ruger misery!

[triggerhappy]

As you can see I am new to this forum. I joined hoping to get some advice. I purchased a #1 in 30-06 and it is the worst shooting rifle I have ever owned except for the other Rugers I have bought. My #1 shoots 4 inch groups. My model 77 and my 77/22 hornet shoot even worse. What needs to be done to these rifles to make them shoot?? I thought if I came here soneone could help before I just give up on Ruger altogether.

My luck with their revolvers is just as bad, but I will save that for the section on revolvers.

 

[patrickjames]

I don't think all of them can be bad. What brand of guns do you shoot well? What type of scope are you useing? Not trying to be a smart A, maybe it's your ability.

 

[Heliman]

From time to time I have had Rugers that didn't shoot particularily well, but the same can be said for the other brands of firearms.

IMO your experience is very coincidental and not the norm for Rugers or other firearms for that matter.

It may be that some of your problems are ammo related as well. Let someone else shoot your guns and see what happens. Don't give up until you do some experimenting!

Dave

 

[triggerhappy]

Thanks for the replies. First let me say I have model 70s, 700s and some Sakos. I have no other single shots and always wanted a #1. Actually I was told that they were not known for accuracy, and that would be ok but I never dreamed that meant 4 inch groups. In the meantime I bought a 77 in 243, and the 77 22 hornet. The hornet actually shot worse than 4 inches. I had the stock glassed and re barreled with a douglas barrel, and now on a good day it will only shoot about 2 inches. The model 77 is also terrible. These are all scoped with Leupold scopes. I was just wondering how many others have had this same problem. Unless I can find some common problem I guess I am finished with Ruger. By the way I have a Savage 110 that shoots under an inch with almost any ammo, but man is it ugly. I have never fired factory ammo in any of these rifles. I have handloaded for many years. Any one have any suggestions? Thanks

 

[mrbumps]

I have heard the 2 piece bolt can be an issue with the 77/22. Connecticut Precision works on those. There is some info on their website:

http://www.ct-precision.com/ruger77.html

 

[Lloyd Smale]

Rugers are definately more hit and miss then a rem, savage or a winchester for accuracy. Especially some of the older tang saftey 77s and #1s. Ive been fortunate in the #1 buying ive done. Ive owned 6 now and only one a 1a in 757 was poor but ive had a number of 77s that went on the block because they wouldnt shoot. I remember back in the 70s when finding a good 77 was almost rare. I just sent a rl in 257 roberts back to ruger because it would do about 3 inch at a 100 with its best load and they told me that was within there accuracy standards. can you believe that. Ive got 3030 winchesters that do better then that with open sights!

 

[T.A. WORKMAN]

triggerhappy,
If you are through with those Rugers does that mean you will be selling them?
Terry

 

[luvs2hunt62]

I have never fired factory ammo in any of these rifles. I have handloaded for many years. Any one have any suggestions? Thanks


I would try some factory ammo just for a benchline,. I had a little problem with my #1 in 22-250, but I tried a few different loads and now it shoots well under an inch.

 

[Chief 101]

I for one certainly don't blame you for being disappointed, tho I had a 77 that wouldn't shoot under 2" I am fortunate enough to say the first one I got in 243 shot well under moa with most any carefully assembled handloads. I did hunt with the poor shooting 77 a couple of years as the first 2 shots were always consistent. On the other hand I have seen and owned some Ruger 44mag revolvers that would outshoot your #1. I own a Savage varminter that will outshoot a good looking gun any day. I have found that the Ruger rifles I have owned to be more temperamental to shoot than other brands of rifles such as 700's and 70's. For a hunter I use the Rem 700, for a collectible I prefer the Ruger.
Chief aka Maxx Load

 

[Quattroclick]

My 375 H&H #1 was mediocre shooting groups in the 2" range with the first reloads I shot. With a powder change only, the groups opened up to 5" plus with horrible vertical stringing! I think that the #1s are somewhat more load sensitive than most guns.

I have a 77 in 308 that shoots very well for a light barreled gun, averages around 1.5" and close to 1" with loads it likes. My 77/22 shoots well for a sporter rifle. I get .5" groups with the ammo it likes at 50 yards. There is lots of good advise on these forums for simple things to tighten up groups on a ruger.

