SR9, slide closes when mag inserted

[freedomcosts]

Just started doing this, over 1,000 rounds throught this gun. About once every 5-6 times I lock the mag in- I don't SLAM but I stick it in there- forcefully- the slide closes and it feeds a round.
Also, a few weeks ago, I noticed, maybe once out of 40-50 rounds, the trigger fails to re-set. Could one have anything to do with the other ya reckon? What do I do about the slide closing?

 

[22/45 Fan]

Slides closing spontaneously on firm magazine insertion is a common occurrence with many semi-auto pistols so what you are experiencing is not a rarity. My old M&P9 used to do it if I wasn't fairly gentle inserting a mag. As to the trigger reset problem, I don't see that being a part of the magazine "problem" unless it's always on the first round after you insert a new mag.

 

[Taterman]

Maybe a worn slide stop? Do you use as a release often?

 

[Rei40c]

Maybe a worn slide stop? Do you use as a release often?

This is exactly what I sent my 40c back for. Like Freedom's mine started around 900 rounds. Had it back within a week. Slide stop replaced, not a problem at all after that trip back. I never used it as a slide release or abused it in anyway.

 

[freedomcosts]

Ok, good info, thanks. I do use the slide-stop as a release, about half the time. usually when I'm thinking about fast reloads, not just for the easier way. I really work on my pistols as self-d weapons, so a lot of my practice is with that in mind. Seein' as how I can't run anymore-
I'm afraid the re-set problem is due to the Ultimate trigger bar I had installed. I know many don't like the modifications, but I wanted to, so I did. G'smith installed, and he's good about checking his work, so I'll drop it off and see what he says.
Kinda worry Ruger won't fix the slide-stop cause I modified, but, well, I knew that in advance. But I know I don't like that slide closing with the mag..I really don't like it.

 

[22/45 Fan]

I'm afraid the re-set problem is due to the Ultimate trigger bar I had installed......... Kinda worry Ruger won't fix the slide-stop cause I modified...

I wish you had mentioned these changes in your OP. They would have let us know the gun was no longer factory stock.

 

[gramps]

I don't see a problem. You are going to close the slide anyway, this way is more efficient!
gramps

 

[freedomcosts]

it is certainly a faster reload - fixing to call Rger, see what they say

 

[Rei40c]

I don't see a problem. You are going to close the slide anyway, this way is more efficient!
gramps

Ha true! And it absolutely was faster. What freaked me out about it was that I was used to the normal manual of arms. During my reload I hold the gun up in front of my face at a 45 degree angle pointing up and left. (I'm right handed). So the first time this happened I was at the range, after that it did it every single time a new mag went it. It bothered me for two reasons.

1. I don't want to be chambered until exactly the moment I want it to happen, and not a moment sooner. I want this step to be a choice each time from slide lock.
2. The fact that the guns up and left when the round goes in and not down range as I try to keep it at all times.

 

[Rei40c]

Kinda worry Ruger won't fix the slide-stop cause I modified, but, well, I knew that in advance. But I know I don't like that slide closing with the mag..I really don't like it.

Yah, I'd be too. What I hear is the worst that can happen is you will be restored to factory spec. Meaning your new trigger bar goes in the bin. However mine technically is not factory spec and it's been back both times from them without change. My changes where minor, talon grips, and I polished the barrel hood smooth. Neither where internals but still they didn't mess with it or even mention it. I'd call first and just tell em what you told us. nvm i see u already did.

 

[freedomcosts]

My real concern- if the slide-release function is MALfunctioning- when that slide slams closed- will the firing pin also MALfunction?
I know the safeties are there, but- didn't get thru to Ruger yet- when I do, considering the modified parts, I'll let yall know what they say.

 

[Rei40c]

My real concern- if the slide-release function is MALfunctioning- when that slide slams closed- will the firing pin also MALfunction?
I know the safeties are there, but- didn't get thru to Ruger yet- when I do, considering the modified parts, I'll let yall know what they say.

