pitted or chipped recoil plate on Redhawk

[MikeMcD]

Anyone ever hear of a recoil plate (the round cylinder like thing around the firing pin) pitting or chipping? My newest 44 mag Ruger revolver has some flaking chunks missing there, and it is growing. I am not firing the gun until resolution and am waiting response from Ruger, considering that it is new...
I have not fired heavy loads with the exception of Winchester (one white box, not really heavy) and one box of Remington 180s (hot but not too bad). Handloads have been easy going Universal loads and a few Titegroup loads. These are range loads with low pressure and low velocity.
These are also fast burning. I wonder if a fast powder could somehow leak and burn the recoil plate..... nahhh could not be.

Anyone know anything about this stuff?

 

[J Miller]

Yeah it could be. I bought some Fiocchi LP primers some years ago and the cup must have been brittle or thin or something because they would rupture at the corner and leak high pressure gas. Before I realized what was happening the firing pin bushing on both my S&W 25-5 and OM BH was pock marked by little miniature cuts caused by the burning gasses.
I'm not saying that is what your problem is or was, just that it could happen.

Have you checked all the cases for damaged or leaking primers?

Joe

 

[MikeMcD]

On some, supposedly lower pressure loads I see some of the sooty black stuff that indicates some leakage. Only with the Titegroup loads. Nothing with higher pressure loads with AA#9 or Longshot...

The Universal loads have no leakage. The primers are WLP Winchester Large Pistol.

 

[J Miller]

Mike,

If you've got leakage then there's something wrong. Either the cases have stretched primer pockets or the primers are out of spec or the load is too hot. But somethings not right.

I've never used Titegroup so I can't say anything about it. But I've used other powders from cat sneeze loads to OMG my wrist hurts loads and other than the Fiocchi primers never had one leak on me.

Joe

 

[MikeMcD]

These are pretty new cases and have not been pushed with pressure. The primers may be partly to blame. Matched with a faster burning powder, maybe the primer leaked for an instant before expanding to seal...

WLPs are a pinch hotter and the Titegroup burns fast. I think the Titegroup loads will be unloaded and that stuff will go for the 45 acp and 9mm.

Only the recoil plat is marred, not the frame. So maybe the plate is weak too.

But I agree, something is out of whack.

No leakage on AA#9, Longshot, or Universal. ONLY a few with Titegroup.

I wonder what ruger will say.

 

[MikeMcD]

Ruger was really good. I submitted my concern on Saturday online at their website and had a response first thing today (Monday). I called and explained the issue and requested a shipping label. No big deal. They ordered a UPS pickup for tomorrow and hope to get it back "pretty soon"...

More soon.

 

[MikeMcD]

Well, the Redhawk has been back TWICE to New Hampshire visiting Ruger... It is back again and looks good. I am abandoning Winchester WLP primers and Remington brass (with its beveled primer pocket).

I am hearing a lot now about Winch WLP primer leakage and the damage this does to metal... I need to resolve this and settle on loads that won't hurt this rather brittle and fragile handgun. I know it is reputed as durable, but I have not seen that with this one. Why would top brand name stuff wreck the recoil plate with light pooter loads?

 

[contender]

THis is interesting as a lot of folks use Win WLP primers w/o any problems. Iuse it in my 1911 competition loads. Mild and effective. I wonder what is causing your problem?

 

[J Miller]

I've had no such problems with Winchester primers. All I can say is if you did you might have gotten a bad batch.
I'll keep using Win primers as long as they keep selling them.

Joe

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Interesting!! Maybe the primer pockets are reamed-out or something. What kind of case prep do you do? I would change both the brass and the primers and start over. If that solves the problem great, then maybe if you want, try one or the other of the components in question and see what happens while observing closely. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

 

[powder smoke]

Yeah it could be. I bought some Fiocchi LP primers some years ago and the cup must have been brittle or thin or something because they would rupture at the corner and leak high pressure gas. Before I realized what was happening the firing pin bushing on both my S&W 25-5 and OM BH was pock marked by little miniature cuts caused by the burning gasses.
I'm not saying that is what your problem is or was, just that it could happen.

Have you checked all the cases for damaged or leaking primers?

Joe

Yup I did too! Fiocchi 410 shells out of my Bond derringer. Damn things bluw a holle lear thru the primer. No dmage to gun or shooter. I don't like forieng ammo I bought it cause of price never again. ps

 

[MikeMcD]

Yep, I have junked the brass: Remingtons. Also, I will only use Winchester WLP with Winchester brass. Notice how Winchester brass supports the primer right up to the case face and compare to Remingtons which are beveled at the top...
Additionally, These Remingtons were from the 180 grain HOT factory loads. My idle speculation is now musing over the possibility that the brass was stretched by the factory load and unfit for reloading. Done with them.
No failure of the primers themselves as in holes allowing the blast through, but leakage around the primer (WLP).
Starline and Winchester seem to support the primers better, maybe with a slightly smaller (or different) primer pocket. These have shown no evidence of leakage. I will now use CCI LPs and the few loads that work without damage and avoid the adventures of hot or destructive stuff.
CASE PREP: Tumble and clean out the pocket and inspect the little hole.

The leakage with Titegroup was with Rem brass. The Titegroup in Starline and Winch brass seems fine... Still, I will go back to Universal, Longshot and AA#9.

You guys like AA#9?

 

[Jimbo357mag]

I like Accurate #9 in the 44 mag very much. A fine ball powder that measures easily, has almost the same velocity of H-110 and is more versatile. (can be downloaded some) It is very accurate on target as well. I use it in rifles and revolvers. 8) 8)

...Jimbo

 

[DGW1949]

I've fired thousands of long-distance match loads out of a 30-06 Rifle, all of which had chamfered primer-pocket holes.
I've fired thousands of pistol/revolver loads which were lit with Winchester WLP primers.
I couldn't begin to guess how many .38s and .45's that I've reloaded 'n fired over the years while using Winchester, Federal or CCI primers, and about any USA-made brass you can name.
I aint never had a single gas leak at the primer-to-case juncture on any of them.
That said though, I HAVE discarded a lot of cases because the new primer "felt" loose while seating it. What that has taught me is that primer pockets can/do stretch, and/or just plain wear out, and that some are bigger than others right from the get-go. FWIW, most of the cases that I've discarded due to enlarged pockets have been Remington. And lately, some of those were tossed after only one re-loading.

Other stuff to note;

Primers and/or brass can be expected to vary a hair, here or there, from year to year and/or lot to lot. Sometimes, the variances found in each just don't make for a good combination.

The compostion of the brass can also be expected to vary a bit year to year and/or lot. The manufactuters trending towards useing recycled raw materials these days aint doing us any favors neither.

All primers move fore and aft when the gun is fired. In fact, high school physics says that the instant the charge is set off, it's the (lighter) primer that moves first, after which the brass slams backwards which re-seats it. Common sense says that being's how the steel primer cup is harder than the brass pocket, it's the brass pocket that wears.

It is impossable to equaly convert an American measurement to metric measurement. What that means here is that if you're using a foriegn made primer in an American case, odds are that it's either going to be a hair big for the hole, or a hair small. Based on the problems that's been mentioned with Fiocchi primers, I would be surprized if they weren't a hair small.

I don't know if any of this helps with the problem at hand or not.
I'm just offering it up as something to chew on.

DGW