Ready to start .45Colt reloads - need some simplification

[Scott]

Got my press, dies, scale, etc. and have read Lyman's & Lee's manuals & lots of internet research - I think I'm ready to start! The only thing I have left is to buy some bullets, primers & powder. My goal is to start with a good target/practice load to gain some confidence, then move up to a hunting (white tail deer) load. I think I want to stick with lead; round nose or SWC.

Can anyone simplify what powder & bullets to start with? Lyman says start with "most accurate" combinations, Lee says use velocities, and Missouri bullet company emphasizes bullet hardness. I don't know where to start.

Can I go to the LGS and get (within reason) whatever powder and bullets they have on the shelf, then go looking for the load data? Can I get one medium weight bullet and use the same powder to load it light for practice & hotter for hunting? are pretty much all brands of large pistol primer ok for any load?

You get the point; I'd like a good KISS principal starting point & would appreciate some input.

 

[contender]

You are on the right track. You have the equipment,, and the manuels,, and are reading. Excellent.
While the KISS method is the best thing,, there are some things in your post that may not quite allow it.
You want to start with plinking & target punching and eventually move up to deer hunting. Good for you,, you just helped make a decision w/o realizing it. Inexpensive plinking & target punching is most often done with lead bullets. So,,, select a good cast lead bullet as the starting point. I highly recommend you stick with the most common bullet weight area of around the 250 grn mark. As for design,, here's where it gets a little more intriguing. You want an accurate bullet,, so,, you should test a few different designs to find out what your gun prefers. USUSLLY you can gat a good quality cast lead semi-wadcutter Keith design & not have to get any other type. Your LGS may not have them,, and a mail order will be neceaasary. The Keith design is an excellent one that has proven to work in many different firearms. Primers,, in general,, if you can find the Winchester WLP (large pistol) primers,, you won't have to go any further. The last part,, (and where the KISS principal goes off track a bit,) is powder.
We all want our firearms to be accurate AND do the job we intend them to do. As it's often said,, only accurate firearms are interesting. Study the manuels,, see what powders keep popping up as accurate types in that caliber & bullet weight. Then buy 1 lb each of 2 of the most commonly accurate ones. Then,, following the manuels,, start loading,, and testing. Soon,, you'll discover a load that YOUR gun seems to really like. Then it's back to the KISS method of keeping just one load for that firearm.
Accuracy should be the first priority,, followed by the velocity. With a good quality lead bullet,, in the 1000 fps to 1200 fps range,, you can shoot comfortably,, and also take down a deer quite easily.
As for loading a "light load for plinking & a heavy load for hunting,, you'll see a different point of impact in shooting if you do this. And,, it could possibily cause leading issues at either end of the spectrum.
I have been lucky enough to have taken almost 100 whitetails with a handgun. I practice with my accurate hunting loads,,,, and they are not the wristbreakingkickenboomer loads that some folks seem to need.
Just a bit of my personal experience that hopefully will help!

 

[targetshootr]

I'd start off with the least expensive .452 cast bullets you can find, swc or round, doesn't matter if it's for plinking. I use Universal, from 7gr to 10gr with a 250 or 260 gr slug. It burns very cleanly and the load info is basically the same as Unique.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Good advice here. Start simple with a lead bullet and find the load you gun likes with that bullet. I would second Unique or Universal powder.

When you are ready to load hunting rounds there are again many bullets and powders to choose from. You can wait to make those decisions. :D :D

...Jimbo

 

[Rclark]

Unique would be a good powder to start with. And a 250 grain round nosed flat point cast bullet would be a good one to start with. Large pistol primers.... 8.5 grains of Unique

This is my general purpose load too. My light load is 6.0g of Trail Boss under the same bullet. Taffin's load is 8.0g of Unique. Good starting place (and sometimes finishing place too ;) ) .

Here is a couple of places to get bullets.

http://www.rimrockbullets.net/catalog/i ... ucts_id=17

http://www.pennbullets.com/45/45-caliber.html

Can I get one medium weight bullet and use the same powder to load it light for practice & hotter for hunting? are pretty much all brands of large pistol primer ok for any load?

