Ruger vs Colt SAA Vs FA 97?

[BIgMuddy]

If we are talking 45 Colt caliber here, there is one issue that seems to still exist with Colt SAA's. I have one and it is a terrific revolver with one problem, and that is the size of the cylinder throats. Why they can't get that right is beyond me. The Colt's throats are too large, which can only be fixed with a new cylinder. Spending $1200 for a gun that is difficult at best to get it to shoot accurately is a mystery.

The other caliber Colts don't seem to have the problem, so go figure.

Rugers all seem to have throats that are too small. Still aggravating, but an easy and in-expensive fix.

I don't own a FA 97 yet, bet I do have 83's and their throats are pretty much perfect. I bet the 97 is the same. I know for sure it danged well was not designed for CAS. Like C.R. pointed out, it has a 5 shot cylinder.

 

[Sonnytoo]

All those posts are right. The Colt has history and great balance behind it; the Ruger is much stronger and the coil springs will not likely break.

However, my Colt Single-Action New Frontier .45 drives a 260 grain hard-cast, safely, at 1200 fps and that will do anything I need to do, unless I get to Alaska. I also load 280 grain at 1050 fps in this gun. And John Linebaugh has these 260-grain loads on his site, and says he has shot hundreds of New Frontiers at 1200 fps. The New Frontier is stronger than the regualr Colt SAA because of its heavy backstrap.
Yeah, I have a fair number of Rugers, but I keep looking on GunBroker for a 4 34/" New Frontier .45. The balance is out-of-this-world and yes, it surpasses the Ruger.
The model 97 is stronger than a Mack truck, but you gotta know that the cylinder is a bit short at 1.625", which may restrict you from shooting 300 grain or heavier loads. Of course, the Ruger Blackhawk or standard Vaquero will take these heavy loads. The New Vaquero will not and is restricted to standard .45 SAAMI loads.
Sonnytoo

 

[Sonnytoo]

If we are talking 45 Colt caliber here, there is one issue that seems to still exist with Colt SAA's. I have one and it is a terrific revolver with one problem, and that is the size of the cylinder throats. Why they can't get that right is beyond me. The Colt's throats are too large, which can only be fixed with a new cylinder. Spending $1200 for a gun that is difficult at best to get it to shoot accurately is a mystery.

John Linebaugh and Hamilton Bowen both say to just use hard-cast bullets of .454 or .455" diameter in your Colt, which helps take up the slack of those larger throats. Yeah, my Colt has .457" throats. Hamilton Bowen has "fixed" Colt inaccuracy by using the larger diameter bullets. It should work for you. Try 100 hardcast from Beartooth; you might be surprised.
Sonnytoo

 

[tek4260]

1200fps sounds a bit warm for a Colt from what I have read. I have went over the book max with 260gr cast/HS6 and still have a hard time breaking 950fps while trying to find a somewhat stout load that is safe for my New Vaquero.

 

[tom32]

My 2nd Gen Colt shoots .454" 250 gr lrn bullets that can just about touch at 25 yards from a rest and at point of aim. I know the gun and bullet can do it. The weak link there is me.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

The New Frontier is stronger than the regualr Colt SAA because of its heavy backstrap.

That is incorrect. The pressure vessel of any revolver is the cylinder, not the frame or any part of the frame. If there is an overpressure event, it is the cylinder that will blow, not the backstrap. The fact that backstraps usually curl like a banana peel after a cylinder blows is only because the cylinder burst first, taking the backstrap along with it. The backstrap adds nothing to the ability of the gun to survive an overpressure event. A heavy backstrap may add to the gun's ability to put up with heavy recoil over a long period of time, but it will do nothing to prevent a blowup if too powerful a cartridge finds its way into the gun.

Frankly, I have to question this logic about New Frontiers being stronger than the normal SAA. The dimensions of the cylinder are no different on a New Frontier than they are on a SAA. Made of the same steel too. I know Mr Taffin has made many public statements about the superior strength of the New Frontier, but their cylinders are identical. Either the SAA is stronger than everybody thinks, or the New Frontier is weaker. You cannot have it both ways.