Yup, plus theres the fact the firing pin does not fully retract by design, you can always see at least the tip sticking out. That's why my spent primers always have that drag mark from the center of the primer, like a line carved. I don't think it's enough to contact the primer. I don't think it can, otherwise it would be firing every time a rounds chambered. I think the two are not related. gl with it.

 

[animal]

I contacted Ruger regarding about this as well. They mentioned it is a feature standard on the SR models. It's meant for faster reloads and competition shooting. I thought it was a defect, but they assured me that it was standard and meant to do that. So now that I know... I am OK with it.

 

[Altered]

I contacted Ruger regarding about this as well. They mentioned it is a feature standard on the SR models. It's meant for faster reloads and competition shooting. I thought it was a defect, but they assured me that it was standard and meant to do that. So now that I know... I am OK with it.

Not trying to jack the thread but this got my attention. I just got my SR45 yesterday and was thinking mine did not do this. After practicing I found only if I semi slam the mag in, like I was in a hurry, does it automatically chamber the round. The more force I put the mag in with the more consistent it chambers a round. Not sure if I am explaining this good but if I just normally load a magazine it does not chamber a round. Is this normal? Or is it suppose to load one in the chamber every time no matter the force used?

 

[freedomcosts]

I really don't think it's supposed to close until you tell it to. I'm starting to think it's my magazine- one of them- I'm going to an outdoor range tomorrow, where I can fire a lot of rounds in a short time. I'll use different mags- see if all 4 do it, or only the one I have marked. Should have thought of this before- the follower- lips- can get out of whack, and not hold the slide back. I'll let ya know what I find out.

 

[Altered]

Well I just went back and tried repeatedly with my 2nd mag then back to my 1st to see if there was a difference in mine. And there was none. If I throw the mag in semi forcefully it chambers up a round instantly. If I just insert the mag like I was having a conversation and didn't want to miss a word then it does not close the slide. I can make mine do either way consistently just by the way I load either of my mags into the gun. I think I will do like animal and make them tell me my SR45 is made to do this or not. I am curious as h**l now.

 

[gc70]

I really don't think it's supposed to close until you tell it to. I'm starting to think it's my magazine- one of them- I'm going to an outdoor range tomorrow, where I can fire a lot of rounds in a short time. I'll use different mags- see if all 4 do it, or only the one I have marked. Should have thought of this before- the follower- lips- can get out of whack, and not hold the slide back. I'll let ya know what I find out.

The fact that the slide will release when a magazine is forcefully inserted is the simple result of physics and is not a defect or an intentional design feature.

The slide stop lever is normally in a down position (and even has a spring to hold it down) so that it will not impede the movement of the slide. The only time the slide stop lever moves to its up position is when the user manually pushes it up to lock back the slide or the follower in an empty magazine pushes it up to lock back the slide after the last round is fired. If you totally remove the slide and insert a loaded magazine in the frame, you will find that it does not (or should not) engage the slide stop lever in any way.

With the slide locked back and an empty magazine in the gun, the slide stop lever is held up by two forces: the greater force is the magazine's follower pushing up on the lever with the full force of the magazine spring, and; the lesser force is the tension between the lever and the notch in the slide as the recoil spring tries to pull the slide forward. That is why it is harder to press down the slide stop lever with an empty magazine in the gun than with a loaded magazine or no magazine.

The momentum (mass X velocity) of forcefully inserting a loaded magazine can jar a gun (particularly one with a light frame) enough to overcome the tension between the slide stop lever and the notch in the slide, allowing the slide stop lever to drop and the slide to go forward. Try this: insert a fully loaded magazine forcefully enough for the slide to release and then repeat the exercise using the same insertion force with a magazine loaded with one round. You will find that it is far easier to jar the slide stop lever out of engagement with a fully loaded magazine than a magazine with just one round. However, you don't even need a magazine to be able to jar the slide stop lever out of engagement; a good whack from a rubber mallet on the bottom of the frame will also do the job, which would prove that the phenomenon is not the result of a magazine defect.

 

[Altered]

you don't even need a magazine to be able to jar the slide stop lever out of engagement; a good whack from a rubber mallet on the bottom of the frame will also do the job, which would prove that the phenomenon is not the result of a magazine defect.

