Single ten help please. Pictures added.

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roylt

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Sep 21, 2010
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This is a used gun so not sure on history but noticed that with gate open rotating the cyl it sort of binds a bit in one spot. The only thing I can think of is the pawl is hanging on the star part of the cyl. I sanded a couple burrs etc on the star part but it didn't seem to do much. I didn't want to mess it up worse so figured I'd ask here.

Thanks, And I know I should have took pictures but forgot. Can maybe post some tomorrow.
 

PriseDeFer

Single-Sixer
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Apr 22, 2014
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Bind or just drag a little? How does it shoot? Is the cocking effort consistent all the way around?
 

roylt

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Hard to describe but bind and drag when spinning slow by hand. Like when loading or unloading. This is just at the bench. I have not fired it yet, just bought it. Plan to go to the range today.

Cocking it seems to work ok. But the hammer is a big lever to force by any binding that may be there.

Thanks,
 

PriseDeFer

Single-Sixer
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Apr 22, 2014
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I don't have a single ten but on the Vaquero I do have there is the little plunger thingy that contacts the cylinder ratchet to prevent the cylinder from moving backwards when the loading gate is open. So when you rotated the cylinder with the loading gate open what you felt may be normal and OK.
Just to be sure I would look at the side of the cylinder while you turn it, try to see if the gaps between the front of the cylinder and the barrel and the back of the cylinder and the frame are there for the full turn.
 

roylt

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I think it is rubbibg on the back the front if fine as I could see light. Going to shoot it over lunch.

I did take it all apart and check for burrs here and there cleaning up a few spots but didn't notice anything weird with the pawl spring or pawl.

Thanks,
 

roylt

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First ten rounds the hammer sort of stuck for a second but I was able to wiggle it and make it work. Just in the one spot. Something with the pawl I think.
 

G2

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What you describe sounds like the bolt/cylinder latch is not retracting all the way. Take out the cylinder and check that it is level or lower than the cylinder frame.

Previous owner could have got a little aggressive with the loading gate spring and lowered the tip too much, thus when the loading gate it open it allows the bolt to stand proud and drag. It's not much but it doesn't take much.

There is a easy fix if this is indeed the problem.

You think it might be the pawl, check to see if the pawl spring and plunger assembly are in correct, plunger in first followed by the spring.
 

Hondo44

Hawkeye
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Apr 3, 2009
Messages
7,716
Good advice from G2.

If that's not it, while apart to check the pawl spring for being in backwards, take out the pawl to eliminate that as a factor and then spin the cyl.

MY SHORTCUT FOR REMOVING JUST HAMMER and/or PAWL:
Recognize, you do not need to hassle with the PESKY LOADING GATE SPRING, pull the trigger pin, OR trigger/transfer bar JUST to remove the hammer and pawl. Once you remove the grip frame, the hammer pin is the only other part you need to remove. After that, just pull the hammer back and all the way down, then depress the hammer plunger in the base of the hammer with a small tipped screwdriver to clear the trigger extension where the transfer bar connects to it. Let the hammer & pawl fall out. Reinstall the hammer and pawl back in the same way they came out. Push the plunger in by pushing it against the trigger extension just like you did with the tip of the small screwdriver, and the hammer will slip by the extension. Piece o’ cake.

NOTE: While you have the grip frame off, it's always good to examine the upper end of all the grip frame blind screw holes for thread shavings that weren't cleaned out from the factory and get crammed in there by the screws.

Also check the two trigger guard screw holes where they are exposed by the milling cut if your grip frame has the two projections that go into the main frame (the New Vaquero and New FT BH guns no longer have these projections and milling cuts). Almost always there will be a huge flat 'roll-over’ burr in each hole from the milling cuts that expose the holes. If they are present they generally cause the 1st 1/8" of removing those two screws to take extra effort to unscrew. You'll need to break off the burrs and pick them out with a dental pick or equivalent tool.

TIPS FOR INSTALLING GRIP FRAMES:
Install all five screws but do not cinch them tight. Align the grip frame edges flush with the cyl frame by tapping with the butt of a plastic handled screw driver. Tighten one trigger guard screw, then front screw and then one ear screw. Then tighten them all. Check for ease of hammer movement to be sure it's not rubbing on grip frame ears.
 

roylt

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Not following the loading gate / cyl latch issue 100% but I can take the cyl out and see if it is flush or lower for sure. As for the pawl spring I put that in myself and it is correct.
 

roylt

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Hey Jim,
About your hammer only deal. I was putting this back together and testing a few things and had the trigger pinned in place and then wanted to install the bisley hammer and I could not get the pawl / hammer to go in past the trigger?? I took the trigger back out and then put it all back together.

I'll have to see when I can get time. I have the kids for the next couple weeks and then Ex gets another visit so may have to wait.

