Please help me pick a shotgun

[Poomwah]

I posted this here because this isn't about my Rugers.
Hi guys, I'm shopping for my next 12 gauge.
I'm really liking Mossberg's 930 JM Pro . I would love to have a semi auto for the three gun type shotgunning.
I'm a little concerned about the reliability issues that often come with a semi auto.
I would like the gun to be as versatile as possible, three gun type shooting, bird and small game hunting, large game hunting, home defense. etc etc etc.
Another consideration is that I have some family members that have trouble manipulating the pump on a pump gun. They currently shoot double barrels but would really like to have higher capacity.
I realize that no ONE gun will do everything, but I would like to get a gun that will do as many things as possible.
For what I want, it will have a 22 or 24 inch barrel, and will definitely be a 12 gauge.
what do you guys think? semi auto and have the high speed fun and the ease of use? pump and have the reliability?
Budget is about 700
Thanks guys :]

 

[737tdi]

Well, home protection and hunting is kind of convoluted. There are tons of guns that will protect your home and there are tons of guns that are used for hunting. I think that you need to rethink your priorities. Home, hunting. Are there two, sure there are, they don't do either very well.

Home defense: Short barrel, auto or pump.

Hunting: Depending on Geese, ducks, turkey?

I don't see one being compatible with the other. Buy a home defense shotgun and buy the shot gun you want to hunt with.

Look at this and decide. Do not buy these cheap brands that are junk. It is your life and fun. The last thing you want is a misfire.




http://www.benelliusa.com/

I own a couple and they are awesome.

Your opinion may vary. YMMV.

Karl

 

[cruzerlou]

Well I'm a Mossberg man ,but the last Moss auto I had was a M 9200 3" mag.
It did fine for years with light and heavy loads .I bought a 24" cantilever scope mount rifled bbl and it shot like a house afire.
One season shooting those Winchester 435gr sabot H.P. slugs at 1,900 fps battered it to death.
Since then I've stuck with my M 500 pump and a Remington 1100 auto.
The Remington is quick to swap bbl,s out on , stocks, for ends and such.
I can switch it from a tactical home defence/ 3 gun comp gun back to a hunter in 20 minutes.
My 1100 is a 2 3/4" only gun but the 1100 mag will handle 3" shells.
Uber reliable and lots of aftermarket parts for it.Not so much for the Mossberg .
Here's pics of my 1100 in combat and hunting form.
I have no experience with the 930 and frankly for the price of the gun and lack of aftermarket parts the Remington's more gun for the money.
Lou
My 1100 in stock form, 28" fixed full choke bbl




In Tactical form, 22" cylinder bore bbl with Rem. slugger sights , Speed feed 3 shot extension tube, sidesaddle 6 shot shell holder, IV short pistol grip butt stock and matching for end .
If I'm slug hunting I just leave it like this .




For buck shot I use my M500 with a buck kicker full choke tube for 00 buck ,it will keep all 15 pellets of a 3" mag 00 buck in a 20" circle at 40 yards
I have a turkey kicker choke ex. full tube that will do the same with 2X6 3" mag turkey loads.
This has a 20" factory vent rib Accu-choke bbl on it and a Tasco 44 MM red. green dot sight in it , also a good Home Defense gun.

 

[Poomwah]

thanks guys.
Karl,I really appreciate the advice, but I disagree. I think with nothing more than a barrel change, a 12 gauge could serve just as well as a home defense as it could as a hunting tool.
Lou,
I am not at all against the 1100, I didn't realized that there was so much available for it. unfortunately I can't see any picture in your post though.

 

[737tdi]

thanks guys.
Karl,I really appreciate the advice, but I disagree. I think with nothing more than a barrel change, a 12 gauge could serve just as well as a home defense as it could as a hunting tool.
Lou,
I am not at all against the 1100, I didn't realized that there was so much available for it. unfortunately I can't see any picture in your post though.

Really, You are going to change the barrel for home defense? Trust me here, you aren't going to do it. You need one gun for the home and one gun for hunting. If you want a gun for hunting??? Buy a turkey/bird gun. Home protection, buy a Benelli. JMO. Go on, you aren't going to change them. Trust me here. You aren't Or you will forget and try to kill a guy with birdshot.