I don't know my SR45 I tried like heck to knock it lose. I hit it with at least 2 times the force multiple times on the bottom of a loaded and empty mag and it never shut. I am still not convinced its a "defect" per say. I see animal stated he contacted Ruger and he claims they say its normal. I have reread the manual and there are a few lines that almost touch on it but they do not say it is made to do it. Here on page 22 at the bottom is one example.

2. Insert a loaded magazine. WARNING: The slide stop is held in place by the
slide pressing against the rear of the slide stop. Therefore, when there is a
loaded magazine in place and the pistol is jarred, the slide can fly forward and
chamber a cartridge. For this reason and as an essential safety practice, the
pistol should always be pointed in a safe direction.

 

[gc70]

I am still not convinced its a "defect" per say. I see animal stated he contacted Ruger and he claims they say its normal.

Auto-forwarding (the common name used in S&W forums) is not a defect unless it is totally uncontrollable and it is perfectly normal depending on how forcefully a magazine is inserted. However, it is not a specifically-designed feature - Ruger engineers did not say "Let's make the slide stop lever disengage if a magazine is inserted with more than X pounds of force."

Several things make auto-forwarding more or less probable. The angle of the engagement surfaces on the slide stop lever and notch in the slide is one factor; surfaces angled like \\ will disengage more easily than surfaces angled like ||. The amount of engagement surface also matters; surfaces angled like \| or |\ will disengage more easily than parallel surfaces because they have a smaller area of engagement. The texture of the engagement surfaces is another factor; slick surfaces will disengage more easily than rougher surfaces. A lighter or worn recoil spring will put less tension on the engagement surfaces than a heavier or new recoil spring. An extended magazine with more rounds has more mass and imparts more momentum when it is forcefully inserted into the frame than a standard magazine or a magazine loaded with fewer rounds. A lighter frame has less inertia to resist the momentum of forcefully inserting a magazine, so polymer guns tend to be more prone to auto-forwarding than the same size steel gun.

 

[freedomcosts]

Well, ran over a hundred rounds thru 3 different mags and it happened with all 3. Didn't try the single-round test, just now seeing your message gc. I did try several times, with different EMPTY mags, to get the slide to release- it wouldn't do it.
I've had this SR9 for almost two years, it never did this until a few weeks ago. Still kinda concerned, might calll Ruger, too- we can compare notes. My 9c doesn't release, and it's older than the 9.

 

[gc70]

I did try several times, with different EMPTY mags, to get the slide to release- it wouldn't do it.

If your gun auto-forwards when inserting an empty mag, you have a problem. An empty mag's follower, pushed up with the force of the mag spring, holds the slide stop lever in the up position.

 

[freedomcosts]

gc, considering the gun never did it before- and it has over 2,000 rounds thru it- but it started all of a sudden, and does it with 3 diffrnt mags, wouldn't you think the slide-stop has gone bad? and probaby should be fixed?

 

[CurlyQ]

The slide stop engaging the notch in the slide is subject to the same mechanics as a sear engaging a hammer notch. The important factor is the angle at which the two parts engage. If the slide notch engages the slide stop at a positive angle, the notch is angled so as to push the slide stop up slightly holding it in the locked position. If the notch is angled the other way, you have negative engagement, and the notch tries to actually push the slide stop out of lock. A neutral angle is just that. The notch is angled so that it doesn't push the slide stop in either direction. Like a sear and hammer notch, the more positive the engagement, the less likely it is to be released by a jar or impact. And like a sear and hammer notch, wear on the surfaces will tend to make the engagement less and less positive over time, making premature release more and more likely.

I've seen guns with "hair triggers" on the slide stop. I came across a well worn 1911 a while back that would release the slide if you just waggled the gun around in your hand. I've seen others that wouldn't release no matter what you did to them.

There is no "right" or "wrong" here. Well, sort of. If the angle is too negative the slide won't lock open at all. Which is not good. But otherwise it comes down to personal preference. If your slide stop is too loosy goosy, and you don't want to, or can't send it back for service, it's easy to fix. A very light treatment of the slide notch and/or slide stop with a file or dremel can alter the angle and tighten it up to suit your style.

