Redhawk - Leading Advice, Please

[Iron Mike Golf]

I picked up a used, 25 year old RH (stainless hunter in .44 mag) a month ago. It's my first revolver and I have put a few hundred rounds though it and have been enjoying it very much. I plan on hunting whitetail with it this season.

I bought some 245 grain LSWC-BB from a local caster. I shot 50 of these last night over 19.5 grains of 2400. I got a good bit of leading. I figure between the bevel base and the 21-22 BNH that is expected.

While cleaning, though, I noticed markings going across the lands. I don't have a borescope, but from my (middle-aged) naked eye, I am thinking maybe tool marks?

I am at least the third owner and have no idea the round count on the barrel. The chamber throats seem OK, based on what I have read about the "finger tip" test. The revolver shoots just fine. Best group so far is 1.75 inch at 110 yards using Speer 210 Gold Dots over 27.5 gr Win 296. I have fired about 300 rounds of XTP and GDHP rounds working up loads.

What do I do to reduce leading? Softer alloy? Shoot a mess of jacketed rounds first to try to smooth things out? I am reluctant to hand lap the bore.

Please advise.

Thanks.

 

[GP100man]

First I`d slug the bore, measure the throats then the boolits .

Bore should be 429 , throats the same or .001 larger then boolits .001 over that !!

Are ya getting leading in the first 1" or all the way???

When ya run a jag with a tite fittin patch down the bore does it get titer when ya reach the forcing cone ????

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

I get leading from the forcing cone to the muzzle. Maybe not the last 1/8 inch or so at the muzzle.

Patch does not get tighter as I get close to the forcing cone.

Need to get some sinkers and slug the bore tomorrow.

 

[FrontSite]

I get leading from the forcing cone to the muzzle.

Something is big time wrong ... If the gun specs ck out ok then I would
guess that the lead is really not that hard (21-22 BHN). If your drivin the
bullet at 1500 fps and its only 15 BHN .. that would explain it. Lasercast
are rated at 24 BHN but they say 1100 fps tops. I've got some Penn's that
are rated 1600 fps. 22 BHN would be really hard for a "local caster" ... not
that its not possible... my $.02

FrontSite

 

[mattsbox99]

If I got <2" groups at 110 yards and I'd never even look at another lead bullet!

Lapping won't hurt anything, but I think your bullets are too small for the bore.

 

[FrontSite]

If I got <2" groups at 110 yards and I'd never even look at another lead bullet!

True !

FrontSite

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

I get leading from the forcing cone to the muzzle.

Something is big time wrong ... If the gun specs ck out ok then I would
guess that the lead is really not that hard (21-22 BHN). If your drivin the
bullet at 1500 fps and its only 15 BHN .. that would explain it. Lasercast
are rated at 24 BHN but they say 1100 fps tops. I've got some Penn's that
are rated 1600 fps. 22 BHN would be really hard for a "local caster" ... not
that its not possible... my $.02

FrontSite

Their site claims 21-22 BHN. But looking at casting references for the alloy they use, it ought to be around 18 BHN, if air cooled. And his casting machine uses air cooling, as far as I can tell.

Next trip to the range will be with these bullets slowed down to 1000-1100 fps, along with dropping the Lee FCD.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Next trip to the range will be with these bullets slowed down to 1000-1100 fps, along with dropping the Lee FCD.

Hi,

Dropping down your starting point sounds like a good place to begin. Dunno if I'd drop the Lee FCD completely, but I do know I don't need to put much crimp on w/ mine when using lead compared to what works w/ jacketed bullets.

Didn't read the thread that closely, but it doesn't sound like you've used any gas check bullets yet. I have a .357 Bisley whose bore looks like Ruger machined it w/ a rock. It simply will NOT shoot regular lead w/o making a huge mess in the barrel, but it shoots jacketed stuff just fine. Gas checked bullets aren't the perfect solution, but they DO allow me to shoot some lead in that gun.

Only problem w/ gas checks is they're getting pricey, and sometimes one can find bulk jacketed bullets close enough in price to make casting and installing gas checks simply a labor of love!

Rick C

 

[Hammerdown77]

What's the diameter of those lead bullets you are using? You need to make sure you're using at least .430" or .431". I think the Oregon Trail are .431"

You might have a lube issue, too. Might try a bottle of Lee Liquid Alox and see what happens. It's cheap and easy, couldn't hurt.