And I might add that quoting bullet weight and velocity is meaningless too. It is pressure that is the over riding concern when one talks about how strong a gun is, not bullet weight and velocity. And that is dependent on the specific charge of the specific powder that is used. One powder may generate the given velocity with the given bullet and remain in the safe zone, another may not.

 

[Sagebrush Burns]

I have owned and shot all three in 45 Colt. All are excellent revolvers.

The Freedom Arms is probably the finest made handgun I have ever encountered. Tolerances and fit are unsurpassed. With the five shot cylinder, you don't have the thin spot at the cocking notch so you gain useful strength for stouter loads. With the countersunk rim the cylinder is effectively shorter and longer bullets (including the standard Keith 255 SWC) must be seated deeper. Unfortunately, the grip shape doesn't work for me - busts my knuckle every shot and pretty soon I start flinching.

Had Ruger Blackhawks, Bisleys, Vaqueros, and New Vaqueros. With the transfer bar, being able to load and carry six is very nice. The New Vaquero and Blackhawk grips feel subtly wrong to me, but that's just personal. The New Vaquero is essentially the same size as a Colt SAA and feels very similar in the hand and is similar in strength. The Bisley is my favority grip shape for shooting stout loads - more comfortable and controllable than the Colt or the FA.

The Colts, both SAA and New Frontier have always been my favorites. Been using them for close to 40 years now and they feel just right to me. Colts are stronger than many people give them credit for, but in 45 the cylinder is very thin at the cocking notch. I did run a double load of W231 in one once by mistake and had to buy a new cylinder (hairline crack in the cocking notch) but the gun was otherwise undamaged. The gun is plenty durable for cowboy action shooting or field use.

What it really comes down to is preferences and needs. If you want to shoot 300 grain bullets at 1300 fps you want a large frame Ruger or a FA. If you want to safely carry with six rounds you want a Ruger. For everything else you (or at least I) want a Colt.

 

[ShortBBL]

I hate to admit this but.... after drooling over the pictures of some of those dang pretty color case hardened and blue Colts.. I ordered one in from my favorite "pusher". It got here today and.... well... yeah, it's very VERY purty! Perfect I guess is one way of saying it but..... when I hold it, I don't get all warm and fuzzy... no more than when I hold my Lipsey 44. OUCH..... this Colt cost a tad more than the Lipseys!

So.... either I'll fall in love fast OR more likely, somebody is gonna get a DEAL on a really nice Colt!

I need to have my fingers slapped sometimes! ha ha

 

[CraigC]

That is incorrect. The pressure vessel of any revolver is the cylinder, not the frame or any part of the frame.

Very true but the frame must also resist stretching over the long term. Backthrust is what stretches frames, chamber pressure blows cylinders. It stands to reason that what every authority on this subject has told us, that the New Frontier is stronger than the SAA, because its heavier TOPstrap is stronger and more resistant to stretching. Chamber pressure is not the only factor that tests a sixgun's strength.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I hate to admit this but.... after drooling over the pictures of some of those dang pretty color case hardened and blue Colts.. I ordered one in from my favorite "pusher". It got here today and.... well... yeah, it's very VERY purty! Perfect I guess is one way of saying it but..... when I hold it, I don't get all warm and fuzzy... no more than when I hold my Lipsey 44. OUCH..... this Colt cost a tad more than the Lipseys!

So.... either I'll fall in love fast OR more likely, somebody is gonna get a DEAL on a really nice Colt!

I need to have my fingers slapped sometimes! ha ha

I've found out the hard way that just because you spend a lot of money on a gun doesn't mean it's going to be "the one". There are plenty of high priced models out there these days. I try to remember this every time a one of them catches my eye. I also try to remember that one of my most accurate new guns in recent years is one that cost less than $500, and there's a certain satisfaction in that, too.

-- Sam

 

[ShortBBL]

I hate to admit this but.... after drooling over the pictures of some of those dang pretty color case hardened and blue Colts.. I ordered one in from my favorite "pusher". It got here today and.... well... yeah, it's very VERY purty! Perfect I guess is one way of saying it but..... when I hold it, I don't get all warm and fuzzy... no more than when I hold my Lipsey 44. OUCH..... this Colt cost a tad more than the Lipseys!

