Shooting in Belgium

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areslagae

Bearcat
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
34
City & State/Province
Europe
Hi all,

I am a new member. Someone from this forum asked me that I did a post about shooting in Belgium. So here it is:

Belgium is a small country (about 30.000 square km and 11 million inhabitants) in Western Europe. It is bordered by The Netherlands in the North, Germany and Luxembourg in the East, France in the South, and the United Kingdom in the North-East across the North Sea. It consists of a Dutch-speaking Flemish community in the North, to which I belong, and a French-speaking Walloon community in the South. Belgium is world-famous for its many beers, its fine chocolate, its Brussels waffles, and its "French" fries (and, since yesterday, for defeating the USA in the 2014 FIFA World Cup Brazil). It is also the home of Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal (FN) which had a long-lasting relationship with the famous John Moses Browning. Overall, Belgium is a great place to live.

The firearm laws in Belgium are pretty strict. (The following is a simplification, since the laws are quite complex.) The basic principle is that in order to be allowed to own a firearm a valid reason is needed, which can either be sport shooting, hunting or collecting. A separate firearms permit is required for every firearm (the application costs 100 EUR and approval can take up to four months). Next to permits for individual firearms there are also sport shooting and hunting licences, that allow the holder to purchase some firearms (most firearms except centerfire handguns and semi-automatic rifles which are still subject to an individual permit), and collector recognitions, that allow the holder to purchase any firearm that fits within the theme of the collection (e.g. “firearms used in World War II”). All licences, recognitions and permits are only issued after a careful investigation (criminal records, medical, ...). All firearms are registered. An important aspect of our firearm laws is that the holder of a permit, license or recognition must regularly prove that the reason is still valid. For example, sport shooters must prove at least 12 shooting sessions a year. Also, the use of firearms must be in accordance with the reason. For example, with a hunting license you can only acquire firearms that are legally allowed to hunt with, and a collector cannot shoot with collected firearms. Automatic firearms are prohibited except for collectors. It is next to impossible to get a firearms permit for personal protection or to get a carry license (both exist but are only issued under exceptional circumstances). These laws are more or less representative for Europe. Although they are strict, things could be worse. For example, in the United Kingdom handguns are banned, and in the Netherlands there is a limit of 5 firearms.

Despite the strict firearms laws, Belgium has a small but active shooting community. There are roughly 400.000 legal firearms owners (out of 11 million, roughly 1 in 27 inhabitants), and there are roughly 750.000 registered firearms (roughly 7 per 100 inhabitants). We mainly shoot in indoor ranges (most ranges have 25 m lanes, sometimes accompanied with 50 m .22LR lanes), but there are also a few ranges with 100 m lanes, shooting clubs that offer IPSC, and outdoor clay shooting.

The firearms market in Belgium is highly dependent on the USA, although we have some well-known brands in Europe as well (e.g. Glock, CZ and Walther firearms, and Sellier & Bellot, Fiocchi and Geco ammunition).

If you want to known anything about Belgium or shooting in Belgium, let me know!
 
Thanks for the information. I spent my high school years at SHAPE near Mons, Belgium until 1981. It's a great country with wonderful people.
 
Hey how it going? The laws sound a lot like they are In Bulgaria. Lots of restrictions and the police actually come to your house to make sure you have a locked safe for storage etc.

Can you reload your own ammunition? Are there laws about how much ammunition you can own at any given time?

I've been. To Belgium a couple times. It is very pretty Countryside. And simply incredible french fries. Served in paper with mayonnaise. They are worth the price of a plane ticket. But don't your restaurants close early. O e guide book I have says something about being as available as a Belgium restaurant owner..
 
Very interesting to read, sorry to hear your not a free man with given god given rights when it comes to firearms, the socialist Democratic party in our country is sure trying hard to take away our freedom.
 
The only connection I can make is that FN has a factory here in S.C. making M-4s for our military.
Click to expand...

FN was kind enough to allow me to bring my officers through their factory on a tour in '00/'01 as part of their professional development when I was a Sq/CC at Charleston AFB. In addition to the M-4, they let us handle a shortened version of the M-240 they were developing. Nice folks.
 
6gun said:
Very interesting to read, sorry to hear your not a free man with given god given rights when it comes to firearms...
Click to expand...
Huh?? When did God give us the right to own a firearm? I thought it was the 2nd amendment to our constitution that did that. :shock:
 
For Jimbo's information since his South Florida education SEEMS to be lacking; The Second Amendment and as far as that goes, the whole FIRST Ten ONLY enumerate GOD GIVEN rights; NOT ones granted by the document and without the Second you'd have a hard time making SURE you get to enjoy the Other NINE.
 
Jimbo357mag said:
6gun said:
Very interesting to read, sorry to hear your not a free man with given god given rights when it comes to firearms...
Click to expand...
Huh?? When did God give us the right to own a firearm? I thought it was the 2nd amendment to our constitution that did that. :shock:
Click to expand...

Jimbo. Your kidding right?
 
areslagae -

Thank you for your clear explanation of firearms and the shooting sports in Belgium, and welcome to the Ruger Forum.

