Ruger PCC in 40 S&W

Help Support Ruger Forum:

rangerbob

Buckeye
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
1,240
Ruger has announced the PCC in 40 S&W, along with M Lock forend variations in 9mm. I was hoping for a 10mm. Bob! :( :cry:
 

grobin

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
846
Too bad! 40 isn't enough different from 9mm to be interesting! I'd buy a 10mm or even a 480 or 460 version. Or how about a 38-55, 30 krag, 44-40, or a 45-70 any of these would be a 35 Legend killer.
 

SteelBlue

Single-Sixer
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
423
rangerbob said:
Ruger has announced the PCC in 40 S&W, along with M Lock forend variations in 9mm. I was hoping for a 10mm. Bob! :( :cry:

The free-float hand guard looks the business!
 

9x19

Hunter
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Messages
2,444
Location
Texas
Curious... the local shops won't take a .40 in on trade, as they say .40 guns just don't sell.
 

rangerbob

Buckeye
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
1,240
The 40 is just about dead as a LE handgun, 9mm ammo is cheaper which equates to more training for the same money. The nines hold more ammo and are usually easier to teach new recruits how to shoot. Nowadays most new recruits have zero gun experience and expecting them to master a 40 is like expecting them to drive a vehicle with a manual transmission. When the 40 was first adopted and put in use, most scores at the range went down and a solid hit with a 9mm beats the hell out of a miss with a 40. During my 22 years of CC instruction, I've seen many clients with 40's simply because that what the cops used. I get fliers weekly advertising police trade in Glocks and Sigs in 40, a good buy if one is in the market. Ruger has more or less discontinued 40's in their own pistol lines and now the expect to sell 40 carbines? Now the 10mm is a whole other animal and they sell autos and revolvers in 10mm. I'm disappointed!!!!!!!!!!! :cry: Bob!
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2002
Messages
5,516
Location
Oregon City, Oregon
This is interesting the hate resurfacing with the .40 S&W cartridge. Adding to the hate, is now the .40 is thought to be way too powerful for recruits or other newer shooters? Give me a break.

But in the nearly same breath, folks claim to be in love with the 10mm combinations, in spite of most 10mm loads being reduced to .40 S&W levels. We can't agree on anything. :lol:

The new spin is the 9mm cartridge from a carbine will do everything a .40 will do. I guess I went to a different school. Given a 9mm 115 or 124 grain leaving the barrel at 1200+/- fps, and given the .40 180 grain leaves the barrel at roughly the same speed, my math gives the .40 S&W quite an edge. In fact, since that is the power level of a .357 out of a revolver, and a .357 from a revolver is considered the minimum for medium game hunting, the PCC in .40 should be an adequate truck gun or survival gun.

I've owned a number of the previous PC4 carbines and was well impressed with its shootability at 50 yards. I've also shot it successfully at 100 yards, but I'm being realistic here. If it's my SHTF gun and I have to use it for everything, I'd sure rather hit a medium size animal with a 180 grain bullet than a 115 or 124 grain bullet going the same speed.

That's why the gun companies continue to release new combinations. To keep everybody arguing what's best and to keep things interesting.

But, I'm old school. I still believe a .30-30 can kill a deer, and a .45ACP can stop a man. 8)
 

grobin

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
846
I frankly see the 40 as good for one thing: CYA for the FBI's training failure! The whole mess started with the Maimi debacle. It was easier for FBI management to blame the 9mm than admit their training was inadequate. At that time common policy was that range time and in a few cases ammo were on the agent not the agency. So the FBI went to 10mm! Unfortunately the low bid pistols were under engineered and training not really improved. The agents did poorly, quell surprise! So to avoid admitting that they are incompetent management took the out of down loading the 10mm to ~9mm levels, birth of the 40. Depending on the commercial ammo the 40 is only slightly different from the 9mm muzzle energy. It's the energy transferred that does the damage-not the weight of the bullet. Testing after the Moro Rebellion showed that for FMJ 45 is the minimum caliber to reliably produce fatal wounds. That was because the channel it cut was wide enough to transfer sufficient energy. With hollow points the energy transfer is greater for smaller caliber rounds than for it is for FMJ. The failed 38LC had several cases where the bullet passed completely through the Moro with out incapacitating him! Lack of energy transfer!

Thus the muzzle energy is an indicator of the effectiveness of the round. Heavy clothing or fur and thick muscle can spread and partially mute the energy requiring a heavier load or bullet to compensate.

