Security Six experts and collectors

[magnum0710]

I was recently approached to write an article on the Six series double action revolvers and was wondering if anyone had any interesting articles, interviews, etc I could use as sources?

I'm planning to include some rare and odd models so I might ask a few of you guys for pics if you're ok with it. Anyone who contributes will get credit. Right now I need a picture of a 6 inch stainless lowback Security Six. I need the original JPG files if possible for pictures.

My goal is to separate truth from legend and clear up some misinformation as well. While doing research I've found some articles that had really good info that I needed but the author would get other things wrong. I'm open to ideas and suggestions too, if theres something that you think needs to be touched on or cleared up just let me know. I know there is way too much to fit into a single piece and I've been given the ok to make it a multi part, it will probably be at least 3 if not 4 parts but could go further. I'm considering doing one part dedicated just to rare and odd models but I may just go over them in the main Security, Speed and Service sections.

Right now I'm working on the early history, I know there are a few examples that will factory letter as having shipped prior to 1972 so if anyone has an early model that dates back further or has any information that would be great. I know production was officially from 1972-1988 but I'd like to get more information on the development and things like that.

If you have any little known information about rare or odd models or any kind of information that isn't generally known I'd appreciate it. For example if you know details about certain contract models and how the contract came about that would be a big help. I signed up for RENE so I should have my reference guide soon which is sure to help a ton.

 

[hittman]

Which outlet is going to publish the article?

 

[magnum0710]

Which outlet is going to publish the article?

Revolverguy.com

 

[contender]

RoninPa would be the person to help you. Plus,, weaselmeatgravy is a wealth of knowledge about them as well. And if he sees this post,, TerryT is also a very good source if info.
Maybe PM those 3 people?

 

[magnum0710]

RoninPa would be the person to help you. Plus,, weaselmeatgravy is a wealth of knowledge about them as well. And if he sees this post,, TerryT is also a very good source if info.
Maybe PM those 3 people?

I've talked to Ron about it but haven't had the chance to talk to anyone else yet. I was planning on messaging Terry and wmg too but figured I'd post a thread and cast a wider net.

I've got a lot of good stuff to work with already but I really want to make it one of the better resources on the internet.

 

[chet15]

One good note for you is that of the 12 original Sec Six models initially advertised by Ruger, all 12 were actually made for the lowback. A couple were in very small production (heard maybe 10-12 or so), but all were definitely produced.
Then of course there are the 4 speed six models with low back and three models of stainless Security-Six GA-32, GA-34 and GA36.
There is also a round butt GA-32RB in the lowback as well as a prototype RDA-94 blue 4" 9mm Security-Six with Pilorget ring in the rear of the cylinder that is a low back frame.
Chet15

 

[azleite]

Please keep us posted, I’d really like to read this. Thanks-Dave

 

[eveled]

Please keep us posted, I'd really like to read this. Thanks-Dave

Me too.

 

[gunman42782]

Please keep us posted, I'd really like to read this. Thanks-Dave

Me as well!

 

[magnum0710]

One good note for you is that of the 12 original Sec Six models initially advertised by Ruger, all 12 were actually made for the lowback. A couple were in very small production (heard maybe 10-12 or so), but all were definitely produced.
Then of course there are the 4 speed six models with low back and three models of stainless Security-Six GA-32, GA-34 and GA36.
There is also a round butt GA-32RB in the lowback as well as a prototype RDA-94 blue 4" 9mm Security-Six with Pilorget ring in the rear of the cylinder that is a low back frame.
Chet15

Let me see if I got it right, all blued so RDA-32, 34, 36, then the fixed sight Security (not Service) likely in the same barrel lengths get us to 6. Then the same guns chambered in 38 special would get us to 12 right? I don't know the model number off hand for the fixed sight Security.

Right now I'm trying to pin point when the 9mm came out, the 380 rim (I believe those first show up in the 154 range) and I'm digging through old threads trying to get more info on the heavy barrel, specifically the "machined" heavy barrel. Right now I'm seeing 1979 for the first heavy barrels.

Wait so the 9mm was prototyped from the beginning? Thats very interesting, most 9mm models I've seen are late 70s early 80s. I did see something really interesting not too long ago, Numrich has 6 inch 9mm barrels for sale. I never seen or even knew a 6 inch 9mm existed. I was just reading about the Pilorget 9mms earlier today, those would make a killing in today's market. I'm surprised they didn't try it with the SP in recent years with all the 9mm hype.

 

[magnum0710]

I will definitely keep everyone posted but it won't be out until next year some time.

 

[Terry T]

I have some data on the California Highway Patrol (CHP) contract snafu and I have the Stainless 6" Security Six low back you're looking for. Then there's the special order without the "warning" for the Penn State Police of Crawford and Erie Counties just for beginners. How about the 5" Service Six for the failed RCMP contract bid? And all the actual 3" (not 2 3/4") guns? Lovemydals has the largest Speed Six collection. Start with Chad's book for the best foundation. Did you know the extra material removed from the scallop on the frame was added to the top strap? How to check to see if a square butt has been post-factory converted to a round butt? You've bitten off a huge project. If you're getting paid to write this article (book), credit must be given to your sources in the article.

