Single seven fixes

[sdown356]

So what should I do to get my single seven fixed... My local gunsmith or back to Ruger?
1. the cartridge will not slide into the cylinder when it is registered... The cylinder has to be tweaked-off-of-register for the cartridge slide in.
2. The Notch in the frame to hold the cylinder pin in is cut too shallow and the cylinder pin always backs out under recoil.
3. The face of the barrel is not cut square and the cylinder gap is between .004 and .006. I'd like to get that squared up.

 

[dixie884]

Send it to Ruger. Mine wouldn't load. Ruger sent UPS they took it and returned it to my door in 10 days. It clicks into place and loads perfectly, no charge.....

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

What dixie884 said + 1

 

[Hondo44]

Definitely what Dixie and Chuck said. Call 1st and you'll get the free shipping pick up tag for FedEx, no question. You'll have it back in two weeks. It will be taken care of. Some of the early production, mostly 5 1/2" Single Sevens had suffered these common problems and Ruger is very aware of it.

After investigating these legitimate experiences and complaints, I evaluate the Single Seven (S7) issues as follows:

RUGER'S DESIGN:

1. The S7 was not designed specifically for the cylinder to click and register the chambers with the loading gate trough because of these Mechanical realities:

The S7 does not have Ruger's latest engineering development, the "INDEXING PAWL SYSTEM" which is only installed in the New Vaqueros and the New FT Blackhawks.

The S7 and any New Models do not require the hammer to be on the 1/2 cock notch like the old models which does properly position the pawl and therefore cylinder chambers to align with the loading trough like the traditional SA design.

2. However, in the S7 the 7 chamber spacing, instead of 6, due strictly to happenstance, WILL click and align IF the loading trough is correctly machined.

3. Due to the size of the cartridge vs. the small frame size, machining tolerance of the loading trough is much more critical for proper chamber alignment/loading.


CONCLUSIONS:

My conclusions are that Ruger's S7, especially with early S7 production, can have two separate and distinct Loading/unloading problems:

1. The loading trough machining inaccuracy on many S7s can lack in both depth and/or width of the proper side of the trough causing the following:

cartridges can be loaded but chambers do not click and align with the trough as they could, not should, but could.
loading of cartridges is too snug to be user friendly,
and cartridges cannot be loaded at all thru the trough.

2. There’s a separate problem, Cylinder chambers can be so undersized to the point that cartridges will not fit in them at all even if they will align thru the loading trough, or even with the cyl removed from the gun.

Assessment of the situation: all of the above can be and has been fixed as experienced by those owners that have sent the S7s back.

FAQ:

Should owners have to send brand new guns back? No, of course not.
Is the issue exasperated by Ruger's decision due to market demand, to supply a revised product not originally intended in the initial design of the single six? I would say so.
Can Ruger overcome the issue? Yes, they have as later S7 production and free repairs have exhibited.

 

[sdown356]

Thanks for all of your comments....I'll be sending my S7 back to Ruger.

 

[RLM-BHM]

I'm have the same problem with my Single Seven and called Ruger's customer support today. Guess what they said?? "It's designed that way not a flaw". She also said that the new Vaquero have the same design. She said that "you are not suppose to register the cylinder but are suppose to load it (slide the bullet) before it registers".. She even asked her supervisor and he said the same thing!!!
So, good luck and if you get a different answer from them please let us know and who you talked to.
This does not sit well with me that Ruger would manufacture a product that is definitely not correct and say it is designed that way.. No more Rugers for me!!!

 

[Hondo44]

RLM-BHM,

You were told wrong! Not uncommon for Ruger reps who do not know their own product. From my post above:

"1. The S7 was not designed specifically for the cylinder to click and register the chambers with the loading gate trough because of these Mechanical realities:

The S7 DOES NOT HAVE Ruger's latest engineering development, the "INDEXING PAWL SYSTEM" which is only installed in the New Vaqueros and the New FT Blackhawks.

2. However, in the S7 the 7 chamber spacing, instead of 6, due strictly to happenstance, WILL click and align IF the loading trough is correctly machined."

Call again and hope you get someone else. Guns that have gone back to Ruger will load when it registers.
Or better yet, just take a Dremel tool with a 3/8" grinding stone and open up the side of the loading trough a little bit on the side of the trough that prevents it from loading at the click. Use a polishing bit next and your done. 5 minute job and you won't be without your gun for two weeks. Just take the cylinder out and tape over openings to keep the grit out of your gun.