Well... Depends on how 'hot'. The faster you want the bullet to go, the harder it should be. For example the bullets above are around 10-12 hardness, while Oregon Trail bullets are harder and can be shot hotter. There are whole threads dedicated to this subject!!!!

As far as primers, yes, any brand of large pistol primer is ok for any load. Only time you have to watch it, is if you are on the 'ragged' edge of heavy loads..... For my practice/general purpose loads I don't see any difference with Magnum vs Regular vs WLP. I've been using whatever I can get :) .

 

[Scott]

As usual, excellent information and in a hurry - thanks all.

So it looks like I'm in the market for some Unique and/or Universal powder and some 250'ish gr. cast bullets. Contender - I think I'll buy into your thoughts and attempt to come up with a load that will satisfy deer-killin' and target shootin' in the same load. I'm not too crazy about having to sight the gun in differently when deer season gets here.

Another question; if I find some say, 250gr cast and it's the same weight and style of bullet, but NOT the exact one listed in the reloading charts I have, can I use the same starting/max. loads and assume they'll load safely with the powders listed?

 

[targetshootr]

Nine or 10 gr of Universal, or Unique if it's all you can find, hehe, will drop most any deer within revolver distance. I've read that the original black powder 45 colt load would go lengthwise through a horse at 100 yds and those first SAAs were made with crude metal, compared to todays guns.

 

[jpb in me]

I'm new to reloading too and scott asked the same question that I've been wondering. My first reloads were 240 gr lswc with 7.6 grains of unique as a starting point. The accuracy is good and the recoil is mild, actually enjoyable to shoot. I want to shoot and practice with what I intend to hunt with. I was planning on going to 8 to 8.5 grains next. How much is enough and is 240 lswc okay for deer hunting?

 

[Beaver Creek]

Tried lots of powders for the 45LC but have settled in on 10.5 gr AA#5 under a 255 SWC. Gives me about factory velocities, burns clean, meters well, accurate. Thats about all I hope for.

 

[Bigboreshooter]

Unique would be a good powder to start with. And a 250 grain round nosed flat point cast bullet would be a good one to start with. Large pistol primers.


CDFingers

+1

My "do everything" load uses 9.2 grains of Unique over a 250gr hard cast SWC.

 

[wild_weasel]

My favorite load in the 45 Colt is 8 gr of Unique, under a 255gr LRN or LSWC, Winchester or Remigton case, and Winchetser Large Piston Primer (WLP), moderate crimp. Works great in H&R Carbine, 5 1/2 Blackhawk Convertible, and 5 1/2 inch Ruger Old Army w/ R&D conversion Cylinder.

Cheers,
W-W

 

[slippingaway]

I'm a big fan of 250gr round nose flat point cast bullets, over 13.0gr of HS-6. John Linebaugh likes that powder charge under a 260gr cast bullet for big game, it works just as well under a 250.

Good reading here: http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/d ... e_myth.htm

 

[AKGrouch]

Well, I'm going out to see what a used newmodel blackhawk .45lc 4 5/8" likes. I am using a 250 gr RNFP with a standard cci large pistol primer and Unique. I've got 3 sets of 20 rnds each. 9.0 gr; 9.25 gr, and 9.5 gr. My lyman cast manual says that the 9.0 gr duplicates factory loads at about 875 fps with 10 gr being max at over 1150 fps. I'll let you know how it likes those loads.

 

[contender]

Scott,,, if you get a bullet of the same weight,, and material, (cast vs jacketed etc,) and start at the low end of the loading chart,, you can safely load them even if they are not the exact same bullet as what is listed in the manuel. Just,, as always,, as you approach the max loads,, watch for over pressure signs,, and pay attention to the gun. It'll tell you a lot of things. However,, I bet you'll find a good accurate load w/o "going to the max!"

 

[AKGrouch]

[quote
As far as primers, yes, any brand of large pistol primer is ok for any load. Only time you have to watch it, is if you are on the 'ragged' edge of heavy loads..... For my practice/general purpose loads I don't see any difference with Magnum vs Regular vs WLP. I've been using whatever I can get :) .

