I own a Ruger KP95dc and am thinking about taking further training classes with it. however, I have a friend that said his instructor wouldn't allow a Ruger in his classes. Said they couldn't hold up. I have watched several training videos and never see a Ruger being used. Has anyone taken a tactical class with their Ruger and how did it hold up?
ruger pistols and tactical training classes
- Thread starter la2781
- Start date
OldePhart
Blackhawk
I'm not a Ruger fanboi...and there are certainly some QC issues with Ruger...but honestly I think I'd look for a different instructor on two counts:
1) If I were instructing then you'd be signing a waiver that if your gun failed during the class and you didn't have another to continue to finish the class...it would be your tough luck.
2) Given (1) above, I wouldn't see much need to say, "no, your 'brand X' isn't good enough." Now, I might make recommendations based on experience if you were wise enough to ask...but to simply say that a particular brand wasn't good enough for my class is kind of lame unless the concern is real safety issues (depending on the nature of the class there are some individual gun models especially among the cheaper imports that I might well disallow).
The bottom line is that any instructor has a right to set his policies and if this guy isn't comfortable with Rugers that's his right. The other side of that coin is that potential students have every right to decide where they'll spend their hard earned dollars and I'd be pretty skeptical of spending mine with an instructor that blanket-banned Rugers.
As I said, it's fairly obvious that there are some pretty serious QC issues with Ruger right now; at least, it seems obvious to me having purchased a recently manufactured Ruger pistol and having had to spend a considerable bit of time doing finish work that Ruger should have done just to make the gun reliable with common defensive ammo. That said, there are tens of thousands of Ruger pistols out there that are reliable and proven...eliminating them smacks of elitism or laziness, IMHO.
John
1) If I were instructing then you'd be signing a waiver that if your gun failed during the class and you didn't have another to continue to finish the class...it would be your tough luck.
2) Given (1) above, I wouldn't see much need to say, "no, your 'brand X' isn't good enough." Now, I might make recommendations based on experience if you were wise enough to ask...but to simply say that a particular brand wasn't good enough for my class is kind of lame unless the concern is real safety issues (depending on the nature of the class there are some individual gun models especially among the cheaper imports that I might well disallow).
The bottom line is that any instructor has a right to set his policies and if this guy isn't comfortable with Rugers that's his right. The other side of that coin is that potential students have every right to decide where they'll spend their hard earned dollars and I'd be pretty skeptical of spending mine with an instructor that blanket-banned Rugers.
As I said, it's fairly obvious that there are some pretty serious QC issues with Ruger right now; at least, it seems obvious to me having purchased a recently manufactured Ruger pistol and having had to spend a considerable bit of time doing finish work that Ruger should have done just to make the gun reliable with common defensive ammo. That said, there are tens of thousands of Ruger pistols out there that are reliable and proven...eliminating them smacks of elitism or laziness, IMHO.
John
OldePhart
Blackhawk
Oh...just kind of tongue in cheek...if I had a real concern about whether your gun was suitable I'd make you shoot about 300 rounds of crappy cheapo ammo through it non-stop without cleaning. If it passed that test it would be "in" LOL
CaptBullets
Bearcat
I've never used a Ruger auto in a training class, I'm more of a revolver guy, but I have seen a few Ruger autos in the training classes I've taken. One P-series (sorry can recall specific model) and a couple SR-9s. Neither seemed to have any issues mechanically that I observed.
As others have said I'd find another trainer if he won't allow your gun.
Brian
As others have said I'd find another trainer if he won't allow your gun.
Brian
5of7
Hunter
sometimes these "instructors" are a little off-the-wall.
One of my nieces decided to take the CPL class here in Mi., and since she had little shooting experience, ask my opinion on what to carry and for some rudimentary shooting experience at the family range.
She settled on a Ruger LCR in .38 Special since it is free of bells and whistles and she opined that remembering the safety and such might be problematical in PD situation....smart girl.