I'm sure that there are many of us who would love to take you shooting, should your travels ever bring you to the U.S.A.

Count me as one of them.

Many of us here are learning that we cannot take our right to "keep and bear arms" (as our Constitution states) for granted, because there are many who would like to deprive us of our ability to defend ourselves and to freely exercise our God-given rights, which are merely codified in our Constitution.

In addition, the violent crime rate in the U.S. has fallen dramatically in the past 40 years, during a period in which legal gun ownership has become much more prevalent.

So the theory that "more guns = more crime" is completely erroneous.

You'll please pardon some of us who take a fellow Ruger Forum member to task for his incomplete knowledge of our history and the origins of our Constitution.

The member in question claims to support gun rights, yet, in actuality, he supports politicians of a political party who strive to deny Americans these basic rights because of a political agenda.

We're airing some of our "dirty laundry," if you understand that expression.

Again, welcome to the Ruger Forum - it's a pleasure to hear from you.

All the best -

Montelores (in southwest Colorado - the "Four Corners" region)
 
Thanks for the warm welcome!

Kevin: The police indeed checks storage requirements (a gun safe is required starting from 10 firearms). We can handload / reload our own ammunition (but only for own use). We can store ammunition up to 10 kg of powder (about 40K round of 9mm assuming 4 grains). Restaurants do close early, we typically eat around 18, much earlier than in Southern European countries (e.g., France, Spain, ...).

Montelores: During one of the reforms of our consitiion, a clause similar to the 2nd amendment was left out because it was "evident" at the time. Needless to say, it was not put back in later ...
 
Jimbo357mag said:
6gun said:
Very interesting to read, sorry to hear your not a free man with given god given rights when it comes to firearms...
Click to expand...
Huh?? When did God give us the right to own a firearm? I thought it was the 2nd amendment to our constitution that did that. :shock:
Click to expand...

Rights exist on their own, and they existed on their own long before US Constitution existed.
Having any certain Right written into the Law of the Land does not create it, it merely codifieds it.
As for our (US) Constitution, the 2nd is primarily articulating three things;
It states what the Right is....as-in "keep and bear arms".
It states why it is being codified into the Law...as-in it being "necessary".
It tells government to keep it's hands off of it...as-in, that particular Right "shall not be infringed".

Whether or not you believe the first sentance in the above paragraph is a moot point, for the fact remains that the Law of the Land is what it is and say's what it say's......meaning that the Law recognizes that Rights are seperate from government, do not depend on Government, and in the case of the 2nd (specificaly), actualy places that Right above government.

Your turn.

DGW
 
Montelores said:
The member in question claims to support gun rights, yet, in actuality, he supports politicians of a political party who strive to deny Americans these basic rights because of a political agenda.
Click to expand...
...and the republican agenda is to paint all democrats as being opposed to gun ownership and gun rights. That is a sad position as most gun owners are not republicans.

Where our gun rights come from is debatable. I say the US constitution. :shock: :shock:
 
Jimbo357mag said:
Montelores said:
The member in question claims to support gun rights, yet, in actuality, he supports politicians of a political party who strive to deny Americans these basic rights because of a political agenda.
Click to expand...
...and the republican agenda is to paint all democrats as being opposed to gun ownership and gun rights. That is a sad position as most gun owners are not republicans.

Where our gun rights come from is debatable. I say the US constitution. :shock: :shock:
Click to expand...

Your saying most gun owners are not Republicans? lyre, next you will lie and say all the Dims in the senate are fighting against gun control those Republicans keep trying to pass cause they want to ban all guns and are using school children in a attempt to pass gun bans :roll: :roll: where did you come up with this unbelievable whopper of a lie your messiah obummer?
 
...and the republican agenda is to paint all democrats as being opposed to gun ownership and gun rights.
Click to expand...
Sadly, I agree. Our two major political parties live off painting each other as extremists.

That is a sad position as most gun owners are not republicans.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but even fewer are likely to be democrats.

Where our gun rights come from is debatable. I say the US constitution.
Click to expand...
You're incorrect. The Constitution restricts government by recognizing certain existing rights. The Founding Fathers were rightly concerned about a strong Federal government so they attempted to place limits on its reach. From the preamble to the Bill of Rights..." Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added..." They declared, not created, these rights and restricted the Federal government.

Stay with us Jimbo. I get bored listening to people who all think the way I do.
 
Really... I agree with my neighbor Badger Mat,

I do have to say that if we in this country were burdened with the gun laws of Belgium..... a whole lot less folks would be gun owners.... I'm surprised at what I perceive as a pretty high percentage in his country....

The hypocrisy is that many of you folk who acknowledge our God given rights.... seem to think those rights only apply to American Citizens.....
 
"The hypocrisy is that many of you folk who acknowledge our God given rights.... seem to think those rights only apply to American Citizens....."


Well, although we're straying from the OP's thread, maybe I can speak up, since I'm probably one of those "hypocrites" to whom you're referring.

So, should the rights of American citizens apply only to American citizens?

The answer there is obvious - yes.