As to magnum vs standard primers, my recollection is you consider the magnum primer equal to 1 grain of powder. Therefore, if you were loading 9.0 grains of Unique w/a 250 RNFP and standard primer, switching to a mag primer would require only 8.0 grains of powder to equal the original load. If you loaded 9.0 with the mag primer, you would effectively be shooting about the same as 10.0 grains!!!! something to remember. I ran across that when I was shooting H110 in a .44 mag years ago and noticed a very distinct difference in case performance, felt recoil, etc.

 

[WESHOOT2]

Universal

Meister or Penn bullets

WLP or CCI350

Redding Profile Crimp die

But never-ever assume a "similar" bullet is the same.......

 

[slippingaway]

Scott,,, if you get a bullet of the same weight,, and material, (cast vs jacketed etc,) and start at the low end of the loading chart,, you can safely load them even if they are not the exact same bullet as what is listed in the manuel. Just,, as always,, as you approach the max loads,, watch for over pressure signs,, and pay attention to the gun. It'll tell you a lot of things. However,, I bet you'll find a good accurate load w/o "going to the max!"

You'll find a good accurate load before you hit max for sure, and you probably won't see any benefit from loading any higher anyway. A 250gr RNFP at 1050fps will go all the way through a deer as is, no point in loading it up to 1250 or 1300fps, it will just go all the way through in slightly less time. Of course, different people will have different opinions on that I'm sure...

 

[WESHOOT2]

I use that bullet (mine, an actual 252g LRNFP) in the 45ACP for certain 'advanced' loads, and also at 670fps for 'making Major'.......

 

[gobe]

I'm probably in the same class as Scott. Got my 'always wanted' .45 Colt clone (Uberti replica) and decided reloading was the only way to shoot as frequently as I want to. Lucked out on finding a Dillon 550 and got all set up. First time reloading brass. Have loaded tens of thousands 12 ga trap loads on my MEC Grabber.

The Lyman 49th Edition recommended TiteGroup under a 250 gr LRNFP which I'm shooting. Remington brass and large pistol primers round it out. The 'book' shows 5.6 to 6.2 gr of TiteGroup and that doesn't look like much in a .45LC case! I'm at the low end of mid-range throwing 5.8 gr of TiteGroup. It shoots O.K., but boy is it dirty! After 35 rounds it looked like I was shooting black powder!

Stopped after 35 rounds because I popped a cap and didn't have any powder in it! A squib! Slug stopped when it hit the rifling ... half in the barrel and half in the chamber, locking the cylinder! I know none of youse guys ever had this happen, but I now understand that it happens occasionally to the Cowboy Action Shooters and they carry a brass rod to clear it on the range and just go on shooting.

The squib didn't bother me half as much as the thought that I might have a "double" in the box somewhere! Don't think an Uberti replica would like 11.6 grs of TiteGroup.

Came home. Cleared the jam and weighed every reloaded round I had made looking for a 5.8 gr difference from average and didn't find any. Will be much more attentive when I'm reloading from now on!

 

[contender]

gobe,, it happens,,,! Glad to know you caught it before any other problems happened.
Something to consider.
If you are new to reloading,, you should be using a single-stage press. As such,, you should throw the powder charge in 50 cases,, sticking each charged case in a loading block. Then BEFORE seating the bullets,, I stand up,, (streching my legs,) and physically look into each & every case to see if the powder level is equal in each one. It helps stop empty cases a lot.

 

[slippingaway]

gobe,, it happens,,,! Glad to know you caught it before any other problems happened.
Something to consider.
If you are new to reloading,, you should be using a single-stage press. As such,, you should throw the powder charge in 50 cases,, sticking each charged case in a loading block. Then BEFORE seating the bullets,, I stand up,, (streching my legs,) and physically look into each & every case to see if the powder level is equal in each one. It helps stop empty cases a lot.

This is a good way to do it, keep a little maglite handy for looking in those big, empty cases.

Also, you might want to switch to a different powder that fills the case up more. If you use a powder that fills the case at least halfway, you'll catch a double because it will overflow the case.

 

[gobe]

A couple of excellent ideas!