Anyway I got her the gun and 100 rounds of 125 grain ammo and after a short session at the range she was keeping her shots in about 6" rapid fire at 30 feet. So, off the went to the class.
I had suggested that she use a shooting glove because she was going to shoot about 50 rounds in the class, but the "instructor" told her that she couldn't use it because, in his words, "you won't have a shooting glove on in a PD situation." Fortunately he did allow her to wear hearing protection.
Apparently this guy thought all PD encounters resulted on 50 plus being shot by the CPL holder.
The result was that she came home with a very sore hand and a tendency to flinch, neither of which she had prior to the course that she took. 8)
One of my nieces decided to take the CPL class here in Mi., and since she had little shooting experience, ask my opinion on what to carry and for some rudimentary shooting experience at the family range.
She settled on a Ruger LCR in .38 Special since it is free of bells and whistles and she opined that remembering the safety and such might be problematical in PD situation....smart girl.
Anyway I got her the gun and 100 rounds of 125 grain ammo and after a short session at the range she was keeping her shots in about 6" rapid fire at 30 feet. So, off the went to the class.
I had suggested that she use a shooting glove because she was going to shoot about 50 rounds in the class, but the "instructor" told her that she couldn't use it because, in his words, "you won't have a shooting glove on in a PD situation." Fortunately he did allow her to wear hearing protection.
Apparently this guy thought all PD encounters resulted on 50 plus being shot by the CPL holder.
The result was that she came home with a very sore hand and a tendency to flinch, neither of which she had prior to the course that she took. 8)
lipofsky
Single-Sixer
I also have a KP95DC, I have put several thousand rounds of cheap Wolf, Tula, in addition to whatever the cheap stuff on sale at Wally World, thru my P-95 and have yet to have any issues of any mechanical failure. The only failures was two rounds of Herters that had the bullet improperly seated and thus a FTF. It may not be a sexy looking thing but it is built like a tank. And runs and runs and runs and it is stock out of the box no trigger jobs or springs or anything else. I am thinking the instructor was way off base.
la2781 said:
I'm thinking if a P gun couldn't hold up to this guys class, I would probably break down too. :oops:
I really wonder what the heck he is subjecting the guns to during his "training"? It is generally agreed that the P guns are tough as nails and 100% reliable. Even if you feel they are not accurate enough for target shooting, they would seem to be plenty accurate for any tactical type shooting out to 25 yards.
Unless your P95DC has seen excessive use or abuse I would wager that you could finish his class with your P95. If shooting for score and you are a skilled shooter, you will shoot better than others will with more trendy iron. I've seen this at CCW classes and IDPA shoots numerous times. Just because someone spends $1500 on a pistol and rig does not mean it will run, they can run it, or that they can hit anything with it. I've schooled a few fanbois and have been schooled by the same. Often shooter skill can overcome any perceived weapon handicap so long as the gun is reliable. Let us know how you end up doing with your "lowly ruger".....if he even lets you shoot. :roll:
the only issue I have with some of the discussion above is why would you run 300 rounds of cheap ammo through any pistol....
My brother let his CWP here in S.C. expire and so due to the wisdom of our state government he had to take the entire day long class again including the qualification part which requires one shoot 50 rounds at a full size target at various distances... he borrowed one of my Ruger KP95dc's for this, here is his target:
My brother let his CWP here in S.C. expire and so due to the wisdom of our state government he had to take the entire day long class again including the qualification part which requires one shoot 50 rounds at a full size target at various distances... he borrowed one of my Ruger KP95dc's for this, here is his target:
Greg Mercurio
Single-Sixer
Find a different instructor.
I took my CCW class with a P90. As I was the only one who arrived for class, I had the instructor to myself for the entire day. Happily, I brought extra rounds. 500 rounds with no jams, no problems, no cleaning. Just a happy camper. Seriously tired of people crapping on Ruger with anecdotal BS.