So.... either I'll fall in love fast OR more likely, somebody is gonna get a DEAL on a really nice Colt!

I need to have my fingers slapped sometimes! ha ha

I've found out the hard way that just because you spend a lot of money on a gun doesn't mean it's going to be "the one". There are plenty of high priced models out there these days. I try to remember this every time a one of them catches my eye. I also try to remember that one of my most accurate new guns in recent years is one that cost less than $500, and there's a certain satisfaction in that, too.

-- Sam

I hear ya Sam! My 44 special is a dream... shoots incredible. I've always loved the look of the Colts but man.... now that it's sittin here.. I'm like... "Hmmmm so is that worth THAT much more"? LOL

I do that too often... buy, then the "why did I just buy that" hits. It's an illness. Hopefully won't cost me too much! ha ha

Here's a Pic of the Colt... maybe I need to keep it and have a forced relationship! ha ha

 

[BIgMuddy]

John Linebaugh and Hamilton Bowen both say to just use hard-cast bullets of .454 or .455" diameter in your Colt, which helps take up the slack of those larger throats. Yeah, my Colt has .457" throats. Hamilton Bowen has "fixed" Colt inaccuracy by using the larger diameter bullets. It should work for you. Try 100 hardcast from Beartooth; you might be surprised.
Sonnytoo

I was just looking on the BearTooth web site and thinking of trying the larger diameter bullets before I re-chamber the gun. Thanks for the advice and I will give that a try. I was also looking at Montana Bullet Works.

 

[ShortBBL]

John Linebaugh and Hamilton Bowen both say to just use hard-cast bullets of .454 or .455" diameter in your Colt, which helps take up the slack of those larger throats. Yeah, my Colt has .457" throats. Hamilton Bowen has "fixed" Colt inaccuracy by using the larger diameter bullets. It should work for you. Try 100 hardcast from Beartooth; you might be surprised.
Sonnytoo

I was just looking on the BearTooth web site and thinking of trying the larger diameter bullets before I re-chamber the gun. Thanks for the advice and I will give that a try. I was also looking at Montana Bullet Works.

How do you rechamber a gun that is already too big in the chambers? I guess you could make it a 50 Special or something.... you cant make those oversized chambers smaller!

 

[Sgt Garcia]

For me the FA Md97 in 45 Colt, with 5 ½ inch barrel, is as close to perfection in a factory sixgun
as I'm likely to ever encounter. I've stopped looking......


Dennis.

 

[BIgMuddy]

Short BBL

You can if you have another cylinder. :wink:

I have a 3rd gen 357 Cylinder that have been considering having re-chambered to a tight 45.

Dan

 

[ShortBBL]

Short BBL

You can if you have another cylinder. :wink:

I have a 3rd gen 357 Cylinder that have been considering having re-chambered to a tight 45.

Dan

that's kinda cheating! Ha ha

it would be effective though!! I hope mine don't need that much work to shoot good!

 

[Kanook]

For me the FA Md97 in 45 Colt, with 5 ½ inch barrel, is as close to perfection in a factory sixgun
as I'm likely to ever encounter.

Just wondering, isn't the 97 in 45 a fivegun? :twisted:

very nice by the way

 

[BIgMuddy]

For me the FA Md97 in 45 Colt, with 5 ½ inch barrel, is as close to perfection in a factory sixgun
as I'm likely to ever encounter.

Just wondering, isn't the 97 in 45 a fivegun? :twisted:

very nice by the way

Picky picky :lol:

Yeah it is a REAL NICE 5-gun too.

 

[BIgMuddy]

I have probably given the impression that my Colt won't hit a wash tub. That is not the case, and I have a load that does work pretty good. Took me a while to find it, and it is with a RNFP bullet. I want to shoot Keith style bullets and so far they have not worked at all. I hope the larger diameter from Beartooth is the ticket.

I just wish it was better, thats all. :wink:

 

[Sgt Garcia]

For me the FA Md97 in 45 Colt, with 5 ½ inch barrel, is as close to perfection in a factory sixgun
as I'm likely to ever encounter.

Just wondering, isn't the 97 in 45 a fivegun? :twisted:

very nice by the way

Yea yea and you can only safely load 5 in a Colt so...... :wink:

Dennis.