Ruger 77/50 Muzzle Loader.....misfires

[Dantforth]

No, not due to poor ignition! I took mine to the range today to make sure it was still spot on as ML deer season opens on Monday. The first CCI #11 percussion cap did not fire. I had the click but no ignition. So I cocked the bolt again and again got a click only. I looked at the cap and it did not look like it had been struck. So, I cocked the bolt once more and it went "BANG". So, has anyone had a similar experience? Possible causes? I did use two caps after this and both caps fired.... and, yes, the nipple was clear and when the cap fired the rifle worked as usual.
David

 

[rugerjunkie]

Im far from an expert but I'd check the bolt for obstructions not letting the firing pin move its full range. Dirt or crud built up or too heavy of an oil or grease gumming up in cold weather?

 

[rugnelli]

Agree with the previous post. Usually the interior of the bolt gets fouled from use and forgotten. If it is not too bad a couple of firings can break things loose so it functions. If that is the case you definitely will want to take it apart and give it a good cleaning. This is normal in a Remington 700ML but I don't know the specifics of the Ruger 77/50.

 

[Black Fly]

I experienced a similar problem when I got mine, years ago. Haven't had it in a long time. In addition to the bolt face, Make sure the cap is pushed all the way on. I also found that old caps that sit in your coat pocket all winter can give a little less reliable ignition, as well. Good luck,
Bfly

 

[ndcowboy]

On occasion if the cap isn't seated well, the first squeeze of the trigger seats the primer. I make sure to press the cap on really tight on my 77/50.

 

[gramps]

Sometimes a spent cap will get stuck up in the hammer of my Traditions. I don't know how your ML is set up, I also concur with setting the cap on tightly, and using fresh caps. Good luck.
gramps

 

[Dantforth]

Thanks for all of the help here. I will disassemble and clean the bolt later today. I really don't think it is a dirty bolt causing the problem as I had it apart last year. I will try a couple of caps before loading it to make sure it is firing. I wondered if I hadn't gotten the bolt assembled properly but it did fire the last two caps OK.

 

[Dantforth]

So, here is the poop as best I can figure. I have been test firing caps here. It seems that if I just cycle the bolt and fire it does not ignite. If I cycle the bolt and then put the safety on and off it does fire/ignite. So, I am down to just enough caps to take hunting tomorrow and will not be test firing again. Is there anyone who is familiar with the bolt who can tell me what, if anything, occurs when you put the safety on and off after cycling the bolt? Frustrating. Not the best way to be heading into the woods. Dave

 

[Dantforth]

Is my bolt assembled incorrectly? It is not apparent to me how it could be. The difference between my rifle and the second one in the photos posted here is the shroud at the front of the bolt, which turns with the bolt, is in the nine o'clock position when the bolt is closed while the other rifle has it in the twelve o'clock position. My rifle with scope, the other with rings only.

 

[ndcowboy]

I just pulled mine out of the safe to look. Your bolt is not lined up correctly in that top picture. The "shroud" for lack of better words at the front of the bolt needs to come most of the way down to keep junk, gunk, and crud out of the action. It is like the bolt isn't turning correctly when you close the handle.

 

[Dantforth]

Thanks ND. I think that is the problem as well. I may call Ruger or maybe just disassemble the bolt again to see if I can change it. Dave

 

[Dantforth]

Update! Disassembly of the bolt showed it cannot be changed. I contacted Ruger customer support. I received a reply asking for a photo and giving me an e-mail address to send it to. When I sent the e-mail it came back that it was undeliverable.....([email protected]). They also stated that they no longer support this rifle so I could send it in for disposal and buy another Ruger rifle at a reduced rate. They do not realize I am Canadian and cannot send anything there. Although there is a large market here for Ruger firearms there is no customer support as there is in the USA. I am calling today but do not expect much help. David......just checked Numrich. Part is $16.50 Shipping is $41.50!!!!!

 

[wildwilly]

There are two different bolt shrouds The top gun is the older style the bottom is the newer style.The cap has to be pushed on really hard or you will have misfires.The easiest fix and end to misfires is to change to a musket cap breech Numrich has them.