 

[pjkid]

Related Question for those that have had Ruger issues like OP. I do not have a problem, just asking "What If"

Is there an advantage to using a LGS (dealer of purchase) for quality issues rather than dealing directly with Ruger service as an individual owner??
What would you do?

Thanks

 

[Hondo44]

pjkid,

I wouldn't. I don't like bothering my dealer with factory problems. Unless I find a problem on a new gun that I haven't purchased from him yet. then it would be his responsibility to return it to his jobber.

And it just adds a middleman and delays. If you send it, you will get the confirmation that Ruger received it and the call when it's ready to be returned and it'll be delivered directly to your home.

 

[pjkid]

Thanks

 

[toroflow]

What about this problem?
2. The Notch in the frame to hold the cylinder pin in is cut too shallow and the cylinder pin always backs out under recoil.

 

[Hondo44]

Once the pin is in place, does the button stick out the left side of the frame the same amount as when the pin is out? If not, that's a different problem requiring the cannalure in the pin to be deepened.

If the button does stick out the same amount, I would compare it to another Ruger, if you have one. If it doesn't stick out as much, then I would deepen the hole SLIGHTLY in the right side of the frame. Once you determine the size drill bit, grind it flat on the tip so you drill a square bottomed hole.

Hope that helps and let us know what you find,

 

[rdf009]

Too bad to hear about these problems with the Single Sevens. I shyed away from the distributor exclusive Ruger revolvers for a couple years after I ordered a couple Talo Single Sixes that both needed to go right back to the factory after delivery. Seems like they have had trouble with some of the special runs.....maybe it's because there's so much demand for them at first, and they're just pumping them out as quick as they can.

I considered ordering a few Single Sevens when they first came out, but at that point Lipsey's had them allocated to the larger dealers, which I am not. By the time they became available to all dealers I had lost interest.

I did order two of the Lipsey's 3.75" Bisley Super Blackhawks a couple weeks ago, and both were BEAUTIFUL guns with no flaws to mention. It sort of renewed my confidence in the quality of the limited production Ruger revolvers, but now that I hear about the Single Seven problems I'm a little concerned again. Hopefully it's just an isolated issue.

But whatever the case, I'm sure they'll take care of it for you....I've never had a problem with their customer service. When there are quality control issues, the customer service NEEDS to be good.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

I currently own Single Sevens in 4 5/8"and 7 1/2" and have had zero issues with either. I called my dealer today and ordered the 5 1/2" to make the set complete.
The things I do to every Ruger single action I buy before I go to the range for the first time........
1- remove the grip frame and clean and lube the works.
2- replace the trigger spring with a Wolf 30 oz. spring.
3- replace the base pin latch spring with a Wolf extra power spring.
4- tap the rear sight mounting pin out to the right about 1/4"'bend it slightly and apply a very small amount of Loc-Tite and re seat the pin.
Doing these four things will cover most of the complaints from new Ruger buyers.

 

[sdown356]

I'm going to make my cylinder free wheeling to get around the cartridge feeding problem. I'll try the wolf spring on the base pin latch. I have a belt mountain pin installed but the recoil can still move the pin out.

 

[Hondo44]

With three legitimate complaints like you have, I would call for the free shipping label and send it back to Ruger on their dime. You just pack it up and drop off at a Fed Ex. You'll have it back in 2 weeks and all the ones I've heard of fixed by Ruger do align if the cyl is registered, when the gun comes back. You can still free wheel the cyl, later, I also like that modification.

 

[dixie884]

I had Ruger send UPS for mine picked it up and delivered it back to my house 10 days. No charge..........

 

[32shooter]

Anyone else seeing this on a Single Seven?? Appears to be tooling marks on the cylinder. Very difficult to get clean. Also have the base pin loosening up and the alignment issue when loading, the rear sight pin was protruding out the one side which I corrected and then today I was out in the backyard testing some loads and I caught a glimpse of something fly off of the gun, looked down and the ejector rod, housing, spring and screw were gone. I did locate everything but the screw(not easy in 6" of snow). I think I will be giving Ruger a call Monday and give them a shot at correcting.

 

[Hondo44]

You certainly have justification to send it back, but if it were mine I wouldn't. All too easy to fix.

I always tear down a new gun before shooting; clean out the burrs, adjust springs if needed, check internal parts and cinch all the screws. Saves a lot of headaches.

Ruger will send you a free screw.
The cyl pin cannelure is likely not deep enough.
Easy to polish the cylinder.
Five minutes with a Dremel if one has the skill, will align the chamber with loading trough when the pawl clicks with a matching diameter grinding wheel, 1/2" long, and polishing wheel. I fixed another one last night.