Please, split home protection and hunting. They are not even close to being the same. Use one for home and hunt with the other..JMO.

Karl

 

[Poomwah]

thanks guys.
Karl,I really appreciate the advice, but I disagree. I think with nothing more than a barrel change, a 12 gauge could serve just as well as a home defense as it could as a hunting tool.
Lou,
I am not at all against the 1100, I didn't realized that there was so much available for it. unfortunately I can't see any picture in your post though.

Really, You are going to change the barrel for home defense? Trust me here, you aren't going to do it. You need one gun for the home and one gun for hunting. If you want a gun for hunting??? Buy a turkey/bird gun. Home protection, buy a Benelli. JMO. Go on, you aren't going to change them. Trust me here. You aren't Or you will forget and try to kill a guy with birdshot.

Please, split home protection and hunting. They are not even close to being the same. Use one for home and hunt with the other..JMO.

Karl

Yes, by all means I would change barrels, you act like that's a weird, new concept. What is so odd about having one barrel on it for home defense, then swapping out a barrel if I go hunting? or having more than one hunting barrel depending on what I hunt. People have been doing it for a really long time and I'm not sure why it seems like such an odd idea to you.
try to kill the guy with birdshot? why would I do that? because you think I'm not competent enough or maybe I'm too lazy to change a barrel? Even if I left a field barrel on, why do you think I'd be trying to use bird shot?
I don't NEED two guns, and most importantly, I don't WANT two guns

 

[cruzerlou]

The barrel swap on a Remington takes all of three minutes and because bbl are so plenty you can fine used ones cheap . The Mossberg because of the way the bbl attaches to the end of the mag tune your either stuck with a 6 shot gun or a 9 shot gun and then choke tube swaps become a problem . As to swapping out bbl I did it for years when all I had was one gun, it was all I could afford at the time .
Lou
BTW when deer season is over the M500 has the imp. cyl. choke in it and buck/ slug buck/slug one hell of a home defense shotgun .
The wife likes the 1100 , short stock and softer shooting

 

[Poomwah]

The barrel swap on a Remington takes all of three minutes and because bbl are so plenty you can fine used ones cheap . The Mossberg because of the way the bbl attaches to the end of the mag tune your either stuck with a 6 shot gun or a 9 shot gun and then choke tube swaps become a problem . As to swapping out bbl I did it for years when all I had was one gun, it was all I could afford at the time .
Lou

exactly, I'm not sure why its so hard to believe that we would change barrels.
I have ONE vehicle and several sets of tires for it, I change them accordingly, if I'm going out in the mud, if I'm going to the dunes, if I'm going ice racing. I change the tires.
why not have a shorter barrel for in the house, a longer barrel for birds/squirrels, a slug barrel for deer, etc

 

[cruzerlou]

How bout this for a decanted H.D. shotgun , this is a 16ga that I cut the bbl down and stock and made the comp on it .At indoors rsnges ,this little 5 shot boltaction shotgun is a nasty critter.
Lou






I won't be accidentally runnin no bird shot through this thing :roll: strictly #1 buck and being a tube fed bolt gun the action is super smooth and I can shuck the out real quick like

 

[contender]

Back to one of the key points in the OP's question.
"I would love to have a semi auto for the three gun type shotgunning."

Go to a few 3 gun matches & look at what folks use there. You will see a pattern of what performs reliably by most of the "average" (Not the sponsored) shooters. That will give you a good starting place.

As for the rest of it, good info above.

 

[m657]

A friend just got a Saiga magazine fed 12 g......seems to have features many desire, yet feels clunky & rather primitive in my hands.

As an old Cowboy Action participant, my comfort zone with a model 97 or a proper SxS has served well enough. Not being a bird hunter & too geezered up for the likes of 3 gun I simply don't have the 'one serves all my needs' performance as OP describes.

Good luck.

And thanks to cruserlou for some marvelous photos!

 

[cruzerlou]

The only bad thing about the Saigs's is that they. can no longer be imported.
This has Driven the price of they way beyond what their worth + questional reliability and lack of parts,I.M.H.O. their no longer a valid choice for a working gun.
Their regulated to the realm of the collectors.
Lou

 

[toysoldier]

Cruzerlou makes a good point, well-documented with photos. I have a similar setup. It started with a BPS that I found for $180 at a pawn shop. It had a vent-rib barrel with a screw-in Improved Cylinder choke. At gun shows and online, I acquired modified, full, turkey and coyote chokes, sling swivels, and an Ithaca-made rifled slug barrel. I have about $400 in it total at this time.
The BPS, with bottom load/eject and a tang safety, is fully ambidextrous, an important point for use by several members of the household.

