"Snake swallowed Gopher" look to reloads

[johndm1967]

I just started reloading 9mm and 45ACP for my P Rugers, rounds have that 'snake just swallowed a gopher' look with a clear bulge of the bullet seen on case. I read this can be fixed by belling the case more. Does this sound right? I'm using Lee Turret press with Lee 4 die carbide sets for 9mm and 45ACP.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

There are many things that can cause this look and if the finished bullet to case alignment is off, that's a bad load. What I mean is there is an offset between then center of the bullet to the case center. The bulge is pronounced on one side compared to the other. This can be caused by the bullet shifting during the seating process, a miss alignment from the shell holder to the die will also do this.
It normally is because the bullet wasn't centered while being seated and not a shell holder to die misalignment but it should be looked at.
A good open bell allows the bullet to center as it is being pushed into the case but you need to find a happy medium, too much bell is another issue.
Some seating dies are better than others at guiding the bullet to case on center, I have never had an issue with Hornady seating dies and RCBS has also been just as good.
There are times the a sizing die will cause this effect but the bulge will be uniform and normally not an issue. It will depend on the round and the gun it's used in. The use of off sized bullets such as loading a .38/.357 bullet in a 9mm will of course do this and I will not get into an argument on doing really stupid stuff because you can.

 

[Jim Puke]

Some brands of brass seem to be worse about this than others...have seen it a good bit over the years.

As long as they chamber and shoot well with no obvious problems, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[mr surveyor]

pictures of the example rounds would certainly help.... "snake swallowed a gopher" could be interpreted several ways

 

[gmartinnc]

Dies made now by RCBS Redding and Lyman, don't "bell" the case at all. The new ones form a precise little pocket for the bullet to sit in which does away with the alignment problem that causes what I think you are seeing. If the user will take the time to place each bullet in the case properly, the ammo will look like factory loaded rounds.
When I learned of this new design, I called RCBS and they replaced all of my expander plugs, free of charge. These are all I use now and after belling cases for 35 years, these work better.

 

[Mobuck]

All of mine have that look to some extent. Basically caused by slight to moderate "oversizing" of the case.
How much the mouth is belled will have little effect on this condition. Some cases are thicker than others and show the bulge more.

 

[Cholo]

If the bulge is uniform, I've never had a problem. A case gauge is your friend...

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Sometimes the sizing die can size the case down too much before the expander plug opens it up and bells it for the bullet. You might try backing off on the sizing die a little. Also the Lee FCD will post size the round to make sure the diameter is spec.

With a single-stage press I usually start the bullet into the case a little and then open the press and spin the bullet before finishing the bullet seating operation. This is supposed to help make sure the bullet is seated straight.

 

[anachronism]

Most carbide sizing dies leave the sized case grossly undersized. Then the next step is to expand the case mouth do the bullet will start in the case. Then we force an even larger bullet into the case mouth, and the cases end up with an hourglass shape. Old style steel dies are larger, and even slightly tapered to the case mouth. But they do require lubrication before sizing, and most people don't want to do that. I do feel that steel dies produce better quality ammo, but most guys are in a hurry to see how many rounds they can crank out in an hour on their progressive presses so they can do other things.

 

[stevemb]

In the "learn something new every day" category, Thanks Jimbo. I'd never heard of half seating the bullet, giving the cartridge a half turn, and then finishing seating, before. I haven't had issues, so have not seeked a solution, but now if I do ? Thanks.

 

[Rick Courtright]

In the "learn something new every day" category, Thanks Jimbo. I'd never heard of half seating the bullet, giving the cartridge a half turn, and then finishing seating, before. I haven't had issues, so have not seeked a solution, but now if I do ? Thanks.

Hi,

Steve, that's one of those "old tricks" that's been around for who knows how long, seems to get "lost" for a while, then comes out of the closet again! Thanks to Jimbo for bringing it out here. It's sometimes recommended for sizing, too--I think Lee even mentions it in the instructions for their collet rifle resizing dies.

Back to the flaring situation, I've managed to solve the bulge problem for myself with a touch of extra flaring combined with proper bullet sizing. But another thing I've noticed with some loaders is they use the handle on their press as if it's a hammer: no "finesse" involved, they just slam the handle down. That won't always allow the bullet to self center even in a properly flared cased. In both sizing and seating, the brass has to "go somewhere" ahead of the sizer/bullet, which takes time (not much, but SOME!) so a smooth even stroke can help with both operations.

How many times have you heard that "such and such" a press isn't strong enough to size a .44 Mag or a .30-06 or something similar? Once they've slowed down just a touch, I've seen a few people be amazed at how well things work when they're not trying to jam everything into place!

Rick C

 

[johndm1967]

Thanks for some great advice, and things to check.
I'm using a Lee Turret press, does look like the shell holder and dies are out of line, cases seem to have to tip slightly to go into sizer, etc. I'll try to adjust that per Lee instructions. Will also try that "seat half, rotate, seat other half" method and put a little more bell on case. Will start paying more attention to smoothness of stroke as well.

 

[WIL TERRY]

ACTUALLY, the bulge you see is a GOOD thing as it is proof positive that bullet will NEVER be deep seated by the action of the pistol stuffing it into the chamber.
It is caused by the case being slightly oversized smaller that really nessessary, but still it is darned importent. The factories do it to all their revolver cartridges but cover it up most skillfully by slightly bottlenecking the brass and underexpanding ever-so-slightly before seating the projectile. They're even trickier with autoloading pistol cartridges, guys !!! SOME of this would astound you !!!

 

[johndm1967]

I'm getting the bulge unevenly, about half way around both 9mm and 45ACP cases. Loading some Berry's 147gr RN today, having trouble adjusting Lee Turret press to correct for slight misalignment of shellholder to dies. Any tips?

 

[Cheesewhiz]

I don't own a Lee press but I did find some what appears to be decent videos on alignment of a Lee 4 holer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyyPw2_Ct3s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9iPthaYPh4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rohvu9o-ufc

I hope that it helps.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I'm getting the bulge unevenly, about half way around both 9mm and 45ACP cases. Loading some Berry's 147gr RN today, having trouble adjusting Lee Turret press to correct for slight misalignment of shellholder to dies. Any tips?

Hi,

What works for me, using Lee dies (others should work in a similar fashion):

For your sizing die, and the Lee FCD if you use one, raise the ram to the top, screw the die down to touch the shellholder, lower the ram a bit and screw it in another 1/4 turn, then raise the ram again to hold the die tight and square in the threads as you tighten the shellholder.

For the flaring die and seating/crimp dies which don't touch the shellholder, place a small block of wood to place on top of the shellholder and raise the ram to hold that block tight against the die to hold the die square as you tighten the lock nut.

Always recheck your results after doing this. Sometimes there's more slop in one die's threads than another, or the threads in one press vs another, and the adjustment must be fine tuned.

Rick C

 

[johndm1967]

Got the problem licked. Had to adjust turret a little to line up seating die a bit better and increased belling just a hair. Also modified my technique of placing bullet in case, instead of just setting it on case I push it firmly into case. What little bulge is created now is uniform around the case. Thanks for some excellent advice!