Thanks Fred but my revolver hasn't made it yet. I just felt tinman was being a little bit of a ****. I just joined this forum but it isn't my first online forum. There is that type in all of them. I see you use the large size? Have you tried the smaller one? I hunt out of a tree with 90% of my shots on deer being within 15 yards. I would however like to stretch my range out to 50 yards or so. I have taken one buck with my old taurus raging bull. I finally decided to step up to the ruger bisley hunter.