 

[nvbirdman]

With a modern semi-auto shotgun, reliability is NOT a consideration.
And as far as forgetting to switch back to a home defense gun, if you're looking down the barrel of a 12ga, it doesn't matter if it's loaded with #9 birdshot, 00Buck, or a slug, it's going to open you up.

 

[ronto]

I don't like to complicate things. Keep it simple, Mossberg 500 is good enough for hunting and HD. Pump is more reliable, that's why LEO's and the military use it.

 

[powder smoke]

Exactly Ron, not that complicated, In a perfect one can have as many shotguns as they want or need.
That is not always the case, by a decent pump that you can use in the field and Home. When your budget
allows get another and dedicate as HD or field use. Gotta start somewhere it is not a perfect world.

+ 1 on the Mossberg Reliable and not a budget buster! :) ps

 

[6gun]

Since the OP is looking for a semi-auto I would recommend the "Winchester Super X3" fastest shot gun on the planet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_wMl87afRU Models start in the $900's

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

I know nothing of 3-gun competition, but the years I spent as a competitive trap and skeet shooter lead me to point to Contender's advice: go to a few matches and see what's being used. Competitive gunners tend not to stick with "problem children" very long!

For the HD/hunting thing, I see no problem with multiple barrels. Most of us don't get to spend nearly as many days a year hunting as the number of days we might have "needs" at home. Swapping a barrel on any of the guns I've owned or used with interchangeable barrels is a non-issue. Come home from hunting, clean gun, swap barrel. Swap barrel, leave home, go hunting. Lather, rinse, repeat. What's the problem?

If one wants an auto, the Remington 1100/11-87 is a time tested gun. Being gas operated, it's like all the other gas guns and needs to be kept rather clean for best reliability. The weak link in the design is a rubber O-ring that should be renewed periodically, too. It's cheap, and an annual replacement's not gonna break ya. They've been a favorite on both trap and skeet fields for decades as well as in the field.

Karl's suggestion to look at Benelli is a good one, too. Their autos are recoil operated, and from what I've seen of them in the field don't get grumpy at the least little thing. A buddy's shot a Super Black Eagle I for several years now, and it runs everything from 2 3/4" dove loads to 3 1/2" waterfowl loads without any adjustment changes or complaints. Benelli's autos are closer to the top end of the price scale, but seem to be good values.

The Super-X 3 seems to be doing well so far in some of the "torture test" videos, like Argentine dove hunting. I understand it's a Turkish gun, so it's pretty reasonable price wise. I'm not an "early adopter" so it's not on my list of top guns to look at. Yet?

Rick C

 

[gramps]

I have a Winchester 1200, I paid $250 back in the early 90's. It has been my do all shotgun. Last couple of years shoulder problems have caused me to think about a semi-auto also. Man are they expensive! Now my shoulder problems have cleared up, and it isn't a priority anymore, but would like one for the future. Semi-auto for home defense-poor mans machine gun!
gramps

 

[737tdi]

thanks guys.
Karl,I really appreciate the advice, but I disagree. I think with nothing more than a barrel change, a 12 gauge could serve just as well as a home defense as it could as a hunting tool.
Lou,
I am not at all against the 1100, I didn't realized that there was so much available for it. unfortunately I can't see any picture in your post though.

Really, You are going to change the barrel for home defense? Trust me here, you aren't going to do it. You need one gun for the home and one gun for hunting. If you want a gun for hunting??? Buy a turkey/bird gun. Home protection, buy a Benelli. JMO. Go on, you aren't going to change them. Trust me here. You aren't Or you will forget and try to kill a guy with birdshot.

Please, split home protection and hunting. They are not even close to being the same. Use one for home and hunt with the other..JMO.

