Pressing questions

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m00se

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
37
I want to start reloading 40 S&W. A friend has all of the gear (press, dies, measure, scale, etc), so all I need is consumables and brass. To that end, I bought a tumbler and some walnut media and now I have about 350 clean cases :)

I'm ready to start buying powder, primers, and bullets. I like 180gr factory ammo, so that's what I want to load. I will probably buy plated bullets, but I haven't ruled lead out yet. Based on what I have read, my first choice of powder is N320, followed by WST, Silhouette, and a few others (depends on what I can find at the local shop). For primers, I have seen CCI small pistol primers on the shelf so that's probably what I will buy. Comments or suggestions?

And now the real question: I also want to buy a press, etc, of my own. I have decided on Lee equipment, but I don't know which press to get. Most "beginner" guides recommend a single stage or turret press. Of those two, the turret is the most appealing, but the turret kit is also the most expensive option at about $200 street price without dies. The Challenger single stage kit is somewhat less expensive but it's a single stage. I also looked at the Pro 1000, which lead to my question.

I can get the Pro1000 progressive press *with* dies for about the same price as the Challenger single stage kit and dies, and less than the price of the Classic Turret kit. Why would I not go for that? It lacks a scale, but even after buying a scale I'm still in the price range of the Challenger kit with dies. Mechanical complexity doesn't scare me - it's actually kind of appealing.

Is there a compelling reason NOT to start with a progressive press? I'm not going to buy any equipment until I have loaded a couple of batches on my friend's press - that experience may answer my question. But I'm also interested in what the wise sages of reloading have to say.

If it matters, my gun is an SR40c and my empty brass all came from my gun with the exception of one Speer case that snuck in - I've never bought or fired Speer ammo.
 

gmartinnc

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
508
I've always thought a turret would be nice, but have never had one. With a progressive, you can crank out a lot of ammo fast, but reloading is one thing where "fast" isn't the most important thing. What is important, is your knowledge of exactly what is going on at each die, and your ability to stay on top of it. I've never blown up a gun, but I hear it's not a pleasant experience and for a beginner, I don't think it's wise to start out with a progressive. There's just too much happening at once, while you are still learning.
A lot of people use Lee equipment and I've never bought anything made by them that didn't work, but personally, I wouldn't want one of their presses. I see deals all the time on used equipment by other manufacturers and would probably recommend going that route instead, if money is tight. Most manufacturers that I know of except Lee, have a lifetime warranty on their products, and there is a reason for that.
I've been using the same Rockchucker since the mid 70's, and it is as good now as it has ever been. There is also a Dillon 550 here if I need to load a lot of ammo fast. If I wanted, I could sell these right now for more that I paid. Try that with a Lee.
 

wizofwas

Buckeye
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
1,068
Location
Gulf Coast, Fla.
As a beginner, I'd stick with a single stage press. I have a Rockcrusher, and it works just fine. It's just to easy to have something go wrong and not catch it until it's to late. At least with a single stage, you can inspect your work as you go. And misteaks in loading can be deadly. AFAIK, lead and plated bullets are the same thing, the plating is more for looks than any practical use. And I've been using CCI primers with no problems at all.
 

Clovishound

Blackhawk
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
802
Location
Summerville SC
If you go with Lee, get their cast iron series. Anything labeled as "classic" I believe is cast. In the case of the turret press, their classic turret is cast. It not only has the sturdier cast iron base, but the linkage is more robust as well. It only runs an additional $20 last time I checked.

I would recommend starting with either a single stage, or a turret. I have a classic turret, with an auto disc pro mounted on it.

I have never reloaded for .40, but do for 9mm. Cast bullets can be challenging in 9mm due to leading problems. I would assume the same is true fro .40. My .38 loves cast. Plated bullets take the whole leading issue out of the picture. You can always try cast later down the road once you have mastered the basics.