 

[Cracker-American]

I own two 77's. Both tang safty. The .243, bought new in 1979 shoots very well. The .270 bought used in 1986 shoots poor. But to its credit the .270 has killed just one hell of a lot of game. Both have Leopold base with Ruger rings and Leopold scopes.

My point is even with poor grouping, 2-3", that rifle can still achieve minute of deer neck.

 

[Pal Val]

Welcome to the forum! You asked for advice, and here's my twopence: If I bought three rifles from the same company and all turned out bad, and suppossedly some bad revolvers, too, I would keep it to myself. Nobody brags of doing bad business.

In my day, I have bought my share of firearms that did not meet my expectations. I simply got rid of them quietly. Nobody shows up at the parade riding a lame horse.

I think...

 

[Paul B]

I don't know where you live, nor do I know how competent a shot you are, no insult intended, but I would like to shoot these bad shooting rifles myself, partly to eliminate the original shooter and to evaluate the guns themselves. I'm not saying I'm all that great a shot but I do have 21 Ruger #1 rifles in various calibers plus a custom .223 "walkabout" gun based on a Ruger #1 action so maybe I think I understand these rifles just a little bit. I have a few M77s too.
I guess Ruger's standards must have dropped a great deal if they now consider a 4" group accurate. I remenber when they said 2" was their standard.
I'll throw a hint at you to try when shooting a #1 from the bench. See if that makes any difference. When shooting off the bench, have the gun on the sandbag or rifle rest if you have one resting with the front of the lever/trigger guard up againt that front bag/rest. It's gonna feel very awkward until you get use to it but that sems to work on most #1's. Another thing you can try is rest the gun on your hand which is resting on the sandbag/rest as if you were shooting from a field postion. Make sure in both ways to try that the read sandbag is in properly place. Sometimes the second method is better, especially on the harder kicking guns like the .375 H&H, .404 Jeffery and .416 Rigby. (Just as me how I know. :lol: ) Needless to say I don't shoot those very much.
As far as I am concerned, Ruger stating that a 4" group is acceptable is NOT acceptable in my book and if I were you I'd raise some hell on that baloney.
Just a thought. I don't know how old your gun is and if it' a red pad gun, it probably has a Wilson barrel. Some were not all that good and some flat out no good. I had one, a 7x57 #1A that had a throat that was way out of spec. It tooh a chamber cast to confirm it and Ruger finally did replace the barrel. It shoots good now. Try this. See if you can seat a bullet far enough out to contact the lands. If the bullet does make contact, we'll have to look at other ideas.

Here is an article that may help, but be advised that any alterations made to the gun will void the warrantee, unwritten as it is.

http://varminthuntinginternational.com/ ... ruger.html


Paul B.

 

[Hank in Indiana]

Of the 5 Ruger rifles I've had only 1 had acceptable accuracy. Four Handi's none, and exceptional accuracy from Remington, Savage, Marlin, and Interarms.

 

[mattsbox99]

That is rough, I have more than 40 Rugers, not a one of them is a poor shooter. My 25/06 No. 1 has very recently printed 1/4" and 1/3" groups without much trouble. Most of my Rugers are completely stock, a few have trigger upgrades. Only one has been steel bedded, not because it needed it, but because a gunsmith wanted to try it.

I'm with the others, you need to get somebody else to shoot them and eliminate the nut behind the trigger.

 

[EVR]

These are always tough threads to post on because nobody knows the ability of the shooter.

Having said that here is my take.

I have always considered Ruger rifles to be "kit guns". When M77MKII's were $399.00 they were the best deal in guns. Best period except for Swedish Husqvarna imports that are no longer.

I rebed every Ruger and I freefloat the barrels, except for one. I've owned one tang safety {a 7x57 my nephew now owns} and shot groundhogs in Kentucky with another, a .220 Swift it was. I own now three 6.5x55's, one .308, one .264 Win Mag and one .270. My son owns a .30-06.

All were accurate. That means all would put five shots into 1 1/4 inches at 100 meters. All will/would put 3 shot groups inside MOA. The .220 Swift would keep 3-shot groups into 1.5 inches at 300 yards. My .264 will keep three shots inside 3 inches at 300 meters {330 yards}. That is pretty accurate. I have a 1000 meter range on the ranch here and can promise you a rifle that will put 3 shots into 3 inches at 300 yards is a keeper. Most...won't.