By the way, if you have the habit of thumbing the slide stop to release the slide, instead of pulling the slide back to release it like most manufacturers recommend, this greatly increase the wear on the surfaces and will cause the lock to loosen up faster than normal. This is the best single argument I know for not using the slide stop as a release.

 

[Taterman]

Good post CurlyQ. Explains it perfectly.

 

[gc70]

gc, considering the gun never did it before- and it has over 2,000 rounds thru it- but it started all of a sudden, and does it with 3 diffrnt mags, wouldn't you think the slide-stop has gone bad? and probaby should be fixed?

CurlyQ nailed it. Parts wear when they rub together and the recoil spring has also lost some of its strength after 2,000 rounds. Put those factors together and your gun has become more prone to auto-forwarding.

Has the slide stop lever gone bad and should it be replaced? The lever has undoubtedly worn some, if only surface polishing. As CurlyQ said, whether it should be replaced is a matter of preference; some competitive shooters file and polish the lever to insure auto-forwarding every time they insert a magazine. Since it seems to bother you, go ahead and replace your slide stop lever ... and replace the recoil spring while you are at it.

CurlyQ is also correct about releasing the slide with the slide stop lever. The lever catching the slide or being released by retracting the slide results in nearly no wear; releasing the slide by thumbing down the lever does produce wear.

 

[freedomcosts]

Thanks guys- good stuff Curly, makes it clear.
I don't habitually release with the slide-stop, but I do - maybe half the time- it's when I'm working on fast reloads, ya know? If I'm just plinking I slingshot it. Guess maybe I've done it too much, cause my 9c- with more rounds thru it, and 10-round instead of 17-round mags- still works fine.
OK, got great advice, now it's up to me- and again, thanks guys.

 

[mysquishy]

i have an M&P 45c does the same thing, if i put a mag in fairly hard it chamberes a round.

 

[Pocketfisherman]

On Some ammo with a longish bullet ogive like found on hollow points, the side of the bullet tip will contact and bump the part of the slide stop that sticks inside the mag well. It is supposed to contact the magazine follower so the slide stays open on an empty mag. I have seen this happen on other pistols and assume it is also a possibility on Rugers too. If you see copper deposited on that part of the slide stop, try different ammo with a different bullet profile.

 

[freedomcosts]

I can see that but- I hardly ever fire HPs anymore. Once I determined the HPs that were absolutely dependable, I bought some- and only fire FMJs for practice- on occasion I fire a mag-full of HPs just to be sure nothing's changed, but not lately when this started happenin'.

 

[freedomcosts]

OK, took the 9 to local G'smith and he said- something's wrong, sending it to Ruger. With the Ultimate trigger bar and the Galloway springs in it. Did I mention I had a couple of double-feeds and a couple of stovepipes while figuring out what to do with the slide release? I did....
So 10 days later I get it back from Ruger- my Galloway springs and trigger bar in a plastic sack. And here's what they said:
Repleaced barrel extractor, 1 magazine, magazine disconnect, slide-stop assembly, striker assembly, striker blocker, trigger assembly, trigger bar uplift spring, trigger bar re-set, ejector, fire control housing.
I don't know what most of those are.
Both my 9 and 9c are engraved on the top of the slide, or it sounds like they may have replaced the whole thing- maybe the frame, too.
So, picked it up, walked into the range- trigger is really good- maybe as good as when I sent it off with the Galloway parts in it. Can't tell any difference, really. But as soon as I popped the mag in, the slide closed. All 3 magazines.
So I will ignore the slide closing, unless it gets worse or something. And now have to decide whether to re-install Galloway's stuff- right now it doesn't make sense, does it. But I didn't fire it alongside the 9c, which has the same parts in it- after I do that, if I see no difference in triggers- guess I'm good to go. Re-sets just as well as with Galloway's., too
If anyone wonders about the new trigger group, vs the original- the serial # is 331-71xxx. Maybe the newer triggers on SRs would explain why it's as good as with the Galloway parts in it?