Check out FSreloading. You can pick up a classic turret press, an auto disc pro, a beam scale, and a Lee reloading manual for under $200 plus shipping. Other retailers will have similar deals.
 

contender

Ruger Guru
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
25,145
Location
Lake Lure NC USA
Welcome to the world of reloading& our Forum!
Your first purchase should be a couple of good books on reloading.
Look at some of the "Sticky's" here about presses & beginning reloading.
Lots of good info there.
Next, plated bullets are good. Load as lead, (powder amounts & primers,) but the big advantage over lead is less "smoke" from the lubes in lead bullets. For those of us who shoot competition, we need to be able to make follow up shots quicker, and lead smoke slows us down. Plus, I have found cleaning guns after shooting plated over cast is a wee bit easier. (most of the time. Some lead bullets are super easy to clean up after.)
Now, I'm going to offer you a bit of advice on equipment. I prefer the cast single stage presses for a beginner. As noted above, it's always about safety, and as such, while a bit slower, a single stage will allow you to learn about reloading as you load ammo. Yes, progressives are faster & have a certain "cool" factor, but you need to walk before you run.
Next, if this is to be a long time venture, I'd suggest you spend your hard earned money on the best quality equipment you can afford. I still have my first Rockchucker press I bought back in 1980. It replaced my Lyman press. (I was upgrading.) Quality equipment gives less problems in the long run!
 

Flash

Buckeye
Joined
May 21, 2005
Messages
1,164
Location
Pennsylvania, USA
Search the youtube videos for reloading. From that you can decide for yourself, which press you like the operation of and ease of function. You will find videos of sizing, priming, bullet seating and on many different presses. The end result is going to be the same, to load ammunition but you don't want added frustration while you're learning so watch the vids and see which press looks like what you'd like to own.
Oh and you will be loading for a polymer framed gun so don't push the upper limits of the load data.
 

gmartinnc

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
508
I would like to add one bit of advice. Much of reloading is all about what you feel through your equipment during the process. Any time something doesn't feel as it should, stop right then and find out why.
Also, avoid distractions. If your attention isn't focused 100% on what you are doing, you are asking for trouble.
 

dougader

Hunter
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
3,108
Location
OryGun
After years of reading reviews on Lee loaders, the only one(s) I would buy is a single stage or their classic turret press.

I have a Hornady single stage and a Dillon 550B. They both work great.

Powder, bullets and primers may come down to what you can find as opposed to what you want.

A good book or 2 or 3 is a great investment. I like Speer 14, and Lyman 49th as my most used manuals. I also refer to Hornady 9th, Sierra 5th, and Nosler manauls, as well as online data from Hodgdon, Vihtavuori, Accurate Arms/Ramshot and Alliant.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
9,810
Location
Woodbury, Tn
I just recently bought a 49th Ed Lyman. Highly over rated IMO. Very little useable data with powders I have only read about. Most of my data comes from Hogdon and Alliant web sites.
gramps
 

Rick Courtright

Hawkeye
Joined
Mar 10, 2002
Messages
7,897
Location
Redlands CA USA
Hi,

I'm a confirmed "single stager" and rather conservative in my reloading practices. Some here would like to believe I live in a cave, but there are some sound reasons behind my choices. So you've been warned about any biases I may exhibit here!

Learning the reloading hobby (or "addiction" as some like to suggest! ;) ) passes thru three distinct phases in my view. Phase 1 is learning to make "safe" ammo (stuff that won't hurt you, the gun, or anyone around you.) Phase 2 is learning to make "good" ammo (the stuff that always goes off, does whatever it does consistently, and so forth), and Phase 3 is learning to make "customized for you" ammo. By that, I mean you're learning which particular load works best with a given gun, what your production requirements are (e.g. a guy shooting competition needs a LOT of ammo but may not have a lot of time to devote to his loading) and your usage requirements (e.g. a guy on a "once in a lifetime" hunt needs far more specialized loads than the guy out just killing soda cans on a Saturday afternoon.)

Using that as a base, you want to learn all the steps involved, and develop your own quality control procedures first. This is where the single stage approach shines: you do one thing at a time, repetitively, and can check your progress at any given moment by simply stopping and looking. Once you're positive you're putting together "safe" ammo, you can move on to the next phase.