Karl

Yes, by all means I would change barrels, you act like that's a weird, new concept. What is so odd about having one barrel on it for home defense, then swapping out a barrel if I go hunting? or having more than one hunting barrel depending on what I hunt. People have been doing it for a really long time and I'm not sure why it seems like such an odd idea to you.
try to kill the guy with birdshot? why would I do that? because you think I'm not competent enough or maybe I'm too lazy to change a barrel? Even if I left a field barrel on, why do you think I'd be trying to use bird shot?
I don't NEED two guns, and most importantly, I don't WANT two guns

No, you are misunderstanding what I said. OK you don't want two guns, that is fine. What I was saying is "are you going to change the barrels?" If you get home from shooting, hunting, competition are you going to set the shotgun down, clean it tomorrow and maybe swap the barrels then? Or are you going to immediately to swap the barrels. See my point? A home defense shotgun needs to be available 24/7. You don't get to pick the time that someone is going to break into your home. See my point? Most people will get home from bird hunting late and put everything down and get to the cleaning tomorrow, that home defense shotgun isn't ready. I am not paranoid but if it is a home defense weapon then it is only that if it is ready for that. JMO.



Karl

 

[Don Lovel]

I grew up quail & dove & waterfowl hunting in western Oklahoma in the 50's. Back then the old men my grandpa and dad hunted with used Model 12 Winchesters, Remington Model 50, Big receiver Browning Autos and I used a model 1897 WInchester that was a solid frame factory riot with a gunsmith installed Lyman thread on modified choke tube which also made it legal length.
We hunted crows in cold winter weather in the Ft Cobb lake area of Oklahoma, we shot reloads, some of them pretty worn out crimps and such, I have seen a big Browning go full auto over a loose piece of #7 1/2 shot in the trigger mechanism. I have seen a beautiful Franchi 20 ga auto just get so cold the alloy frame shrunk and the bolt slowed down to a snail crawl. I have shucked so many reloads through that old 97 in a day I wore out my pump arm as well as bruised up a right shoulder so bad over a weekend that Monday at school I could not write with it
That Model 97 never misses a beat to this day. Great gun for home defense, stored tube loaded, chamber empty, hammer on half cock, you must know how to unlock the action to pump a round into the chamber, pretty safe around young kids. And for intruders, the sound of a Model 97 chambering a round is better than any other shotgun made
RATTLE SNAP CLACK THUMP, nothing says LOADED 12 GA in the dark better than a Winchester Model 97

 

[Xsales]

I am only concerned with home defense so my go to shotgun is a Mossberg 500A with pistol grip - pump

No argument to me what kind of shell is coming out of the tube, all will tear you apart
whether chest, shoulder, gut or leg, all get ripped wide open when she hits

 

[gramps]

Let me see. The main military rifle is semi auto, the main handgun is semi auto. So why do people think a semi auto shotgun is unreliable?
gramps

 

[6gun]

Let me see. The main military rifle is semi auto, the main handgun is semi auto. So why do people think a semi auto shotgun is unreliable?
gramps

I don't understand it either I have a Winchester 1400 semi auto I bought new in 1979 it's a bird getter never had a bit of trouble with it and it still works good as new but yet I see lots of reviews on line bad mouthing 1400's.

 

[ronto]

Let me see. The main military rifle is semi auto, the main handgun is semi auto. So why do people think a semi auto shotgun is unreliable?
gramps

I'm not saying a semi-auto anything is UN-reliable. A pump shotgun is LESS prone to problems as is a revolver.

 

[6gun]

Let me see. The main military rifle is semi auto, the main handgun is semi auto. So why do people think a semi auto shotgun is unreliable?
gramps

I'm not saying a semi-auto anything is UN-reliable. A pump shotgun is LESS prone to problems as is a revolver.

Not to offend you in any way but that is just option a pump is less prone to problems, they are known to problems of their own, still lots of parts that wear out and break.

 

[737tdi]

Let me see. The main military rifle is semi auto, the main handgun is semi auto. So why do people think a semi auto shotgun is unreliable?
gramps

I'm not saying a semi-auto anything is UN-reliable. A pump shotgun is LESS prone to problems as is a revolver.

Not to offend you in any way but that is just option a pump is less prone to problems, they are known to problems of their own, still lots of parts that wear out and break.

