Ruger 500

[Anonymous]

What are anyones thoughts on Ruger creating a single action 500 mag?

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Well the .480 Super Redhawk / Alaskan didn't do so well for them. I doubt they will be trying a 500 any time soon. There are custom big bore 5 shot Ruger single-actions out there if you are willing to pay the price. :D

http://www.gunblast.com/500Linebaugh.htm

...Jimbo

 

[BlkHawk73]

People are wanting bigger and badder for whatever reason. :roll: The 480 was overshadowed by the 460 and 500 from S&W so what can be done to create a bigger and badder cartridge than that for a handgun?
There's gunsmiths making .50's on Rugers so if you really need one...

 

[Axehandle]

Lots of 50 bore customs out there... I have a Gallagher and a pair of Reeder 50 bore single actions. Hard to beat Gary Reeder's prices and delivery schedule.. For a factory 50 bore single action there are the Freedom Arms 500WE and Magnum Research 50AE...

 

[Onty]

What are anyones thoughts on Ruger creating a single action 500 mag?

:D IMHO, 500 is ideal cartridge for those who want revolver ENOUGH for defense or to hunt anything in North America, yet without tremendous muzzle blast and violent recoil produced by 454 and 475. Of course, these could be loaded down, but 500 has heavier bullet with larger meplat.

Well the .480 Super Redhawk / Alaskan didn't do so well for them. I doubt they will be trying a 500 any time soon.

http://www.gunblast.com/500Linebaugh.htm

...Jimbo

Right cartridge in wrong revolver. Considering steel they use on 480 and 454 SRH (.040”, .060” wall thickness between cylinders), they could make 6-shooter 480 and 454 in SBH without touching frame opening. As for 500, 5-bore cylinder is a must, no other way around.

NOW, if they make 500 5-bore SA, they could make also 5-bore family, including some convertibles, like 454/45, 475/480 and 50AE/500 magnum.

I bet that they will be flooded with orders.

 

[s4s4u]

What are anyones thoughts on Ruger creating a single action 500 mag?

Being they somehow didn't see fit to offer a SA in the .480, which would have sold well, I highly doubt you'll see anything any bigger.

 

[Lee Martin]

A six-shot 454 on a standard Blackhawk would be a hand-grenade. It may hold for a while, but even with proprietary stainless, you're going get stress fractures over time. 60,000 PSI with the bolt notch over the side-wall isn't smart (remember, Redhawks have offset notches).

 

[CraigC]

I'd like to see them offer a .500S&W 1.4", rather than the full-length .500S&W. FAR more practical than the big X-frames, even if only offered in the Super Redhawk. I'd buy one, but I still plan on having a Bisley built in the chambering.

 

[Onty]

A six-shot 454 on a standard Blackhawk would be a hand-grenade. It may hold for a while, but even with proprietary stainless, you're going get stress fractures over time. 60,000 PSI with the bolt notch over the side-wall isn't smart (remember, Redhawks have offset notches).

I agree, you are right about SA 6-shot 454. As for outside wall, even as is with same steel as on SRH should be strong enough. I forgot that SRH has larger cylinder dia than NMBH, that makes thicker wall under notch. However, NMBH has offset notches too, I got it checked on CMM machine. I did not check SRH cylinder so I do not know is offset same on both, or SRH has a larger one. If the offsets are the same, and cylinder diameters too, I do not see any problem with NM chambered in 6-shot 454.

But, any way you slice it, 5-shot is far better choice in both revolvers for 45 and up.

BTW, since you and your dad are very familiar whit making custom cylinders for NMBH, why don’t you make 6 and 5 shot chambered and blank stainless cylinders? You will sell tons of them. As far as I know, nobody makes them at reasonable cost.

 

[Lee Martin]

Thanks for the suggestion, but we don't have an FFL and my day job pays pretty well.

 

[temmi]

I hope this makes some sort of since...

It’s a niche market and a small one at that…

If the 480 could not make it IMO there is no good reason to tool up for the 500S&W much less make their own .500.

If they need a big bore the 454 or the 480 are as good as they get… if not stick with the 45Colt or 44Mag.