Contender: I've reloaded tens of thousands of 12 ga shotgun shells on a MEC Grabber ... a progressive reloader. (I ran the mfgr operations at MEC for 8-1/2 years back in my misspent youth) However, I do have a nice, new loading block and could run a batch of cartridges through the 'powder drop' stage (number 2 position on the 550). Just have to pull the location pin and remove the cartridge to the loading block. Could the scan the batch for uniformity and then run them through the final two stages, bullet seating and crimping. That's the nice thing about a Dillon 550 ... you can operate it as a progressive or single-stage.

Slippingaway: More powder in the case would be nice. As I said, the Lyman 49th Edition recommends TiteGroup for the 250 gr LRNFP slug and says it's not 'position sensitive', a positive factor. However, 5.8 grs. of TiteGroup is not much powder in a .45 LC case!!! Would have to ask some of the experienced reloading folks here what powder would fill the case more. Maybe I ought to go back to black powder and oatmeal. Whoops, I guess that should be cream of wheat! Any powder that would fill the case 1/3rd to 1/2 way would be great because you could easily see the level as you are rotating the case from the #2 position to #3 position.

Thanks for the 'sage advice', guys.

 

[AKGrouch]

My 8.5 gr Unique under a 250 gr RNFP is the most accurate for my 4-5/8 Vaquero. I've loaded up to 10 gr. The groups open up a bit, but the recoil is considerably greater.
CDFingers

That is kind of what my experience was earlier today. The 4 5/8 " Blackhawk liked 9.0 gr of Unique, opened up a bit with 9.25, then tightened up a bit with 9.5 but not quite as tight as 9.0. Next, for purely physical comfort, I'm gonna try 8.75 and 8.5. Would be nice if the best load ends up being 8.5 if for no other reason than the finger knuckle that keeps getting rapped....after a while it hurts ya know...especially after I just had to fire a cylinder of old ammo through the old flattop .44 with 20.5 gr of 2400, a CCI mag primer and a 240 gr swc. Not max but definitely not cold either. :roll: Sure made the old flattop roll in my hand... :)

 

[Rclark]

what powder would fill the case more.

If you looking for light loads in the .45 Colt, there is no better powder than Trail Boss --bar none. It fills the case nicely. You can't double charge it (overflow) and under charges are very obvious as well. Only thing you don't want to do is compress it. I use it for light .357 loads as well.

For moderate loads, Unique (which I load a lot with) is a powder that is obvious when not loaded correctly.

 

[comanche]

I would recommend HS-6 for your 45colt. Blackhawk starting load is around 9.5grains for a 250gr. LRNFP (I think) check your manuals.
HS-6 is an awesome powder, very versatile and forgiving.

 

[gobe]

Well, I tried Contender's suggestion today. Went out to the range on Monday and put about one hundred through my Colt .45 replica Uberti. Today I loaded up 50 running them through the first two stations of my Dillon 550 and setting each one in a loading block. When it was all loaded up, I got my flashlight and scanned the whole block. All looked the same, so I unhooked the primer feed and ran them all through the last two stations. Don't have to worry about that box of reloads!

Might have to keep doing that until I run out of that pound of TiteGroup and then try one of the other powders you guys suggested. Would really like to have more powder in the case, so there would be less likelyhood of a double charge. Being able to see the powder at a nice level in the case as I'm rotating from station 2 to 3 would be comforting.

Thanks guys.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Well, I tried Contender's suggestion today. Went out to the range on Monday and put about one hundred through my Colt .45 replica Uberti. Today I loaded up 50 running them through the first two stations of my Dillon 550 and setting each one in a loading block. When it was all loaded up, I got my flashlight and scanned the whole block. All looked the same, so I unhooked the primer feed and ran them all through the last two stations. Don't have to worry about that box of reloads!

Might have to keep doing that until I run out of that pound of TiteGroup and then try one of the other powders you guys suggested. Would really like to have more powder in the case, so there would be less likelyhood of a double charge. Being able to see the powder at a nice level in the case as I'm rotating from station 2 to 3 would be comforting.

Thanks guys.

FWIW, you can get a RCBS Lock-Out die, or a Hornady "Powder Cop" die, which will check the amount of powder in a case automatically and alert you to over and under charge conditions. I still need to pick one up myself, as I just upgraded to a progressive press (LNL-AP).