Otherwise call for a prepaid shipping label.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

From Your picture I assume the marks at he arrows are the carbon fowling I clean off of mine every time I come home from the range. A can of Nevr-Dull , found at auto parts and even Wall Mart, will do a good job of removing it.
I always check all screws for tightness before firing a new gun. How about you?
I also tap the sight pin out to the right side about 1/4" and bend it slightly with a pilar,put a tiny drop of Loc-Tite on the pin and drive it back in. It will stay put after doing that.

 

[32shooter]

Carbon fouling is one thing - this carbon requires scrubbing with steel wool to remove. Cylinder not smooth. Why should I have to check screws on a new gun? Do you check bolts on a new car?? I own a lot of Rugers and I have not had any issues with any of them up to this point. Yes, they are not major issues but when buying a new gun I would expect better. Why should I have to make repairs to a new gun? From what I have heard they will fix. Will see.

 

[dixie884]

On my 4 5/8" specimen It was so out of time the ejector rod would not enter the cylinder after the click and then hung up when stroked. I used a dremmel as well as sand paper on my loading slot. Before I achieved clearance, I had an opening into the transfer slot. I then opened it up so that I had plenty of room and thinned the ejector rod as well. Meanwhile, I have lost a good bit of resale value as there is no way to replace metal. When my 7 1/2" was bad I sent it to Ruger. No loss in resale value, no sweat. My two early 5 1/2" were perfect, as was my 2nd 7 1/2" model. This is a new innovative version of the SS frame. Some growing pains are normal, meanwhile Ruger has done a good job of fixing the ones sent back. I am very glad that Ruger and Lipseys went out on a limb to make this model. It is a real GEE-WHIZ deal. See below..........

 

[Hondo44]

dixie884,

The loading trough should only be opened up on one side for clearance to align with the chambers for loading/unloading. The depth of the trough is adequate and should never be deepened for the reason that you discovered.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

32shooter,cars are not my hobby,guns are and yes I am pretty anal about checking every screw and I remove the grip frame from all new Ruger SA's I buy(50 + in my collection at this point) and clean the internals and check everything.
Basically, I consider any revolver that costs less than 1K a work in progress and if I find everything in order, all the better. Let's go shooting friend!

 

[32shooter]

Chuck, I guess I am a little bit different than you. I buy a new gun, give it a cleaning, but not tearing it down to clean. And then I start shooting. I guess if I buy a NEW gun I except things to be in working order. I am still giving the little Ruger a workout minus the ejector rod. Have been working on some powder coated 117gr loads, 7625 looks good so far. Good idea, lets get shooting!!

 

[sdown356]

Dixie... It sounds like that Ruger replaced your returned 7 1/2 inch S7 for a new one, is that correct? ...they didn't repair and return to you your original gun, right?

 

[Hondo44]

Dixie... It sounds like that Ruger replaced your returned 7 1/2 inch S7 for a new one, is that correct? ...they didn't repair and return to you your original gun, right?

Dixie may respond for himself but I sure didn't read what he posted to mean that: "When my 7 1/2" was bad I sent it to Ruger. No loss in resale value, no sweat."

I read it to mean that when Ruger fixed his 7 1/2" S7, they didn't grind thru into the transfer bar channel therefore there will be no loss in value if he resold it.

 

[dixie884]

I'm sure the assemblers just weren't aware of the clearances. Someone called it tolerance stacking. The 7 1/2 " was new, I returned it to Ruger, untouched. They adjusted the amount of rotation so that the cylinder indexed earlier, which made it click into proper relation to the loading slot. It seems perfectly aligned. The 4 5/8 that I boogered up is, of course on me. I couldn't shoot it as it was and I badly wanted to shoot it so I did whatever it took to get instant gratification. I definitely lost resale value but some one else will have to worry about that. I'm pretty happy with it like it is and there is now plenty of room. I probably will keep it til I don't need it. Meanwhile a new gun with a problem is best sent back for a free repair and free shipping. Great warranty service, I give it an A+++.

 

[sdown356]

Dixie one last question .... Were you having trouble with the cylinder pin backing out under recoil?.... if you were having that problem did you ask Ruger to fix it?

 

[32shooter]

Dixie one last question .... Were you having trouble with the cylinder pin backing out under recoil?.... if you were having that problem did you ask Ruger to fix it?

I don't know about Dixie, but I spoke to a gentleman at Ruger this afternoon about my cylinder pin backing out and he said that they would have to have it back to repair it. He e-mailed me a pre-paid return label, so mine will be going back as soon as I can get it boxed up and off to UPS.