 

[BearHawk 357]

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I feel that Ruger would be better served to produce a 460 S&W Mag over the 500. Here is why: Ruger already makes guns that are chambered in the other rounds that can be shot out of the 460. This is attractive to those who already own these other firearms. Plus, the 460 can be loaded down to mild 45 colt levels. The 460 is a very versitile cartridge. I would bet that if Ruger made a gun in the 460 that it's sales would more than tripple the sales of the 480 in no time flat.
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[Onty]

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I feel that Ruger would be better served to produce a 460 S&W Mag over the 500. Here is why: Ruger already makes guns that are chambered in the other rounds that can be shot out of the 460. This is attractive to those who already own these other firearms. Plus, the 460 can be loaded down to mild 45 colt levels. The 460 is a very versitile cartridge. I would bet that if Ruger made a gun in the 460 that it's sales would more than tripple the sales of the 480 in no time flat.
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See http://www.magnumresearch.com/Expand.as ... =BFR460SW7 . Not sure if this is correct picture, cylinder looks too long for 460.

 

[Seancass]

Onty is right, the .460 takes a much longer cylinder. The BFR is actually a little extra long, but it allows for longer bullets too.

If Ruger won't produce a gun using frames and calibers they already make, i can't imagine them designing a new frame just to make a gun already made and slowly sold by Magnum Research.

On the other hand, i see no good reason why a distributor can't order a run of 5 shot .454's or .480's. I think in the slightly less than mass produced market, they would sell like crazy!

In other news, Where do we sign a petition to get Lee Martin fired from his day job?

 

[Axehandle]

I don't know guys.... We seem to be a much smaller group than we like to think... I'm still hearing about Stainless Steel Flattop 44 Specials on the shelf in gun stores and there are only 1000 of them....

 

[s4s4u]

I'm still hearing about Stainless Steel Flattop 44 Specials on the shelf in gun stores and there are only 1000 of them....

If they had the Bisley frame, there would be one less out there.

 

[Rclark]

We seem to be a much smaller group than we like to think...

I am a think'n your right. I for one certainly don't want/need anything bigger than .45. .44Mag (and .45 Colt loaded to it's potential) is already a thumper which will take care of anything on the North American continent. I am sure most of us don't see the 'point' of bigger wrist benders :) . Get a big bore rifle if you need a real big thumper..... Anyway, sounds like a 'custom' option to me :) .

As for the .44 Specials still on the shelves.... I've yet to see one 'on the shelf'. Course I was only in three gun shops. Two here and one out of town (just today) . If I pop for one, it will be blued though.....

 

[Seancass]

Countering my own post a little:

BFR sells a lot fewer guns than you might think. Since they are very similar to what a 5 shot Blackhawk would be, perhaps Ruger is looking at their meager sales a realising just how small the market is. I think the Ruger gun would be very similar and very close in price. The Ruger name would get them a few more sales, but it is still a small market.

I also don't need a caliber larger than .45, or even .43 but i sure want one. And a Blackhawk size gun would appeal to me more than the slighly larger BFR. And rugers come with real grips and not whatever peices of junk magnum research calls grips, that is my biggest problem with the BFR.

 

[Lee Martin]

5-shot 454s on Blackhawks are safe and durable....you just have to build them right. Here's one I converted back in '96 (I know I posted this picture many times before, but for those that haven't seen it):

To date its digested over 5,000 rounds, split between top-end and mid-level HS6 loads. No worse for wear and it feels as tight as the day I built it. The conversion includes:

1) Oversized bolt custom fit to the frame. The cylinder notches are cut within a half-thousandth of the bolt

2) Cylinder is 17-4PH, Rockwell 41

3) Cylinder was matched to the frame (ie, no endshake)

4) Chambers are cut 0.001" over the sized case; throats honed to 0.4525"

5) 1:22, slow twist Pac Nor barrel; small free-bore past the cone which is 11 degrees

6) Front sight double-set screwed into the barrel

7) Belt Mountain oversized pin; matched to the cylinder and set-screwed.

Not all of these are required to make a safe 454 Blackhawk. Combined though, they equal a gun that'll handle 60,000 PSI for years on end. Now Ruger could easily do everything noted above....the thing is, it would be a custom shop proposition (something they don't do). If they did, you know it would cost $1,000 or up....and at that price, we're getting into used FA territory. And no matter how hard you try, you can't make a Blackhawk as good as an 83.

Then you have Magnum Research BFRs. At $800, their 454 model isn't flying off the shelves. Their production line is set-up primarily for 5-shot models though so they can knock batches out when needed. Ruger being a mass production company can't "flip the switch" as fast to do limited runs. Especially when that run would be 5-shots.

So don't hold your breath guys. I'd be very surprised if we ever see a five-hole 454 Blackhawk.