I'll second the nomination of Trail Boss for a case-filling powder. That's one of the whole points of this powder.

Personally I really like W231/HP-38 in mid range .45 Colt and .44 Special loads. However, the loads I use only fill the cases by less than 1/3, so you don't get an obvious visual clue on over charges.

-- Sam

 

[slippingaway]

Well, I tried Contender's suggestion today. Went out to the range on Monday and put about one hundred through my Colt .45 replica Uberti. Today I loaded up 50 running them through the first two stations of my Dillon 550 and setting each one in a loading block. When it was all loaded up, I got my flashlight and scanned the whole block. All looked the same, so I unhooked the primer feed and ran them all through the last two stations. Don't have to worry about that box of reloads!

Might have to keep doing that until I run out of that pound of TiteGroup and then try one of the other powders you guys suggested. Would really like to have more powder in the case, so there would be less likelyhood of a double charge. Being able to see the powder at a nice level in the case as I'm rotating from station 2 to 3 would be comforting.

Thanks guys.

FWIW, you can get a RCBS Lock-Out die, or a Hornady "Powder Cop" die, which will check the amount of powder in a case automatically and alert you to over and under charge conditions. I still need to pick one up myself, as I just upgraded to a progressive press (LNL-AP).

I'll second the nomination of Trail Boss for a case-filling powder. That's one of the whole points of this powder.

Personally I really like W231/HP-38 in mid range .45 Colt and .44 Special loads. However, the loads I use only fill the cases by less than 1/3, so you don't get an obvious visual clue on over charges.

-- Sam

Dillon should have a powder-check die for the 550 as well, you just might have to either prime or crimp as a separate operation since you'll lose one of those stations. Give Dillon a call, they'll be able to help you.

 

[Dale53]

Your choice of handgun will dictate what and how you load the cartridge.

As a for instance, the Ruger Blackhawk will allow you to load most bullets available for the .45 Colt to be seated so as to use the crimp groove in most cast bullet designs. However, there are those handguns that will not allow that great an overall length. Those short cylinders must have the bullets seated deeper to allow you to crimp over the front band. That also has a side effect on how much powder you can use (deeper seating requires less powder for the same pressure).

Further, the Ruger Blackhawk has a larger cylinder and frame than the original Colt SSA (and clones) so you can load heavier.

All of that said, the Lyman loading manual (47th Edition) shows a minimum charge of Unique at 6.0 grs for 590 fps and a maximum 8.5 grs for 840 fps (for Colt level presures).

Lyman's Cast Bullet handbook (3rd Edition) allows a maximum of 10.2 grs of Unique for a velocity of 1081.

These figures are all used with the Lyman 452424 Keith 255 gr bullet.

My favorite bullet has been the NOE 454424 Keith bullet at 255 grs. I size my bullets to .452" and the alloy is WW's + 2% tin. Primer is a standard LP (I mostly use Federals).

My "standard" load is the 255 gr Keith with 8.5 grs of Unique.

I don't like round nose bullets for ANY use. On paper targets they don't cut a clean hole and on game they punch through giving little or no shock. I use a Keith style bullet for better utility whether using paper or on game.

I have used a similar load in .44 Special (Keith bullet at about 900 fps) as a general carry load and it also works well on edible small game. Whether you shoot the game through the head or through the "slats" you do NOT have to shoot them twice. On the other hand, if you shoot well, you won't have any meat damage to speak of. The Keith bullets are truly "all around" bullets.

FWIW
Dale53

 

[Scott]

With all this excellent information, I think here's what I'll do; buy some approx. 250gr LSWC bullets, some Unique powder & any brand large pistol primer I can find, then, starting with light loads, work my way up to the one my gun likes the best. That will be my primary load for this gun, both hunting and target practice ( I'll use the single six if I want to blow through a large number of rounds - see my avatar; I'm working on getting both guns sighted similarly so I can get close to the same feel with both). I'll worry about different loads for different purposes later.

Tell me where I'm thinkin' wrong, & I'll take it into consideration, unless I get the time and supplies to get started first!