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

Bullets are just shy of .430 (.4296 or so) and the bore slugs at .430. These bullets are bevel base, not gas checked. I did order some flat based keith bullets from another source. It'll be a couple of weeks until I get those. Tonight, I am trying some cooler loads. They shoud be around 1000 fps.

 

[Sam Summey]

Most folks harden bullets with 50/50 solder. That means lots of tin in the alloy. Tin melts at a lower temp than lead. The best hardner is antimony/lynotype. Go with a faster burning powder like Unique or Universal with these bulltets. 19.5 gr 2400 is not necessarily hot load but 2400 has a longer burn time hence leading along the entire length of the barrel, the back of the bullets may be melting. I had a friend that is a bullseye revolver shooter who was experiencing leading with his piddling loads and hard bullets. The outcome of that excerise was the hard bullets were not "bumping up" and sealing the bore. He was experiencing "flame cutting" or blow by that melted the sides of the bullets. Ultimate accuracy was suffering too. All of this was tested with a Ransom rest over a three month period. He finally found that Hornady swaged bullets shot the best with the least leading. If you can find them some soft "Cowboy" bullets may work best.

 

[FrontSite]

Shoot hard lead with a slower burning powder ..
Shoot soft lead with a faster burning powder ...

You have to first know what type lead you have :wink:

FrontSite

 

[Three44s]

I would not condemn the Lee FCD but it could be adding to your problems if it's swaging your bought lead slugs post seating.

If your cast slugs are below bore size you have a real problem and downloading will likely help but not stop leading all by itself.

Lapping your bore is a good idea but you need to edumucate yourself on this technique. There is handlapping and firelapping and they both have their place.

Get yourself the Lewis lead remover kit for your bore size and also some Copper Chore Boy (copper scrubbing pad for pots and pans).

These goodies will save you much grief in removing leading.

Then, I'd invest in a very economical and very good book:

Beartooth Bullets


http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

Look on the left side bar and click on "Book".


And I'd invest in some Lee Liquid Alox and re-lube those factory lead bullets to salvage your investment.

With your then re-lubed slugs, I would pay very close attention to your bullet seating opperation ...... the question is are you belling enough?

If there is not enough flare at the case mouth the sharp edge will dig into the sides of your bullets and scrape lead loose ..... nothing ..... and I'm serious .... nothing else you do will then stop leading and it will be a mess.

A quick look at your already loaded rounds may cast some light on this question because little lead trimmings that look like small finger nail clippings may be resting between the case mouth and the crimp area of the bullet.

Personally, I like the Lyman "M" die for belling and it's a sweet heart. I am so anal that sometimes, I even bell with the M die AND the belling die supplied with the particular die set I am loading with.

The trick here is to not bell too much as it is very severe on brass and leads to premature failure but it is imparrative to get the RIGHT sort of bell applied.

I am also a fan of the Lyman VLD case mouth chamfering tool for the same reason ....... less drag, less bite on bullets .... and especially lead bullets.

Three 44s

 

[Paul B]

Bullets are just shy of .430 (.4296 or so) and the bore slugs at .430. These bullets are bevel base, not gas checked. I did order some flat based keith bullets from another source. It'll be a couple of weeks until I get those. Tonight, I am trying some cooler loads. They shoud be around 1000 fps.

Well hell, there's your problem. Those bullets are rattling down the barrel.
If the bore is .430 bullets should be .4305" and preferably .431". Also, slug and measure each of the cylinder's throats. they should be at least the same as the bore and preferably .431" as you said your bore was .430". If the cyliner throats are too small, .429" for example, those bullets will be swaged down and rattle down the bore.
Paul B.

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

Thanks folks. I picked up some flat base SWC at a gun show yesterday. The caster told me his alloy is 11-14 BHN and I grabbed a couple and they mic'ed at .4304. I'll load these up and give them a whirl. I did lighten the load to 7.0 gr Titegrpup and stopped using the FCD. I did not get leading until 30 rounds or so. With bullets .001 bigger, a flat base, and softer alloy, I think I will get there this week.

 

[Hammerdown77]

Tightgroup may also be part of the problem. It burns very hot. Lots of folks have reduced or eliminated leading simply by switching to a slower powder.