Here you're looking to produce "good" ammo: you want it to shoot and function consistently. You want it to feed properly, fire, be reasonably accurate, and eject properly, every time. I can't count the number of times over the last 40-some years I've heard "problems" blamed on "reloads." Well, yes, there's a correlation, but it's more like the problems were caused by "bad" reloads! Cases that are all crudded up won't feed well. Bullets that aren't sized properly can result in leading, jammed up rounds in chambers, poor feeding, and a host of other problems. Sloppy powder measurement can result in holes all over the paper, or maybe not even on it at all. Etc., etc.

At this stage, you're still NOT in a hurry (or SHOULDN'T be!) So sticking with a single stage up to this point is still a very good idea. But eventually you'll want to move on to "customizing" your ammo. This is where you'll experience the oft repeated saying, "In MY gun!" This is where you'll apply previous experience in a more experimental fashion. You can continue to do all that with the single stage equipment, but by now you may also find you can't turn out enough ammo in the time allotted to fill your needs. If that's the case, this is the time to "step up" to either a turret or progressive press. There will be a new learning curve, but knowing all the "basics" frees you up to learn the new mechanical "challenges" as opposed to having to learn "what to do" at the same time you're learning "how to do it" with the new equipment. I'd liken it to a guy who's a great baker with a gas oven who's put in a situation where he's now going to use a wood fired oven: he knows what he's gotta do as far as preparing his dough and all, so all he has to learn "new" is the difference between operating the two types of oven...

Can you learn from the get go with a more elaborate press? Sure, but unless you have a good mentor to watch over you, it's more likely mistakes will be made that the more experienced loader would know to look for. And the problem with mistakes here is we're dealing with stuff that goes "BOOM" right in front of our faces! So we don't need, or want, to take chances.

I've got two friends right now in the same position as the OP: they're not reloaders, but want to learn how and are looking on all the websites and at all the catalogs. Both are dreaming of expensive, elaborate equipment that will last them a lifetime plus. But neither's ever loaded a single round yet. To tell the truth, I'm going to suggest as strongly as possible that they start at the lower end of the spectrum and learn the "crawl, walk, run" sequence.

Why? I've explained some of it above. But there are other factors, too. One of them's about 25, very mechanically inclined, but still learning the art of troubleshooting as it applies in the guns and ammo venue. He could benefit from a progressive machine, as he shoots a lot of pistol ammo, and a lot of .223 as well. But he doesn't "need" one quite yet.

The other one's 71, and hardly mechanical at all. He's gonna be better off with a simple approach, and isn't going to be concerned as much if his machine will still be working well 50 years from now!

So, being they've already designated me as their "teacher" for this adventure, I'd like them both to learn the same steps, the same procedures, the same things to look for, side by side, rather than teaching two "classes" customized to each "student." Then "The Kid" as we call him can start looking to spend his money on more sophisticated equipment, while "The Old Guy" can spend his on components. And both can meet their "needs" while satisfying at least some of their "wants."

As such, I'm going to suggest each of them keeps their initial cash outlay reasonably low, with one of the "kits" most mfrs offer. For the kid, one such as RCBS, Lyman, Hornady and others offer, with stronger, longer lasting items, such as the Rock Chucker or Crusher press and similar other tools, will probably be a good investment. For the old guy, a Lee Challenger press based kit will be fine, though I'm gonna suggest he get an RCBS 5-0-5 scale to go along with it. I think Lee's done a great job of making "introductory" equipment over the years, and the other mfrs probably owe Lee a debt of gratitude for bringing lots of folks into the game, but their scale isn't on many people's "favorites" list best I can tell!

Sooner or later, regardless of what they start out with, these guys will go thru the stages we all do, where we need "just one more thing" or a "bigger, better" one, and as we've seen from pictures of folks' loading benches, there will be duplicates of many items.

That's a good thing! One of the best things about reloading is there is usually more than one way to do just about every operation, and each of us ends up with a "Frankenbench" of goodies we like best. That's half the fun!

Rick C
 

Twoboxer

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
190
There are several compelling reasons not to start with a progressive, but the most important of them have to do with YOU, and we don't know you. So assess yourself . . .

