own data are kept to 50-55,000psi in deference to the SRH. The Carpenter Custom 465 stainless used in their cylinders was chosen for its strength and elasticity. It's that elasticity that allows them to chamber a six shot cylinder in a cartridge like the .454Casull but what also causes sticky extraction if pressures exceed 50-55,000psi.

In short, use those old FA factory loads in an FA revolver. It was designed to operate at those pressures.....for all its life.

 

[maxpress]

The other thing i meant to say was you might wanna go get your cylinders honed nice and shiney.