I still think it has to do with the pawl and the star part on the cylinder.

Is there anything to look at that would give me a clue if it was the star part?
 

Hondo44

Hawkeye
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The hammer goes in the same way it came out. Reinstall the hammer and pawl back in the same way they came out. Push the plunger in by pushing it against the trigger extension just like you did with the tip of the small screwdriver, and the hammer will slip by the extension. Thx, I'll add that to my tutorial above.

The cyl latch must go all the way down flush with the frame when the loading gate is opened. If it doesn't, it will drag on the cyl.

I have never seen a problem with the cyl star!

If the cyl doesn't drag with the pawl out, the pawl is the problem. Round off the right hand edges and knock off the right hand corners of both the upper and lower 'teeth'.
 

roylt

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Hi Jim,
I took it apart by removing everything to clean it up etc and I also wanted to mod the loading gate where your thumb goes in to open it. concave vs convex. So I didn't use the hammer trick to get it out. But going in I just could not get the pawl and hammer to fit past the trigger. I have used your trick before so I think I was trying it right. It just wouldn't work.

So this morning after getting breakfast for the kids I popped down to my shop and took a few pics of the cyl and gun. Most came out bad because I was trying to get closeups and it didn't focus right. Was in a hurry to get to work etc.

Any way here are some pictures for your review. Thanks in advance.

Front of cyl shows no drag marks.


Rear of cyl, star part. Look OK??


Rear of frame with gate open. Everything seems fine to me. I think there may be a slight rub on the pointed corner where the gate closes against. goldish color can be seen from the case of the rounds rubbing but seems so minor to me I almost dismiss it.


Rear of frame with gate closed and hammer cocked so you can get a better look at the pawl.


So what do you think? Or need more pictures? I plan to shoot it again hopefully soon.
 

G2

Hunter
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
2,168
First off, your pictures when clicked on to make them big enough to see, open up a link that my computer shuts down, virus.

It appears the bolt is below the cylinder frame window when the gate is open so not the drag point.

Next item I would check is the hammer plunger, moving in & out smoothly? Possible it might be bent. Take it and the spring out, clean and deburr the hole, need to make sure its operating smooooothly.

My next check would be the transfer bar.

The star has some weird little burrs, this can and should be cleaned up, get too aggressive, not a good thing.

Keep in mind I/we have no idea of your understanding, knowledge, ability to perform some of these operations, while they seem easy to some, they are impossible to others. Internet gunsmithing at its best... :wink:
 

roylt

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Weird about the pictures?
Does this do anything?
http://postimg.org/image/csnw34711/

As for the smithing I tread lightly. New to revolvers but not afraid to try as long as I understand what I am being told.

Appreciate the pointers. I'll try to get a better picture of the star part too at some point.
 

Hondo44

Hawkeye
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Apr 3, 2009
Messages
7,716
1.) What did you find out when you did this? "If the cyl doesn't drag with the pawl out, the pawl is the problem."

2.) I forgot that the single ten pawl is shaped differently from the 2nd tooth down, but anyway that's out of the equation when the hammer is down and the loading gate is opened. So it's only the top tooth right corner and vertical edge that we need to worry about. And I do see a shiny spot on that edge in your photo.

But I still wouldn't do anything until you confirm #1 above.
 

roylt

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Sep 21, 2010
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I'm a single Dad so time is limited. I have not taken it apart again. I did try to look again and dry fire some. Just cocking and lowering the hammer everything seemed pretty loose but dry firing the hammer would get hard to cock / stick a little / jam in the down or fired position. To be clear it seemed to only do the "jam" on a few chambers not all ten.

Thanks guys for helping. I'll post some more pictures tomorrow from work and take it apart sometime but not sure when. Kids first, toys second.

I will get this figured out just may take a month. haha
 

PriseDeFer

Single-Sixer
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Apr 22, 2014
Messages
425
"...to be clear it seemed to only do the "jam" on a few chambers..."
Mark those chambers. Same ones every time?
 

roylt

Hunter
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The front of the cyl is marked with the serial number and yes the same cyl every time. That is why I think it is the star / pawl deal not meshing right.

Here are some more pics of the star part.






 

PriseDeFer

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
425
Maybe blacken the cylinder front and back faces, blacken the back face of the barrel and blacken the recoil shield. Orient the cylinder so that a good chamber will be under the hammer and install the cylinder and base pin. Dry fire but don't drop the hammer on the bad place. Remove cylinder, check for shiny silver where it should not be. Reblacken and install the cylinder so the bad place is up next and cock and dry fire. Repeat a few times and check for shiny silver where it should not be.
This is what I would do and if this did not make a light go on in my head the gun would go to someone with a better head.
 

Hondo44

Hawkeye
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Apr 3, 2009
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In the 4th photo I see what appear to be rub marks at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock.
 

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