 

[Dantforth]

Well, thanks for the input here. I suspected something of that nature was the problem. So, Ruger assembled the first bolts incorrectly and later changed them to fix the problem. It is hard to understand why there had not been a recall? I really don't want to change to a musket cap and, if that cures problems, why hasn't Ruger provided them? Another difficulty is that Numrich may be like most other suppliers in the USA and refuse to send any part to Canada. I believe your State Dept. requires a permit to export anything to Canada. Frustrating to say the least. I will check with Numrich though and thanks for the information.

 

[wildwilly]

I don't think they installed them wrong.I think they changed them to protect the finish on the scope if you don't put tape or something on your scope the old style is hard on your scope finish.Do some searching there are posts about stoning the nipple part of the breech plug so the cap fits better or push the cap on firmly its not all that uncommon in cap guns to have to use some force to seat the cap.

 

[Dantforth]

Oh, I think they made a mistake in the engineering of the bolt. Why else would there be a shroud on the bolt but to cover the flash from the nipple and cap? What purpose does the shroud serve when it ends up in the nine o'clock position where it does zero? I expect more from Ruger! Instead of recalling all of the early bolts and replacing them with proper ones they discontinue the rifle and now say the do not support it any longer. I really like the rifle....the size, the accuracy and the looks. I do not want to trade it in for something else. I may take the bolt body to my local machine shop to see how difficult it would be to change the position of the shroud. I will also buy the replacement musket cap nipple. I do intend to make the call to Ruger. I will report end results here. David

 

[rugerjunkie]

David,

Try these guys and see if they have any parts available. They are in Edmonton. I have ordered from them before and they are a pretty decent outfit.

http://www.westerngunparts.com


Good luck
Jeff

 

[Dantforth]

Well, I called Ruger customer service and got re-directed. Apparently I needed to talk to someone in the department which deals with international markets. So, I talked to Carla. She gave me the name of the company here in Canada which deals with Ruger warranty issues for firearms purchased in Canada. I will not bore you with the details. Suffice to say Ruger treats it's customers in the USA differently than it's international customers. Be very happy you reside in the USA when you have an issue with your Ruger firearm. I will deal with my rifle issues myself and be happy. I am a Ruger collector on a small scale and will continue but with a much fuller understanding of the rules. It was all governed by the fact that the 77/50 rifles are no longer supported.

 

[P89DC]

Pretty sure if an American in the USA calls with the same issue you're having they get the same answer you were given the first time you call Ruger CS.

 

[Dantforth]

P89DC.....I agree. But, any ordinary product issues would, in my opinion, be much easier to resolve from the USA just for the shipping issues. I will try to be optimistic. Truly, most of my Ruger firearms probably fall into that void "no longer supported" as I have a love for the old models. I have book marked the Canadian site which deals with warranty issues for Ruger.

 

[daveg.inkc]

one thing to try,is scotch brite or steel wool the nipple. the cap is not going on far enough. Ive had this happen before. I changed to 209 conversion on one rifle. the other is stock. my favorite load is 100 grains pyrodex select and hornady 300 gr XTP.

 

[Dantforth]

Thanks for sharing Dave. I will change to a musket cap nipple this winter to try that. My load is eighty grains of Swiss FFFG and a power belt bullet. David

 

[44rugerr]

R & P Muzzleloading has the 209 conversion for 59.95.

 

[Dantforth]

Thanks 44rugerr. I have made up my mind to get the musket cap conversion. It is such a lovely piece that I need to have it working properly. I am waiting until we head to California for the winter to buy it there so I can avoid the plus $50.00 shipping fees. David

 

[daveg.inkc]

the difference on the bolts, early ones were open. That let gas from cap cover my scope! I called Ruger and they sent me a new style. Its open to see if nipple is capped. New style lets gas out side.

 

[Dantforth]

Well, I was hoping that Ruger's great customer service would do that with mine. All they told me was that they have no parts and no longer support the 77/50. I suspect they would rather forget their mistakes and move on.