 

[Onty]

I don't know guys.... We seem to be a much smaller group than we like to think... I'm still hearing about Stainless Steel Flattop 44 Specials on the shelf in gun stores and there are only 1000 of them....

Nothing wrong with 44 Special, but I did not see many folks looking for this revolver, and suddenly appeared out of nowhere, even Bisley version. Who asked for LCR and 327? On the other hand, as far as I could remember, EVERYBODY is talking and dreaming about 5-bore 45, 454, 480, 475 and 500. Only very high cost of custom one is what's prohibiting most of us from getting one (or two). I would suggest to Ruger to make sure that quality is high and even 50% higher selling price will make 5-bore selling like nothing else. Just look what S&W had done with 460 and 500. Yep, I tried S&W 500, fun to shoot, but I did not think a single second of getting one. For that money, I would grab any time GOOD quality 5-bore Bisley in 45-500, and wouldn’t even look at big S&W. Just look what keeps busy Bowen, Clements and others, and check what is waiting period.

 

[Denny]

A soultion to a non exsisting problem. How much "power" is really needed if I am going after something that big I want a rifle.

 

[Onty]

Countering my own post a little:

BFR sells a lot fewer guns than you might think. Since they are very similar to what a 5 shot Blackhawk would be, perhaps Ruger is looking at their meager sales a realising just how small the market is. I think the Ruger gun would be very similar and very close in price. The Ruger name would get them a few more sales, but it is still a small market.

I also don't need a caliber larger than .45, or even .43 but i sure want one. And a Blackhawk size gun would appeal to me more than the slighly larger BFR. And rugers come with real grips and not whatever peices of junk magnum research calls grips, that is my biggest problem with the BFR.

Ditto about BFR size (and weight). Also, no Bisley grip. I called their custom shop and guy just told me to forget about Bisley grip. As far as I could see, most of custom 5-bores are Bisley configuration, not without reason.

FYI, I called yesterday a manufacturer of aftermarket cylinders for NMBH, and asked about stainless ones. Owner said that he does not like stainless and this is his shop and will be no stainless cylinders; end of story. I wish if I have enough money to start aftermarket cylinders for NMBH, but using better steels than 416 and 4140…

5-shot 454s on Blackhawks are safe and durable....you just have to build them right. Here's one I converted back in '96 (I know I posted this picture many times before, but for those that haven't seen it)…Not all of these are required to make a safe 454 Blackhawk. Combined though, they equal a gun that'll handle 60,000 PSI for years on end. Now Ruger could easily do everything noted above....the thing is, it would be a custom shop proposition (something they don't do). If they did, you know it would cost $1,000 or up....and at that price, we're getting into used FA territory. And no matter how hard you try, you can't make a Blackhawk as good as an 83.

Then you have Magnum Research BFRs. At $800, their 454 model isn't flying off the shelves. Their production line is set-up primarily for 5-shot models though so they can knock batches out when needed. Ruger being a mass production company can't "flip the switch" as fast to do limited runs. Especially when that run would be 5-shots.

So don't hold your breath guys. I'd be very surprised if we ever see a five-hole 454 Blackhawk.

VERY impressive. BTW, you did not mention opening frame for larger cilinder dia?

You have pointed a number of important issues, however, being in manufacturing industry, I know how flexible new machining centers are. I have no idea what kind of machinery Ruger has, but the only way to be competitive is to have modern, high productivity machines. And most of them are designed to have very short period of time switching from one product to another one. Switching from 6-bore cylinder to 5-bore one will be just press on the button.

My point is; if Ruger could setup production for 327, I do not see as a big deal of making the same for 5-bore NMBH. And as I mentioned, 50% increase in selling price will cover all additional expenses, even if higher quality production is established, and make some healthy profit margins.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

My apoolgy for repeating this, but this is how 5-bore will look with flutes

 

[Onty]

I'm still hearing about Stainless Steel Flattop 44 Specials on the shelf in gun stores and there are only 1000 of them....

If they had the Bisley frame, there would be one less out there.

Not stainless, just blue http://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx? ... exclusives . They list 4-5/8, 5-1/2 and 7-1/2

 

[Lee Martin]

No need to open the frame window on a Blackhawk. 5-shot cylinders out of 17-4 provide more than enough tensile strength for 454.

 

[Onty]

No need to open the frame window on a Blackhawk. 5-shot cylinders out of 17-4 provide more than enough tensile strength for 454.

Thanks Lee, what you are making is the art. If I ever hit a jackpot, a nice machine shop, including Hardringe machines, will be on the top of my list.