However, do I believe that the world would be a far better place if the rights we have as Americans were to be available to more people throughout the world?

The answer there is an unequivocal "yes."

Now, I have a sense that maybe you're implying something about immigration, although that's just a guess.

It would seem to me that a "hypocrite" would expect only SOME people to follow the laws.

Do I, as a conservative, want more people to be able to enjoy the greatness of America as citizens of this country?

Absolutely.

Do we, however, have a terribly flawed and broken immigration system which is being manipulated by small groups of people, ultimately

causing MORE suffering and unfairness in the process?

Yes.

And maybe I should also point out the illogic in your statement that any of us could believe that God-given rights do not apply to all of God's children.

I'm sorry if I misunderstand your somewhat cryptic taunt.

Monty

P.S. I'll also point out that my family hails from France and England (primarily).

If the OP is interested, my grandfather and his French artillery company successfully defended a small town in northern France in the Ardennes-Champagne region (which borders Belgium) against the Germans in WWI.

He was awarded the Croix de Guerre.

My father, too young to be drafted in WWII, lied about his age to serve in the American Field Service as an ambulance driver in Europe until he turned 18 and was drafted. But the war ended months later, so he never served in uniform.

P.P.S. Have a wonderful Independence Day!
 
"Stay with us Jimbo. I get bored listening to people who all think the way I do."


I'm not so concerned with how he "thinks."

I am concerned, however, with how he votes.

And the type of government which he and his like-minded ideologues promote.

Just look at the current results.

Not pretty - especially for the poor, the underprivileged, and those in the middle who are trying to better their lives and the lives of their families.

Monty
 
Montelores said:
I'm not so concerned with how he "thinks."

I am concerned, however, with how he votes.

And the type of government which he and his like-minded ideologues promote.
Click to expand...
Why don't you stop with the political attacks against me in the lounge? Twice in one thread is a little much. :(

...all I did was question 'God Given Rights'.

(edit to add) If anyone would like to discuss where our gun rights come from I made another thread in the political section.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=206166
 
blume357 said:
Really... I agree with my neighbor Badger Mat,

I do have to say that if we in this country were burdened with the gun laws of Belgium..... a whole lot less folks would be gun owners.... I'm surprised at what I perceive as a pretty high percentage in his country....

The hypocrisy is that many of you folk who acknowledge our God given rights.... seem to think those rights only apply to American Citizens.....
Click to expand...

And non felons?
 
:D Welcome to the forum! Sorry this got turned into a political rant. Glad to hear some people can still own firearms in Belgium. You can learn a lot on this forum. My brother still owns my Grandfathers Browning shotgun that was made there. Do they still teach the schoolchildren that in WWI their King defied the German Army and declared "Belgium is not a road!"?
Cape Cod Terry :D
 
Jimbo357mag said:
Montelores said:
I'm not so concerned with how he "thinks."

I am concerned, however, with how he votes.

And the type of government which he and his like-minded ideologues promote.
Click to expand...
Why don't you stop with the political attacks against me in the lounge? Twice in one thread is a little much. :(

...all I did was question 'God Given Rights'.
Click to expand...
Jimbo, I thought you were turning the corner?

A fair rebuttal question to you is why don't you stop with the obvious politically nuanced remarks in the lounge? Some of your own comments are inflammatory, and you knew it when you posted them. To act innocent after the fact simply doesn't play, not here in the Lounge, or anywhere else. You willingly jumped into the political aspect of this thread; you have no basis to complain about the reaction(s).

Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.
 
wolfsong said:
Jimbo, I thought you were turning the corner?

A fair rebuttal question to you is why don't you stop with the obvious politically nuanced remarks in the lounge? Some of your own comments are inflammatory, and you knew it when you posted them. To act innocent after the fact simply doesn't play, not here in the Lounge, or anywhere else. You willingly jumped into the political aspect of this thread; you have no basis to complain about the reaction(s).

Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.
Click to expand...
Now you. This was the first political remark.
6gun said:
Very interesting to read, sorry to hear your not a free man with given god given rights when it comes to firearms, the socialist Democratic party in our country is sure trying hard to take away our freedom.
Click to expand...
I said, "Huh?? When did God give us the right to own a firearm? I thought it was the 2nd amendment to our constitution that did that."

I don't think what I said was very confrontational or political at all, just a question. :shock:

(edit to add) If anyone would like to discuss where our gun rights come from I made another thread in the political section.

http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=206166
 
"..and the republican agenda is to paint all democrats as being opposed to gun ownership and gun rights. That is a sad position as most gun owners are not republicans."


Jimbo, please stop with your political attacks in The Lounge.

Monty

P.S. "Where our gun rights come from is debatable. I say the US constitution."

vs.

"I don't think what I said was very confrontational or political at all, just a question."


For your information, a sentence in the form of a question ends with a question mark.
 
Montelores said:
For your information, a sentence in the form of a question ends with a question mark.
Click to expand...
Here you go Motelores. "When did God give us the right to own a firearm?" I believe that was my question for 6gun. Folks should be able to see what happens here. Third time you are posting %$^&*&^ about me. Why don't you stop it. :shock:
 
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