"Shock Stocks"

[joihan777]

Hello,
I'm rather green as far as large bore rifles, I only have a 10/22.

I'm considering a large bore rifle for back-country security, for bears, primarily.

It got me thinking, why are there no shock absorbing stocks? Either using tension rods, leaf springs or springs/dampeners? Might be nice to take some bite out of the recoil.
The tension rod design could certainly fit in just a Shock Stock Recoil Pad.

Here's a quick sketch of my "Shock Stocks" idea:

 

[9x19]

There have been a number of "recoil-reducers" offered over the years.

None gained much popularity with hunters... I think most wonder why add that extra weight in a rifle that is carried alot more than it is actually fired?

 

[mike7mm08]

Real no need for them on hunting rifles. I never feel recoil when shooting at game. Most times I even tune out the sound. A good buttpad and a shoulder pad if needed for range work and your all set. Another issue that could occur with a stock like your thinking is a nasty cut if the gun is scoped.

 

[wunbe]

You mostly need the good recoil pad and sound protection while doing your sight-in work at the range. And do not minmize the need as you can develop a flinch and serious ear damage down the road by going 'he-man' and ignoring these very real concerns.

wunbe

 

[Rumrunner]

The Thompson Center Pro Hunter Encore stock has some recoil reducing flex built into it.

 

[wwb]

There are several "recoil reducing" stocks already on the market, as well as other devices such as the "Dead Mule". They are marketed toward trap, skeet, and sporting clays shotgunners.

As mentioned, a hunting rifle is carried a lot and shot very little. In the shotgun sports, however, the gun is carried a little and shot a LOT. A typical weekend sporting clays tournament will be a 500 bird shoot.

 

[Mike Armstrong]

The difference in felt recoil between sighting in and actually firing at game is a dilemma. I really noticed it when sighting in slug-firing shotguns when I lived in a "shotgun only" county in NYS back in the 80s thru 2006. Even a lightweight 20 guage slug gun (I had a 20 guage Ithaca "Deerslayer") really "backs up in a hurry" with slugs, but you never notice the recoil when shooting at game.

I never really solved this dilemma. Finally discovered my county allowed handguns as well as shotguns for deer (WHY? "Ours not to reason why" when reading County decisions. Maybe one of the supervisors was a handgun hunter....) and switched to a .357, which worked just fine.

One thing I've used with sighting in rifles is a strap-on shoulder pad made for trap shooters. It goes on over the clothing and adds an extra "recoil pad" when shooting trap or sighting in a rifle. Really helps; several mfrs. make them.

You really won't notice rifle or shotgun recoil when shooting at game if you make a habit of mounting the gun so that there is no space between you and it. With a sloppy "mount", you will feel that smack! But I'm sure if you've been shooting a while, you KNOW that.....

 

[SteveRuger]

The Trap & Skeet Shooter have come up with some nice "Shock Absorbers" in the stocks over the years. I have no idea what it is in my Benelli that my wife shoots but the kick is very light. J/S

 

[joihan777]

Thanks everyone!

Whatever large bore "bear defense" rifle I buy, I'll check out these suggestions!

Kinda contemplating a 45-70 or 44 Magnum lever action rifle; both of which have serious recoil.
I might even consider a Browning BAR Safari Autoloading rifle.
I don't see a modern Ruger that I'd be comfortable with. Bolt actions are not for defense. =(
Really hoping Ruger makes an autoloading 'guide' rifle in bear stopper calibers one day!

 

[wwb]

.........
Kinda contemplating a 45-70 or 44 Magnum lever action rifle; both of which have serious recoil......

Unless you found a 1 pound rifle somewhere, the .44 mag is NOT going to have serious recoil. If you anticipate encountering even a moderately good-sized black bear, the .44 mag is on the light side.

The .45-70, in SAAMI loading, is not much better.... but an upgraded .45-70 load in a modern firearm is truly "Big Medicine", and would be all you need for even a big brown bear.

My $0.02 worth.... a lever-action .30-30, unless you live in brown bear country, is the best all-around rifle for what you appear to be seeking.

 

[Tensaw]

Real no need for them on hunting rifles. I never feel recoil when shooting at game. Most times I even tune out the sound. A good buttpad and a shoulder pad if needed for range work and your all set. Another issue that could occur with a stock like your thinking is a nasty cut if the gun is scoped.

What Mike said.

I do wear earplugs when hunting.

 

[RJ556]

If there is a good possibility of big bear encounters, a good rifle to be carrying is one chambered in 9.3x62 Mauser. Try to find a Ruger Hawkeye African in this caliber. It is known to work well on the largest bears and African game. Install a 1" Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad. The recoil is much less than a 375 ouch & ouch and many say it feels less than a 338 Win mag. I have had a 2 level cervical fusion in my neck and the recoil with 286 grain full loads doesn't bother me at all. To me it feels about like shooting 180 grain loads in my 30-06. My 30-06 is a Winchester Featherweight, which is a little over a pound lighter than my African 9.3x62.

 

[SteveRuger]

.........
Kinda contemplating a 45-70 or 44 Magnum lever action rifle; both of which have serious recoil......

Unless you found a 1 pound rifle somewhere, the .44 mag is NOT going to have serious recoil. If you anticipate encountering even a moderately good-sized black bear, the .44 mag is on the light side.