Oh, and, yes, a 9mm SP101 has been part of the offering right along, in two barrel lengths and two frame sizes for close to 35 years and is still being offered.
Terry T.

 

[magnum0710]

Terry, sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday I had a million things going on.

I'm a sucker for the true 3 inch guns, they're my favorite of the Sixes! I managed to find a GF-33 a few months ago, I have a USPS model too. What's really interesting is the barrel profiles are different on my two, the barrel on the PS is sharper while the barrel on the Service is smoother. I noticed this in pictures before, I've seen both barrel types on the PS models but the others (GF-33, 83-NYCPD) all have the smoother profile. I'm guessing the design was changed early on but so far haven't been able to find anything concrete. The only other thing I can think is maybe some 4 inch barrels were to cut down to 3 but I doubt it. My money is on the design being changed.

I knew about the material being moved to the top strap, I'm not 100% on this one but I believe the square butt frame and round butt frame have slightly different dimensions. The bottom of the grip frame where the SN is stamped is just a hair shorter (bottom of the grip to the bottom of the circle) on the round butt than it is on the square. If one were converted from square to round at the factory my guess is the conversion would be done before the SN was stamped and the dimensions would at least be close to a legitimate round butt. If it were done outside of the factory the SN would be stamped already and the bottom ledge of the grip frame would retain the square butt dimensions. Thats just a guess but I have a feeling small differences in the dimensions have something to do with it.

I know measuring the bottom of the grip frame is how people were able to figure out the round butts marked PSS were originally square and converted but I never looked into it too much. Normally if it's not one of the known ones like the PSS I just assume it wasn't done at Ruger. I saw one recently that was really disappointing, a GF-33 someone round butted.

I did know about the 5 inch RCMP but never got into the details of it. To be honest I may or may not include prototypes or one off guns like the 5 inch or WMG's high polish stainless low back only because I may need to trim some things down. It'll really come down to wether or not I do an entire part on rare models or if I go over the rare ones in the main parts. Plus, we gotta keep some secrets right?

Not sure if I'm getting paid or not, we didn't really talk about it. I didn't ask because I'm just really happy to have the opportunity, this really opens the door for me even if it just goes on my resume.

I was talking about the Pilorget extractor when I said that about the 9mm SP. I knew about the 9mm SP I'm just surprised no one besides Charter Arms has tried the no moon clip thing recently. I think if Ruger or S&W offered a small 9mm revolver with that type of extraction system it would be a big deal, lot's of LE agencies allow small 38s for back up but a no moon clip 9 would be ideal for that role.

Here are my two 33s, can you see what I mean about the barrels?

 

[hittman]

Don’t forget about the factory ROUND butt Police Service Six marked guns. Maybe that already been mentioned …..

 

[protoolman]

Not sure how far into the weeds you want to get but I'd have pictures available of all the high back grips that were offered. Rubber Target grips , Rubber compact round butt. Regular square butt grips both checkered and smooth as well as a rare smooth oversized wraparound Wood that was possibly used on special editions or something. All from Lett except the rubbers which were sourced from Sile? Unfortunately all my grips didn't come to me on guns so I don't know what they shipped on . A write up on how the bobbed hammers in the USA were all checkered on top and could lock back as opposed to Canadian Contract guns which were often dao with the full cock notch ground off and the hammer spur left on so they would fit strap holsters, could be something else I haven't seen in print.

 

[hittman]

Grips

 

[T.A. WORKMAN]

This is the book I'm waiting for... ;)

 

[contender]

Ohh Terry,, you are bad!!!!!!! :D :D

 

[Terry T]

Low back Stainless Security Six:

 

[Terry T]

How to tell a scalloped frame Service Six (square butt) has been after factory changed to a round butt. The bottom of the grip frame on the Service Six is thinner.

 

[Terry T]

Three different Service Six barrel or ejector housing profiles, earliest on top, later on bottom:

 

[Terry T]

Hitman is referring to Speed Six round butt guns mis-stamped as "Police Service Six". They letter as Speed Six and the grip frame measurement, see my previous post, above, confirms they are actually factory round butt guns and not "homemade" (by grinding off the square heel of the square butt) round butt.
We've identified approximately a dozen mis-stamped guns. Rare, indeed.
Two were included in a shipment to the San Francisco Sheriff's Dept. as part of an order of Speed Sixs. They were shipped nearly 4 years after manufacture. One wonders if quality control set them aside and then included them with a shipment to a police agency figuring the agency wouldn't mind or notice. I have one.

 

[magnum0710]

Don't forget about the factory ROUND butt Police Service Six marked guns. Maybe that already been mentioned …..

I mentioned them in my reply to Terry, they were converted to round butt to fill a contract right? I remember reading an older thread about those a while back and there was some debate on wether they were stamped wrong or converted to round.