Come on now 6gun: You know that is a defensive answer. Full auto shotguns are absolutely more prone to malfunctions then a pump. Full mechanical versus a gas operated nasty operating system. I did not argue the point either way. My point was if you want a home defense gun then buy one. If you want a turkey gun/bird gun then buy one.


I have never tried to piss someone off but trying to meld a bird gun into a home defense gun is ludicrous. Hell the stock is longer then my Benelli home gun. Don't mean to make the OP mad but he is wrong. They are not interchangeable IMO because you are not going to keep that Remington in home defense mode. You are going to leave it in bird mode and that makes a horrible home defense weapon. Buy a handgun if you are wanting only one shotgun.

As far as a comment that was made about using birdshot, yes it will work for home protection but not recommended because of vital kill. A shotgun round will expand at a set distance whether it be birdshot, buckshot or buck and ball. It does not matter. It is just that if you are using small shot the damage is small and penetration is less (less mass means less energy that equates to less penetration). Yes the pattern between birdshot and buck and ball will be the same but penetration is extremely different.


To the OP, if you do buy one shotgun for home and hunting (IMO wrong) please pattern the shotgun and the shells. Know exactly where these pellets are flying. There are several good examples on you tube and several on various gun sights. I ain't new to shotguns my friend. They have been with me my whole life.


Karl

 

[6gun]

I'm not saying a semi-auto anything is UN-reliable. A pump shotgun is LESS prone to problems as is a revolver.

Not to offend you in any way but that is just option a pump is less prone to problems, they are known to problems of their own, still lots of parts that wear out and break.

Come on now 6gun: You know that is a defensive answer. Full auto shotguns are absolutely more prone to malfunctions then a pump. Full mechanical versus a gas operated nasty operating system. I did not argue the point either way. My point was if you want a home defense gun then buy one. If you want a turkey gun/bird gun then buy one.


I have never tried to piss someone off but trying to meld a bird gun into a home defense gun is ludicrous. Hell the stock is longer then my Benelli home gun. Don't mean to make the OP mad but he is wrong. They are not interchangeable IMO because you are not going to keep that Remington in home defense mode. You are going to leave it in bird mode and that makes a horrible home defense weapon. Buy a handgun if you are wanting only one shotgun.

As far as a comment that was made about using birdshot, yes it will work for home protection but not recommended because of vital kill. A shotgun round will expand at a set distance whether it be birdshot, buckshot or buck and ball. It does not matter. It is just that if you are using small shot the damage is small and penetration is less (less mass means less energy that equates to less penetration). Yes the pattern between birdshot and buck and ball will be the same but penetration is extremely different.


To the OP, if you do buy one shotgun for home and hunting (IMO wrong) please pattern the shotgun and the shells. Know exactly where these pellets are flying. There are several good examples on you tube and several on various gun sights. I ain't new to shotguns my friend. They have been with me my whole life.


Karl

Still just your opinion, all I know is I have four shot guns at my house the pump is broken and needs parts it's also the newest gun.

If you want a shot gun less prone to problems like a revolver go with a double barrel, any shot gun that feeds out of a magazine with springs and moving parts can break.

 

[dougader]

My 1187 never skipped a beat whether hunting doves, ducks, pheasants or geese. Same for shooting trap, skeet or sporting clays.

At home I put on a magazine tube extension, changed the choke and loaded up with buckshot. The gas operated gun sure made it a soft-shooting 12 gauge, too.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

Hi,
The Super-X 3 seems to be doing well so far in some of the "torture test" videos, like Argentine dove hunting. I understand it's a Turkish gun, so it's pretty reasonable price wise. I'm not an "early adopter" so it's not on my list of top guns to look at. Yet?

Rick C

Rick I belive you are incorrect about the Super X3 being a Turkish gun. Beretta bought Benelli, Stoeger and others a few years ago and many of those are made in Turkey, but Winchester (and Browning) is an FN gun. They do have some shotguns made by Miroku, but not Turkey. You are right the Super X3 is a fine shotgun, I have one along with a Browning, and a Stoeger 3500 (similar to a Super Black eagle) and all are nice guns. I'm not really a Remington guy but if I were and wanted one I would take a hard look at the Remington Versa Max. That has put Remington back on the map for semi autos.

I don't do the 3 gun matches so don't really feel I can speak to that. I think Ty nailed it, when he said go and check them out and see what people are using.