 

[BB Rvlr]

I would like to see bigger but not necessarily badder... A .50 Special of some sort in a factory revolver. Preferably a single action.

Now you have my $.02 worth.

 

[maxpress]

is someone slipping animals steroids?
back in the 50s and sixties the .357 would "kill anything that needed killing in the lower 48" then comes the 44 mag and everyone laughs at guys running around in the forest with "little bore" 357s. now the 454 460 500 comeout and people tell me "ya dont wanna get caught by somthing mean with that little thing.
i guess to each there own. i dont think i will buy anything bigger than a .44 in a handgun unless some big reptile aliens come down and start stomping us.

 

[TiteGroups]

After shooting a couple 500 smiths in their easy shooting X frames, I hate to think of the recoil of a 500 smith in a blackhawk style revolver. The 629 makes .44 mags feel very tame relative to the same loads in a SBH. The recoil of 500 smiths in their large frames is enough.

 

[Tommy Kelly]

I have a S&W 500 with the 4"bbl and also have a 454 alaskan both are great shooting pistols. I prefer the short bbl's I shoot them better than I do longer ones. My 500 shoots smooth even with the 700 gr. cast bullets. My 454 is a lot less recoil than I was expecting but I have only shot ww white box ammo in it. It must be a whimpy load because the recoil isn't much more than 357's in my sp101. I had a desert eagle 50ae that recoiled a lot worse than either of these pistols.

 

[Onty]

How about more civilized manners; more politeness, respect and tolerance for others and their views?

We all know very well what can be done with 270, 30-06, 7 magnum, etc. and how far, using premium bullets and placing them in right place. We are talking about 2700 to almost 3000 foot pounds of muzzle energy. 300 and 338 magnums are even more powerful. Now, 500 S&W develops less energy than 25-06, 454 less than 243, so what’s big deal? Yet nobody in his right mind suggests to those rifle hunters to check their meals to make sure that somebody didn’t put animal steroids or even hallucinating drugs. If somebody doesn’t like big bore revolvers, or even scared to fire one, sorry, there are others who do that on regular basis. I do not like heavy kicking rifles like 338 Lapua or 338-378, yet some folks are every second week on the range. So what! Also, I do not like bulkiness and weight of 500 S&W, but my friend does and that’s his choice. I am not even thinking of trashing them for shooting those rifles and revolvers.

As for large caliber revolvers, yes, there are hunters who want all the power they could squeeze out of revolver. However, there is another “school”, and to understand that one, here are series of articles http://www.customsixguns.com/writings.htm for all those who are not familiar with this concept of large bore handgun.

Regarding five bore 500 in NMBH, this is bit different approach than 454 or 475. We all know how powerful is 44 Magnum lunching 300-330 grains at 1200+ feet per second. And, such load will go thru even large animal lengthwise. Broad shot on 100 yds will go right thru. Shooting such load from revolver with well designed grip is no big deal. However, pressure in those loads is in 38.000-39.000 cup range, and with such muzzle blast just one shot without hearing protection is enough to cause very serious and permanent hearing damage. But firing same bullet from 500 requires considerable less pressure. If same power level could be obtained in 45 Colt at 28.000 cup, I wouldn’t be surprised if 500 needs just arround 20.000 cup, and that is heluva difference for eardrums if shot has to be fired in hurry in case of animal attack. Also, larger caliber allows larger meplat dia without affecting stability of the bullet beyond 25 yds. Few of my friends know first hand what happens when wounded wild boar charges. Now, one already got 44 Taurus, another one is looking for 5.5” Redhawk. They will LOVE to get one of those revolvers with 475 or 500 bore, but they are in Europe so for them only reasonable option is 44.

So, if you like 500 SBH or Bisley, and can afford custom one, go for it. For all of us with average income, let keep asking Ruger to make a move and make 480 and 500 SBH and Bisley, they wouldn’t make mistake.

How about approaching Acusport, Davidson’s or Lypsey’s and asking them to organize some sort of advance purchasing by taking orders, sort of Group Buy (GB)? These folks http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=53 do that on regular basis. Distributor can list what they are going to purchase, potential buyers can put deposit, and after list is complete, they place order, and about 20-25% on top of original number. This is how I purchased copy of #503 H&G mould. GB was over, but I contacted manufacturer, and sure enough, he made more than was original order.

I would like to see bigger but not necessarily badder... A .50 Special of some sort in a factory revolver. Preferably a single action.

Now you have my $.02 worth.

I agree 100%.