 

[magnum0710]

Not sure how far into the weeds you want to get but I'd have pictures available of all the high back grips that were offered. Rubber Target grips , Rubber compact round butt. Regular square butt grips both checkered and smooth as well as a rare smooth oversized wraparound Wood that was possibly used on special editions or something. All from Lett except the rubbers which were sourced from Sile? Unfortunately all my grips didn't come to me on guns so I don't know what they shipped on . A write up on how the bobbed hammers in the USA were all checkered on top and could lock back as opposed to Canadian Contract guns which were often dao with the full cock notch ground off and the hammer spur left on so they would fit strap holsters, could be something else I haven't seen in print.

I'll gladly take the pictures! And yes the factory rubber grips were made by Sile. I'm not sure why but a lot of people thought they were Pachmayrs but they were definitely made by Sile. The only reason I know this is because I've had the target and round butt versions without the medallions and they're identical except for that. The ones without medallions say Sile made in Italy on the inside too.

I did not know that about the Canadian contract guns, I know the NYCPD guns were spurless and DAO.

 

[magnum0710]

This is the book I'm waiting for... ;)

Right!!!

My little series isn't even going to be close to what could be done with a book but I think it'll be one of the better sources of information on the internet.

 

[magnum0710]

How to tell a scalloped frame Service Six (square butt) has been after factory changed to a round butt. The bottom of the grip frame on the Service Six is thinner.

View attachment 80401


View attachment 80402

Thats what it was!!! I knew one was shorter than the other but I thought the actual round butt was shorter. Thank you!!!

 

[magnum0710]

Hitman is referring to Speed Six round butt guns mis-stamped as "Police Service Six". They letter as Speed Six and the grip frame measurement, see my previous post, above, confirms they are actually factory round butt guns and not "homemade" (by grinding off the square heel of the square butt) round butt.
We've identified approximately a dozen mis-stamped guns. Rare, indeed.
Two were included in a shipment to the San Francisco Sheriff's Dept. as part of an order of Speed Sixs. They were shipped nearly 4 years after manufacture. One wonders if quality control set them aside and then included them with a shipment to a police agency figuring the agency wouldn't mind or notice. I have one.

Thats right!!! I completely forgot they were mis-stamps, not sure why I thought they were converted to round butt at the factory to fill a contract. I think that may have a been a theory that went around before there was any confirmation or anything.

The sad part is I knew those were mis-stamped because someone on another forum had one. Unfortunately they sent it to the factory (when they'd still touch a Six) and had them give it the correct stamp.

I went and looked through a few threads on the mis-stamps and I think I found yours. 160 prefix, 2.75" heavy barrel so thats 84-85 production. So those shipped around 87-88? That is strange they didn't ship for so long. I noticed yours lettered as a GS-32P. Has anyone been able to confirm for sure the P stands for Pachmayr? I'm 110% certain the factory rubber grips were made by Sile and the only reason I'm so sure is because I've had the plain Sile versions of both the Speed Six and Security/Service rubber grips. They're identical except for the Sile "aftermarket" versions didn't have the medallions and the insides are marked "Sile" and "Made in Italy". I can take one panel from the factory version with medallions and one panel from the plain Sile version and they match perfectly.


I'm wondering if Pachmayr was supposed to make the factory rubber grips for Ruger and thats where the "P" designation came from? Maybe the deal fell through and no one bothered to change the designation? Or perhaps they shipped some earlier guns with Pachmayr grips and "P" became the designation for all rubber grips?

 

[GasGuzzler]

I might be getting my first one next week. Local for sale 4" blued unit with weirdo grips.

 

[weaselmeatgravy]

This is the book I'm waiting for... ;)

Don't hold your breath... I last touched that in 2009. I finished 4 chapters and had only made it through the lowback models, and by then I learned more about the lowbacks that required a rewrite to some of the material. It seemed to me that 50 pages just for incomplete info on the lowbacks indicated that the highbacks might need another 200+ pages. So that seemed overwhelming, and I got writer's block. Figured I'd pick it up again when I retired, but I've been retired for 4 years now...

 

[T.A. WORKMAN]

Don't hold your breath... I last touched that in 2009. I finished 4 chapters and had only made it through the lowback models, and by then I learned more about the lowbacks that required a rewrite to some of the material. It seemed to me that 50 pages just for incomplete info on the lowbacks indicated that the highbacks might need another 200+ pages. So that seemed overwhelming, and I got writer's block. Figured I'd pick it up again when I retired, but I've been retired for 4 years now...

Bob,
Surely your not going to let a couple of minor set backs and delays kill this project, hell its only been 16 years :unsure: :unsure:.
Great works often require an extensive period of time. As to the writers block hell don't worry about that its a common malady of Gun Scribes, it comes and goes.;)
Since you retired 4 years ago (a mere pittance of time) you have been trying to get relocated to Tennessee, once that happens you'll be fine and the words will flow
like a babbling brook in the spring.
I remain hopeful that the project will prove fruitful, if by some chance it doesn't, do you return deposits ?:cool:
Best,
Terry