If you are patient, have some mechanical aptitude and usually catch on to such stuff quickly, if you feel/hear something odd (eg) in your car and can figure out what in general is causing the problem, if you can and do RTFM . . . most of the personal barriers are removed. You are doing some reloading before buying, and that's a BIG help too. You also have a friend who reloads. So my GUESS is you are personally OK for a progressive.

The second group of compelling reasons have to do with calibers and quantities. If you are loading pistol and can make batches of 500 to 1k and preferably more . . . a progressive is a reasonable idea. Otherwise, it may take you longer to set up, pack your loaded ammo up, and clean up than you save vs a single stage yet alone a turret. If your batches are 100, single stage works. If ~200-500, the Lee Turret is a fine choice. Any minor issues with concentricity, OAL variation, etc are not gonna affect you at 7 yds.

If you are going to do rifle, you often have case prep in between resizing and charging. So much of the advantage of a progressive CAN be reduced, especially on low volume batches. Since rifle distances are greater, single stage presses are often felt to deliver the close consistent tolerances that rifle makes good use of. Most would say if you are going to do rifle, start with a single stage because you will need one on your bench anyhow.

Re the Lee Progressive: My guess is NO ONE but a current owner/user would recommend it. I'm sure many have gotten them to produce ammo without agita, but the presses recommended would be the Hornady LnL AP, or a Dillon 550 or 650 depending on your budget, number of changeovers, etc.

Re 40 cal pistol powder . . . check a book that shows powders/charges, and get whatever you can to start.

GL, HF, stay safe.
 

dougader

Hunter
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
3,108
Location
OryGun
I like the Lyman books because they have cast bullet data, even for rifles. In addition, they have data for multiple bullet company bullets. Just ordered the Lyman cast bullet manual #3 as well.

Online data is great, but they don't have a lot in the way of instruction. I learned on the Lyman 45th or 46th manual, then started buying manuals as they came available. I have multiple manuals from several publishers like Speer, Nosler, Hornady and Sierra as well as old pamphlets from Hercules (now Alliant), Accurate Arms, etc.

My brother-in-law and I started out using his new Dillon Square Deal. And we started with 9mm for his then-new Beretta 92F.

If you're detail oriented and can follow instructions, you can do this. Just always be aware that even a small mistake can cause big problems. A pinch extra of powder in a small case raises pressures out of sight.
 

Greg Mercurio

Single-Sixer
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
168
Location
NW Montana
m00se: You've gotten a lot of good and probably great advice here. Since I've only been reloading for 40 odd years, I'll just say that the seductive powers of a turret or progressive press should be set aside until you've really become proficient with a single stage press. I have my first press, an old RCBS Jr press that made easily tens of thousands of both pistol and rifle rounds. I still have it, I still use it, and I also have 2 progressive presses that get used regularly. I didn't get the first progressive until maybe 5 years ago.

I think you'd be money ahead to go to a gun show/pawnshop/Craigslist, get a good used single stage press, assorted support equipment, and a couple of current reloading manuals and learn how to make quality ammunition before you dive into the deep end of the ocean. My $05.

p.s. I'm not a Lee fan. I have one of their inexpensive open presses, it is used for depriming crimped primers and sizing cast bullets with their lube/size kits. I'd not vote for their dies either. I have some, soon to be replaced by the green brand. YMMV.
 

Clark

Bearcat
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
87
Location
Duluth, MN
I did quite a bit of research and came to the conclusion that the Lee Classic Turret press was the best option for me and the best price on it is here:

https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&product_id=630&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41&vmcchk=1&Itemid=41

I'm very happy with my purchase and can load 100 rounds/hour of 45 ACP without breaking a sweat. I would gladly buy it again if I had to start all over.

Clark
 

m00se

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
37
Thank you all for the advice. I see a lot of good reasons not to start with a progressive press. I may have a lead on some used equipment, but I'm not sure what brand or kind yet. I'm also having a hard time locating powder. Does anyone know where I can find powder in the Phoenix, AZ area?