:arrow: Ruger made the 44 Semi Auto ( formally the DEERSTALKER )! Great Gun there is still a few out there you can find them in the classifieds or shoot a 'PM' off to Scott ( Mr Deerstaler ) I am sure he still has a few laying around. :!:
In the book "Ruger & His Guns" there is a great testimonial from Bill Ruger about the 44 Semi Auto strength & durability. J/S

 

[Hauss]

I believe Howa has already incorporated something similar to your design into a few of their rifles. I want to say they use it in their axiom stock.

 

[joihan777]

.........
Kinda contemplating a 45-70 or 44 Magnum lever action rifle; both of which have serious recoil......

Unless you found a 1 pound rifle somewhere, the .44 mag is NOT going to have serious recoil. If you anticipate encountering even a moderately good-sized black bear, the .44 mag is on the light side.

:arrow: Ruger made the 44 Semi Auto ( formally the DEERSTALKER )! Great Gun there is still a few out there you can find them in the classifieds or shoot a 'PM' off to Scott ( Mr Deerstaler ) I am sure he still has a few laying around. :!:
In the book "Ruger & His Guns" there is a great testimonial from Bill Ruger about the 44 Semi Auto strength & durability. J/S

Thanks for the response! It seems the .44 Remington Magnum shoots @ 11 ft/lbs recoil at 10 fps recoil velocity... much less then the 24 ft/lbs-15fps of the 45-70 Gov't or the 33 ft/lbs-15fps of the .338 Winchester Magnum.

Though the 44 Magnum would be minimal for the average Black Bear, it might suit me fine for average bears I've seen, or cougars. I'll buy the .338 if I head to Alaska.

Too bad Ruger doesn't develop a .45 Magnum in a rimless cartridge with just a little more oomph than the .44 but with a case than can be stacked in a linear magazine. Oh well. The way older Deerfield 99/44 are selling, Ruger would likely sell quite a few.

I think I've narrowed my decision a bit; I'm seriously contemplating the 99/44 Deerfield Carbine. It seems exactly what I need, defense from [lower 48] predators & possible hunting. I'm usually hiking with friends and I'd like something easy to handle. It's a plus that I'm very familiar with a 10/22 and the 99/44 feels similar.

Now the hard part will be finding one in non-ridiculous prices! Thanks everyone!!!

 

[SteelShooter]

Rather than the recoil reduction in the stock, you may want to look at one of the newer muzzle breaks that reduce recoil. Some are really ugly but highly effective.

I've shot a 338 Lapua with a Surfire break on it, and it made a huge difference. Uses the same backwards (towards) shooter design that the big brake on the Barrett 50 BMG does. It pushes out a lot of gas and noise, but pulls the gun away from your shoulder.

It works, but is not cheap either!

 

[Kudu m77]

If you are going to carry a rifle I would look elsewhere than .44 Mag in lever. If you are carrying the lever action for defense you might as well carry a compact bolt action (that is probably more reliable than a lever) rifle in a 9,3x62 as mentioned. I have not hunted bear in my life as they do not exist where I am from but I would rather have a slighty misplaced shot on a bear with a 9,3/30-06/338/375 ect. than a .44 Mag. If it was purely for 'maybe if one day' and I needed something compact that is not as bulky as a rifle I would get a .44 Mag or 454 Casull in a revolver. IF you are set on a rifle I too would suggest a well designed muzzle break as mentioned above.

Pieter

 

[DGW1949]

From the FWIW Dept;

A factory 240/44Mag has close to the same recoil-energy as an '06 rifle cartridge, which may be more than you're prepaired for....especialy when fired from a lightweight levergun. That said though, a 44Mag aint nearly as brutal as a 45/70.

Someone mentioned that leverguns are slow to use. That has not been my experience at all.
Fact is, when we're talking putting hits on multiple targets during timed events, a well-skilled levergun shooter can/will outshoot most semi-auto shooters. Trick is though, you gotta be well-skilled...AND....have a levergun that can run as fast as it can be operated. Most "out of the box" leverguns are not capable of being run that fast, so if that's the goal, be prepaired to spend some bucks "after the sale".

Bears?....can't help you much there 'cuase I've never hunted bears. On the other hand, I'm perty-sure that they aint bullet proof.
Lots of bears get kilt every year with a 30-30, so I doubt that you'll be needing an elephant-gun for any of 'em. Besides that, if the gun you choose cost too much to shoot often, or kicks so bad that you hate firing the thing, how the heck are you going to become proficent with it?.....just sayin'.

DGW

 

[joihan777]

Thanks for the advice.
Mainly, I want a smallish carbine that can be brought to position quickly and can dispatch a black bear or a deer. It must also be appropriate for all-around defense.

The Deerfield 99/44 seems like the best fit. Being of similar feel as a 10/22 is a plus for me. From reading these responses and other forums, articles and several technical articles; it seems the 99/44 recoil is definitely manageable. When I finally do buy one, I plan on putting several hundred rounds through it!

 

[SteelShooter]

You could take a completely different track and pick up something like a 458 SOCOM or equivalent. The 300-grain round offers a muzzle velocity 1,900 ft/s and 2,405 ft·lbf or energy, step down to the 250 grain, and you are almost at 3,000 ftlbs of energy from a large diameter bullet.

If you wanted to stay "Ruger" you could mount ne of these uppers on a Ruger SR-556 lower and have 2 guns to play with.

Other option is the 50 Beowulf, which is similar to the 500 S&W round and is supposed to have similar ballistics to the 45/70