I like this site because most people here recognise that Rugers are not world-reknowned for accuracy and don't seem to be "worshippers" of the company. That is cool because you don't have to worship a Stillson wrench in order to see its usefulness. Rugers are pipewrenches.

So, my advice for you is to work on those guns. Try rebedding them. All my Rugers like the "box" surrounding and forward of the recoil lug filled with epoxy and bedded thus, with a dab at the rear tang and the barrel, yes, whole barrel free-floated. Just what works for me.

Ruger bolt guns are my favorite bolt guns because they are affordable and I can work on them,. Triggers are "factory-poor" but I can fix that. I will not sell my Rugers. We kill lots of stuff with them. Elk, deer, varmints, butcher stock, and they work. I've killed 9 bear but haven't used a Ruger yet, but should. I wish Ruger chambered an M77MKII in 9.3x62.

The bolt guns are reliable and I like the Mauser/Win 70 type action. I even like my early-MKII push-feed .270.

Revolvers?

Ditto.

I was once a S&W collector but sold my collection and now have some Rugers. They are...solid...w/ crude triggers {learn to work on them or have them properly tuned, they also can be bettered}. We use ours on varmints, butcher stock and grouse. We kill lots of ground squirrels with them and that says a lot for the accuracy of a sixgun. I like them. Cheap but better than a Rossi!

Yeah, you have some problems, but if you like the reliability and handling of the guns, get the bugs worked out and see if the result is to your liking. It is to mine.

 

[triggerhappy]

Welcome to the forum! You asked for advice, and here's my twopence: If I bought three rifles from the same company and all turned out bad, and suppossedly some bad revolvers, too, I would keep it to myself. Nobody brags of doing bad business.

In my day, I have bought my share of firearms that did not meet my expectations. I simply got rid of them quietly. Nobody shows up at the parade riding a lame horse.

I think...

DO WHAT??? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? I dont think so.

 

[triggerhappy]

EVR, Thank you for an intelligent reply. I think I will try bedding the 77, and floating the barrel as you suggested. Not sure on the #1 but I think I will do some more investigating before I give up. Maybe someone here has some #1 modification tips. As far as my ability, well my other rifles shoot great although loads have been worked up and they have had other modifications also. I expect to have to work with the guns, I just didnt expect them to start out so bad. Yes, the revolver are MUCH better than a Rossi.

 

[patrickjames]

As you can see I am new to this forum. I joined hoping to get some advice. I purchased a #1 in 30-06 and it is the worst shooting rifle I have ever owned except for the other Rugers I have bought.

My luck with their revolvers is just as bad

This is the Ruger forum and I assume a lot of folks here buy a lot of Ruger firearms.I know I have bought maybe 5 or so in the last year and don't have anything close to the problems you are having and I don't think others are either. Here is my latest No 1 I bought in the last couple of months.Most of the ruger rifle's I have bought in the last 10 years shoot at least this good.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

as to some advice ill give you this. Ive been shooting 06s for 40 years and ive yet to see one that didnt shoot well with a max loaded of 4831 and a 150 grain flat based sierra. Ill go one step further and tell you to buy 4831 short cut. 4831 is a tad on the slow side for a 150 in an o6 and you will give up a few fps over something like 4350 but that load will usually shoot a bit better. Various 06s ive owned shoot other loads a tad better but that load willl shoot very good in all of them. Ive killed a truck load of deer with that load to boot.

 

[four70nitro]

My advice on the No. 1 is to remove the forearm, resting on sandbags on the front of the action and shoot it for group. If it shoots better the problem is in the forearm, if it doesn't then you know you have to look elsewhere.

Dave

 

[RustyD]

I have come to the conclusion that Ruger's Stink and will no longer get my money. A mini 14 and a 77Hornet both are disapointing and not what you expect when you buy a rifle, especially NEW.

 

[Paul B]

My advice on the No. 1 is to remove the forearm, resting on sandbags on the front of the action and shoot it for group. If it shoots better the problem is in the forearm, if it doesn't then you know you have to look elsewhere.

Dave

That'll work. make sure only the tip of the forarm hanger is on the bag though or it will affect the way the spring works slowing the hammer fall down. That can cause either erratic ignition or a miss fire. Been there and done that.
Paul B.