As Twoboxer pointed out, nobody knows anything about me except that I own an SR40c and I'm crazy enough to try to roll my own ammo :) To that end, I'm an ex-Army tank mechanic turned computer geek now cleverly disguised as a senior network administrator. Nit-picky detail is all in a day's work. Speaking of work, if anyone needs a network/server guru with microwave experience who can climb cell towers (I'm certified - told you I was crazy) drop me a line. I'm mechanically inclined, which is another way of saying I'd rather spend a day getting greasy than pay someone to fix my car. I'm pretty sure I could handle the setup of a progressive press, but as pointed out, without prior reloading experience I will be lacking some impotant knowledge. I'm a firm believer in walking before you run, so barring a progressive press falling in my lap I will go with, at most, a turret press. And a book or three.
 

gmartinnc

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
508
Here is a interesting read about turret presses.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/381108_redding_T_7_vs_rcbs_turret.html
That I agree with everything said there 100%, and if I had to buy all new equipment today, Redding or Dillon is the direction I would go in.
I believe I saw a RCBS scale mentioned earlier. I guess the new ones would work, but for the last few years, they were being made in Mexico and I have read some bad reviews about those. Perhaps they have that corrected now because all RCBS scales now, are made in China. Yep, if you look on the bottom of the box in the fine print, it's there. Problem is, they forgot to adjust the price accordingly.
Reloading is a lot like climbing a cell tower I think. In both situations, you might not have but one opportunity to be careful, so stay safe and have fun!
 

dougader

Hunter
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
3,108
Location
OryGun
I have dies from Lee, Hornady, RCBS and Redding. They all get the job done, but I prefer them best in the opposite order originally listed:

Redding, RCBS, Hornady, Lee.
 

chefrob1

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
356
Location
az
m00se, i learned on a progressive (Dillon 550) and i certainly don't think i made a bad decision. the 550b can be used as a single station, in fact that is exactly what i did so i could learn all of the steps individually. the 550 is a manual indexing machine which makes this possible and also lets you go at your own speed while learning the different processes of each station. the nice thing about Dillon is that it is local for you and me, that and their no BS warranty made up my mind. the down side (and only one) with Dillon is they are not cheap, but i will say you get what you pay for. do yourself a favor and go visit their showroom on the 101 and Frank Loyd Wright, they have them set up and the staff are pretty helpful.
as far as powder and other supplies, not sure what side of the valley you are on but there are two Sportsman's Warehouse locations (one in north Phoenix and one in Mesa). also check out some local LGS, you might get lucky. Dillon also carries some supplies........just go local on powder and primers so you won't have any shipping + hazmat fees.
 

m00se

Bearcat
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
37
Update time!

I went with a Lee Hand Press. I also picked up the Lee 4-die set for 40S&W, a pack of Lee dippers, four extra Breech Lock bushings, and an AWS scale. The logic went something like this: I have a workbench, but there's not much extra room on it. The bench is also in the garage where it's HOT in the summer - did I mention I live in AZ? With the Hand Press I can load inside :) I also downloaded and read the Lee and Vihtavouri reloading books.

After lots of reading, measuring, and setting up of dies and bushings, I have loaded the first batch: 10 rounds of Berry's 180gr RNFP atop 5.9gr of CFE Pistol and a CCI #500 primer. The recommended OAL was 1.125". Most of mine have an OAL of 1.126", there are a couple at 1.127 and one at 1.124 - no idea how it ended up .001 short. From what I have read, OAL can vary by as much as .005 without causing problems so my 1.124 round should be safe to shoot.

For the charge weight, 5.9gr is the starting load. Two rounds came in at 5.88gr, the rest hit 5.90. It would be more accurate to say the 5.88s were some of the very first ones and my frustration with the scale kept me from making them 5.90 :)

I did not crimp with the seating die. I used the FCD to remove the bell from the case mouth.

I'm hoping to get them to the range this week for a test. Assuming I see no signs of pressure problems, I plan to move up to 6.1gr or maybe 6.2gr of powder for the next batch.
 
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