I took my CCW class with a P90. As I was the only one who arrived for class, I had the instructor to myself for the entire day. Happily, I brought extra rounds. 500 rounds with no jams, no problems, no cleaning. Just a happy camper. Seriously tired of people crapping on Ruger with anecdotal BS.
OldePhart
Blackhawk
It was meant kind of tongue in cheek - although that's exactly what I usually do with a new pistol...I'll clean the gun to get any machining residue or what have you out and then run a few hundred rounds of Wolf or the like to limber the gun up and see how well it functions after getting really dirty. I do that because it's cheap enough that I can just blow through it and not really care whether I hit anything with it. After a good cleaning the gun gets good ammo from there out. If I have no failures during that torture test with crappy, inconsistent, filthy, sooty ammo I am reasonably confident it will shoot just about anything and isn't going to go all dainty on me if a bit of lint finds it's way into the action.blume357 said:
groberts
Single-Sixer
It would seem to me that having a gun in a class that "wouldn't hold up" would be an opportuinty to teach how to clear problems quickly in a defensive situation. :P
welder
Buckeye
TRanger said:
This.
A Ruger P gun will shoot as long as any out there and longer than most. Sounds like the guy is biased and ignorant. I have no experience with the SR series but have nearly a dozen P guns and none have ever malfunctioned in any way.
Rabon
Single-Sixer
I wouldn't keep a gun that couldn't run any ammunition. :lol:blume357 said:the only issue I have with some of the discussion above is why would you run 300 rounds of cheap ammo through any pistol....
My brother let his CWP here in S.C. expire and so due to the wisdom of our state government he had to take the entire day long class again including the qualification part which requires one shoot 50 rounds at a full size target at various distances... he borrowed one of my Ruger KP95dc's for this, here is his target:
welder said:
I passed about 15000 rounds with my SR40c recently without malfunction. The only malfunction was my second trip to the range where my hand slipped off the slide when racking in the first round from the magazine. I should add this was my first firearm and was very inexperienced. It caused the slide to only go halfway back (or less I'm not sure) resulting in a jammed first round. The springs are very stiff when new, but that one was all me.
But then there are reports of those with problems, I can only speak for my personal experience, clearly there have been some bad ones from what I've read here.
pjvrefugee
Single-Sixer
I own a P85 bought new when the series was new that will outlast the pyramids. it also has not malfunctioned since I bought it. I also have owned two P95's that were just as reliable, and I expect just as durable. my youngest son got a P89 the year he turned 9. yes, that is correct, 9. he touched it only at the range and only under hands on supervision, with total safety and excellent fundamentals. that pistol still sees the range several times a year (Tony is now 29). my two SR9's (full size and 9c), my SR40 and 40c and my SR45 will also outlast me by likely several generations as long as my grandchildren take care of them. not last? bullpucky! and they are AT LEAST combat accurate. they will certainly outshoot me and this ain't my first day! the prejudice of one instructor is as important as a fart in the wind.
OldePhart
Blackhawk
That needs to go in somebody's signature... 8)pjvrefugee said:
la2781 said:
If your friend is telling the truth and this "instructor" is serious, I'd find another instructor as it's highly possible that he has had one too many hits on the "glock koolaide sippy cup" :roll:. Ruger P Series pistols have stood the test of time and have consistently proved to be well built and reliable. My P95DC is now over 14,500 rounds without a single failure of any kind (including several range sessions along the way of 300+ rounds), so I suspect that it, yours and the vast majority of other P Series pistols would handle his "tactical class" with ease :wink:
rammerjammer
Blackhawk
Find a new instructor. That won't be the only BS he spouts off. A P-series can hold up to the wear and tear.
And I have outshot guys with their $1000 plus Sigs and H&Ks (great brands each) with a $400 Ruger. Are their guns nicer? Yes. But I still outshot them with what they would turn their nose up to.
And I have outshot guys with their $1000 plus Sigs and H&Ks (great brands each) with a $400 Ruger. Are their guns nicer? Yes. But I still outshot them with what they would turn their nose up to.
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