The muzzle energy of the 40 commercial loads is similar to that of the 9mm +P high performance loads. If a need for more power is evident or a heaver load wanted going to 45 or 10mm makes far more sense than the 40 does.

Unless you are LEO with the 40 required a 40 PCC makes nonsense.
 

bentblade

Single-Sixer
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
318
Maybe I missed it but what 40 cal Ruger mags are they using? Don't see any 40 cal pistols listed on the Ruger site.
 

9x19

Hunter
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Messages
2,444
Location
Texas
No hate here, just stating the way things are in the local shops. I have no way of knowing if that is a national trend, or merely regional.

I've owned .40s, 10mms and .357 Sigs, but for my uses 9mm and .45 do just fine, so they were what survived my personal down-sizing.
 

grobin

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
846
Not really statistically significant, but last year in October I was shopping for a 10mm. Went to 3 local stores, two had the Glock 20 and one had a SIG they had just sold. One of three had all the available 10mm pistols including a Glock 40 which I bought. I'd fired the 20 and found it unpleasant. The Glock 40 was fine, but I now have a Blackhawk convertible that's a lot more fun.

No plethora of used 40s for sale here, but none of the local LEO went that route. Two of the stores were really pushing the 40 at big discounts.

Is the 40 dying? Don't know, but I don't see much use for it! For hunting it's not legal in a lot of states (357, 41mag, 44mag, 10mm, even 22lr in some areas). Not great for CC or DC. Why bother?
 

Sugar River

Buckeye
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
1,054
Location
S Florida
NH Rugerman said:
I think Ruger will have a challenge to sell many of these, a 10MM or 45ACP version would have been a much better choice....we shall see, it doesn’t excite me in the least.

YMMV

Pretty much what I'm thinking.
I was hoping for a 10 or 45.
 

rangerbob

Buckeye
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
1,240
The only good thing I can see is that at least Ruger has the front half/barrel assembly ready for 10mm with a simple rechamber. Add the proper bolt weight and mag adapter and we are go to go for a 10mm carbine. Bob!!
 

mpalm

Single-Sixer
Joined
Oct 2, 2016
Messages
165
Location
massachusetts
Lots of Glock 22's out there that will pair nicely with the PCC40.....(sadly my Original 1997 PC4 just went down in value today)
 

Buckeye Bill

Buckeye
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
1,324
Location
Far West Valley, Phoenix Arizona
The 40S&W is alive and well. Yes, many agencies have moved back to the 9mm. Many are keeping the 40S&W for many reasons. This is a natural progression to see the 9mm to 40S&W with the PCC. I too have desire for a 10MM. I wonder what type of numbers as far as velocity the 40S&W will produce out of a carbine length barrel. I have fingers crossed for a 10mm. Lots of 40S&W mags out and about for a 40 PPC.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2002
Messages
5,516
Location
Oregon City, Oregon
I am very interested in this PCC chambered in .40.

Interesting too, as we've seen so many times, the release of this model has been announced, but I don't see anybody having them available for sale.
 

t-reg

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
293
Location
MI
This seems to be an easy extension of the PCC line-up.

Haters will hate, but there are a LOT of .40 shooters out there with magazines that will fit the PCC. Hopefully it's another win for Ruger.

Can't wait to get my paws on one!
 

Rei40c

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
976
I have some questions about the .40 vrs 9mm out of a 16 inch barrel. According to the ballistics by the inch website, .40 does not benefit nearly as much from a longer barrel as the 9mm does. I believe some loads in 9mm can get an increase of 200-300 fps ish. But the .40 has the heavier bullet. So I'm confused how this all shakes out in the end.

Is the .40 really more powerful in the 16 inch barrel than a 9mm that may be going 300 fps (or more) faster?
Is it even enough to make any really difference?

Thanks
 

grobin

Blackhawk
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
846
muzzle energy == ((muzzle velocity)²*bullet weight)/450400 so 200² is 40000 quite a difference! The 40 has a relatively smaller case capacity than the 9mm so the 9mm will eventually catch up. A difference of 50 fps MV for the 9mm over the 40 would be enough to make them equal. (Comparing Hornady Critical Duty Ammunition 9mm Luger +P 135 Grain to Hornady Critical Duty Ammunition 40 S&W 175.) Sticking with compriable commercial ammo to be fair.
 

Latest posts

Top