 

[Pal Val]

Do what? Quit the whining. Be happy that some people here are very tolerant, and actually gave you good advice in spite of your attitude.

I said enough.

 

[triggerhappy]

Thanks for all the great advice. I talked to Ruger today and asked about their accuracy standards. The # 1 is 1.5 inches at 50 yds. The 77/22hornet is 1.25 inches at 50 yards. It was a dissapointing conversation. I was surprised it was so poor, but it is what it is, and at least I know where they stand. That is a shame because they have some desireable guns. I think Rusty D has the right idea.

As far as you mr pal val. Since you seem to be when it comes to firearms . You just might learn something. With MIGHT being the key word. All these nice people have to be tolerant to put up with .

 

[four70nitro]

Don't rest the rifle on the hanger while shooting it with the forearm removed -- rest the front of the action on the bag so that only the action is touching the bag. Don't squeeze the lever closed while shooting, let it simply sit in position locked into the trigger guard. Then shoot some groups and you will be able to determine whether the problem is in the forearm attachment/bedding or something else.

There are a few "other" possibilities -- the shooter, the ammo, the scope mounts, the scope, the chamber, the barrel.

Someone else here has already suggested having a second person shoot the rifle to see if they get the same results. If they do, then it is not likely the shooter.

If the scope rings are properly snugged to the scope and to the rib, it is not likely them unless you have two different heights of rings.

The scope can be eliminated by switching another scope onto the rifle and shooting groups to determine if the results are the same. Scopes, even good ones, do go bad from time to time -- nearly always without any warning. Not a common problem, but it does happen.

If you have only shot hand-loads, buy a box or two of good commercial ammo. I've had very good accuracy with Federal Premium in some of my No. 1's. My .375 H&H especially seems to like Federal Premium ammo. Or (insert your favorite brand of ammo here).

If you have eliminated the forearm, the shooter, the ammo, the scope (and mounts), then it just about has to be something to do with the barrel (and/or chamber).

Once you work your way through the process of elimination and know where the problem is you can work to resolve it instead of shot-gunning the problem and hope you find something that works.

Dave

 

[four70nitro]

Just one more comment -- I own a lot of No. 1's (not nearly as many as some here) and have NEVER owned one that wouldn't shoot well. I've always felt my .220 Swift was amazingly accurate and has always shot better than I could. I'd say my .375 H&H is probably the least accurate and I can shoot it inside two inches at 100 yards nearly anytime.

I have never had to go to extremes to get any of them to shoot though there have been a couple that showed distinct preferences for specific handloads. I can say the same about any number of bolt action rifles from a variety of manufacturers I have worked with.

Don't get too frustrated and give up too soon. Just work your way through the process of elimination methodically and you will find the solution.

Dave

 

[four70nitro]

Yet another thought -- your original message doesn't indicate whether you bought the No. 1 new or used. If you got it used it may have a really dirty barrel. If it is new, a good cleaning won't hurt it either.....

 

[Paul B]

"Don't rest the rifle on the hanger while shooting it with the forearm removed -- "

I disagree. The late Frank de Haas (AKA Mr. Single Shot)in his book on single shot rifles states that this is one test to see if the problem is is the forearm. In the section of Ruger #1 rifles, he also shows three ways to accurize a poorly shooting rifle. I did one of his tricks on my #1B in .300 Win. mag. and brought from a 1.25" gun to a .375" gun with one load, and most other running around an inch.
You can go to EABCO and get a Hicks Accurizer but they're a PITA to install and you have to remove a lot of wood. I've done exactly one of those things and in the long run they do help.
For those who are interested the de Haas book title is:

MR. SINGLE SHOT'S GUNSMITHING IDEA BOOK.

Lots of interesting stuff in there for the single shot buff.You may have to do the used book scene to find a copy as it may now be out of print.

Paul B.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

thats great for you but what if its me that buys the gun you dumped and kept your mouth shut.

Welcome to the forum! You asked for advice, and here's my twopence: If I bought three rifles from the same company and all turned out bad, and suppossedly some bad revolvers, too, I would keep it to myself. Nobody brags of doing bad business.

In my day, I have bought my share of firearms that did not meet my expectations. I simply got rid of them quietly. Nobody shows up at the parade riding a lame horse.

I think...